Citi Select - ATO payments

[cove]

I rebalanced Mrscove's Kris points by using her Westpac Amex. A dozen payments later and her account is back in great shape.
It was a once in 18 months re-balancing to make certain we have 12 nominees who can fly this year off our two accounts.
The ATO helped lower the cost to half a cent a point and of course I prefer using Select for the rest of the year.

 

[Newk]

I see your point - not sure I agree that they're "unlikely to have an issue with [using it for ATO payments if the card is also being used for everyday spend]", if they decide to crack down on the practice though. YMMV

indeed IF they do a general crackdown you are undoubtedly correct: ATO payments will be weeded out electronically and we'll all be for the ditch.
IF they get annoyed at people JUST using the card for agricultural amounts of ATO payments then MAYBE lots of other use will help.

So we cannot cover the general crackdown by one cc company other than by having alternate cards. But we can cover against the second possibility by mixing in other transactions. Again I am happy to state that that may be an unfounded assumption on my behalf, but is in part based on the experience of the WW card holders.

I work somewhere that I have to be continuously assessing multiple potential risks and having pathways to cover them. What I am attempting to do here.

I guess I stick by my approach to ATO payments. And I don't think I ever mentioned "hiding" the ATO payments. I think the terminology was "mixed in with a flurry of other payments"
as always YMMV...I love that term

regards

 

[guy0369]

G'day Folks,

This is my first post, so like many before me I must congratulate you all for not only providing some great information for those who fly/travel stupid amounts, but also for posting without the use of puerile invective or demeaning language. It seems to be a very collegiate attitude which is extremely refreshing.

If I'm right in summarising that you're not supposed to get any reward from using the Citi Select card for ATO payments, I am interested to know whether you know of a card with good rewards that you can use (without fear!). Already have Amex Plat, but as you all know the surcharge on ATO payments doesn't make it worthwhile. So I'm probably looking for a Visa/MC with which you can make ATO payments and still get points. Does such a card exist, even with high annual fees?

 

[Newk]

G'day Folks,

This is my first post, so like many before me I must congratulate you all for not only providing some great information for those who fly/travel stupid amounts, but also for posting without the use of puerile invective or demeaning language. It seems to be a very collegiate attitude which is extremely refreshing.

If I'm right in summarising that you're not supposed to get any reward from using the Citi Select card for ATO payments, I am interested to know whether you know of a card with good rewards that you can use (without fear!). Already have Amex Plat, but as you all know the surcharge on ATO payments doesn't make it worthwhile. So I'm probably looking for a Visa/MC with which you can make ATO payments and still get points. Does such a card exist, even with high annual fees?

welcome to AFF. you are going to have a wonderful time and "waste" a lot of time. Snerk.

see here:

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....ion/ato-tax-office-payments-credit-17109.html

 

[guy0369]

welcome to AFF. you are going to have a wonderful time and "waste" a lot of time. Snerk.

see here:



Thanks Newk. I had seen that thread, and read about 20 of the 100+ pages (so you're already spot on with 'wasting' time on this forum!!). Was hoping someone who may have followed it all the way through might be able to tell me whether there are good alternatives to the Citi Select. BTW, I also saw your separate thread on the Westfield XS, but I don't think I have the patience for the small limit. Thoughts?

 

[Newk]

welcome to AFF. you are going to have a wonderful time and "waste" a lot of time. Snerk.

see here:



Thanks Newk. I had seen that thread, and read about 20 of the 100+ pages (so you're already spot on with 'wasting' time on this forum!!). Was hoping someone who may have followed it all the way through might be able to tell me whether there are good alternatives to the Citi Select. BTW, I also saw your separate thread on the Westfield XS, but I don't think I have the patience for the small limit. Thoughts?

ok then, a summary as I see it. May not be for you and seek your own advice . When I get things wrong people will be sure to correct me
You seem to be able to pay tax and get points with all cards (sorry, not Diners) that award points. There is a fee which is greater with Amex. The "best" Amex cards get 1.5 QFF points per dollar. The best currently available visa/mastercards give 1ppd (QFF)
there are some variations with programs other than QFF, and even with QFF (see threads about citi business gold and citi points match)
Nearly ALL T and C say that business expenses don't get points. There is discussion about what a "business expense" actually is.

Given that there are 100 pages of discussion out there, this will post can barely touch the surface.
one suggestion I can make is not to make any waves with your cc company. Don't ring them and ask. You may get confused and so might they. Read thoroughly through ALL of AFF, believe most of it and come to your own conclusions.

best wishes and welcome again to AFF.

 

[guy0369]

ok then, a summary as I see it. May not be for you and seek your own advice . When I get things wrong people will be sure to correct me
You seem to be able to pay tax and get points with all cards (sorry, not Diners) that award points. There is a fee which is greater with Amex. The "best" Amex cards get 1.5 QFF points per dollar. The best currently available visa/mastercards give 1ppd (QFF)
there are some variations with programs other than QFF, and even with QFF (see threads about citi business gold and citi points match)
Nearly ALL T and C say that business expenses don't get points. There is discussion about what a "business expense" actually is.

Given that there are 100 pages of discussion out there, this will post can barely touch the surface.
one suggestion I can make is not to make any waves with your cc company. Don't ring them and ask. You may get confused and so might they. Read thoroughly through ALL of AFF, believe most of it and come to your own conclusions.

best wishes and welcome again to AFF.

Thanks again Newk, that helps. The fact that all CCs are in the same boat re T&C leads me back to Citi Select. It has best conversion rate (to Kris) and has a few benefits thrown in. The threads I've read don't report that anyone has had a problem with Govt charges with Citi, but I've seen problems reported with Woolworths.

 

[cove]

The idea of running with just one credit card is not an ideal situation. In the past 12 months I have used our two different Select Visa cards,our two Amex Ultimate cards, my Woolworths Everyday Rewards MasterCard,a BankWest Platinum capped Visa card ,two Westpac Amex Platinum Kris Flyer cards,a Velocity Amex and two Westpac Platinum Plus Amex Altitude cards.
In the event of a card company changing its policies I can switch to the next best and not be scrambling.
Warehousing points to avoid expiry over at Kris Flyer (3 years) is possible with Citi Select (non Qantas) and Westpac Platinum Plus Amex.
I have not needed to use Cathay nor MH but I believe they are both better than good for availability.
Recently most of our domestic travel has been with Qantas and international has been with Singapore.
We are in our fourth year of this since JS reported the ATO payment trial and since then we have seen an uptick in Government agencies accepting Visa and MasterCards with modest surcharges.
Remember it is a just a game that a number of us are playing to get the best seats on the planes.

 

[wafliron]

The fact that all CCs are in the same boat re T&C leads me back to Citi Select. It has best conversion rate (to Kris) and has a few benefits thrown in.

Assuming your spend justifies the annual fee, definitely go with the Select - it's working for ATO payments right now, so why not make hay while the sun shines? Even if they start enforcing the T&Cs in the future, you can simply switch to another card at that point in time (I suppose there is a risk that they could retroactively "take back" points for ATO payments, but I doubt they would).

I would, however, also follow cove's advice and have a backup card or two though. If/when the Select "doomsday" arrives you don't want to be scrabbling around trying to setup an alternative card when you may have ATO bills due in the very near future.

 

[cove]

Have just bought Coles and Woolworths 5% off gift cards on Select as those Kris points are brilliant. Then there were payroll taxes along the east coast and land tax and shire and water rates everywhere to make life just a little bit sweeter.
I never thought I would be almost halfway paying February taxes by 27th of January but I don't want to be inconvenienced while I am travelling overseas.

 

[ferrariz]

Ill post something here as I know most of how the system works but cant say who I work for or get into more details.

On the transaction monitoring mechanism, banks dont monitor govt transactions by the size nor by the volume of transactions. They do it via MCC codes - Google it. Cant say forsure abt Citi but thats how we do it.

also every bank can quite easily block them, the fact that they dont is that they figure they can earn money from your other spend to offset. One dollar is better than zero dollars. Again, if the interchange rates become too unfavourable, this changes.

Lastly, everything written about each bank, atleast the big 4 as I know, in forums like this is monitored by third party agencies and summarised and given to their customer analysis/insights teams on a weekly/monthly basis. Dont worry about calling in and alerting them, if you talk about it here, they know

 

[Newk]

Ill post something here as I know most of how the system works but cant say who I work for or get into more details.

On the transaction monitoring mechanism, banks dont monitor govt transactions by the size nor by the volume of transactions. They do it via MCC codes - Google it. Cant say forsure abt Citi but thats how we do it.

also every bank can quite easily block them, the fact that they dont is that they figure they can earn money from your other spend to offset. One dollar is better than zero dollars. Again, if the interchange rates become too unfavourable, this changes.

Lastly, everything written about each bank, atleast the big 4 as I know, in forums like this is monitored by third party agencies and summarised and given to their customer analysis/insights teams on a weekly/monthly basis. Dont worry about calling in and alerting them, if you talk about it here, they know

fascinating post, thanks ferrariz. Welcome to AFF. LOL I note you have been here for some time?

 

[ferrariz]

Yup, been around for a while but mostly active on other forums (WP). Didnt want to post here as im too involved with the banking FF industry but I guess I can always post general, non-confidential info here.

 

[cove]

Social media monitoring is definitely being reported as you say.
Citi currently have market leading products and they have started to make progress in the marketplace.
When we enrolled with Select they had less than 2,000 cards issued and Amex Platinum was the biggie.
Now Amex Platinum is on the nose so Citi are getting a luck break.
Cardholders will end up using Select for a wider group of items and that is where they can win.
Now their call centre is improving.

 

[ermen]

Agree. I myself cut up the Amex Platinum Charge and use Citi Select as well. Much better value proposition and great for overseas spend too.

 

[blessed11]

Agree. I myself cut up the Amex Platinum Charge and use Citi Select as well. Much better value proposition and great for overseas spend too.

Great for overseas is an understatement! In South America at the moment, have only pulled out my Centurion Amex for card authorization at the hotels. Everything else has gone through Citi Select !

EDIT: I'm very disappointed. Just 8 months ago my Centurion Amex was the go-to card for overseas spend... until Citi Select entered my wallet. One would think Amex would at least be on par with Citi for their Centurion on overseas transactions. I'm sure many Centurion customers are frequent international travelers.

 

[wafliron]

Ill post something here as I know most of how the system works but cant say who I work for or get into more details.

Thanks for sharing ferrariz, very interesting info.

On the transaction monitoring mechanism, banks dont monitor govt transactions by the size nor by the volume of transactions. They do it via MCC codes - Google it. Cant say forsure abt Citi but thats how we do it.

I'm assuming that a bank could look at transactions in other ways, if they wanted to, though? e.g., Citi could quite easily look at transaction size by merchant if they chose to? Seems like it would be an easy thing to do with any "normal" DB/BI system sitting behind the scenes - but then again I do have some exposure to the craziness that is big-bank IT

also every bank can quite easily block them, the fact that they dont is that they figure they can earn money from your other spend to offset. One dollar is better than zero dollars. Again, if the interchange rates become too unfavourable, this changes.

I certainly hope you're right, and it's not just ignorance (of a specific problem with ATO payments) or (current) unwillingness to piss off customers!

Yup, been around for a while but mostly active on other forums (WP). Didnt want to post here as im too involved with the banking FF industry but I guess I can always post general, non-confidential info here.

If your first post is anything to go by, please do! Welcome to (posting on) AFF.

 

[shifty]

For what it's worth I use my select card 100% for ATO transactions (nothing at all else) about 50-80k per month in one or two transactions and have always had points credited to my QFF account monthly without issue, no phone calls no nothing.

On a side note - I can't see why they would care, they presumably get the same fees from the merchants bank and have the same expense of purchasing QFF points for "business" transactions as they would normal transactions.

 

[ferrariz]

On a side note - I can't see why they would care, they presumably get the same fees from the merchants bank and have the same expense of purchasing QFF points for "business" transactions as they would normal transactions.

Nope, banks get a far reduced merchnant fee from government departments. About half as much than your average joe merchant.

 

[gipps]

For what it's worth I use my select card 100% for ATO transactions

I paid ATO tax bill (personal tax not gst etc for business) using the citi select. Didn't get any points for the transactions. Where as got full points for normal everyday spend? Do you guys think its worth calling up citibank to ask about this or do I just find a new credit card.

If a new credit card is the solution any ideas as to which one? Bearing in mind ATO charges almost 0.5% to use credit so the rewards has to be worth more than this.