Citibank Plus - No Fee No Overseas Transaction Fee Account

[Chicken]

3. You are not comparing apples with apple when discussing the 28 Degrees Card and the Visa Debit procuct from Citibank - Mastercard as the scheme who does the FX conversion changes the transaction into USD before AUD so there is effectively a double conversion. It is my understand that Visa do not do this...

That's not the reason for my comparison. I think you have missed my point.

I'm not comparing whether Visa or MasterCard gives me more EUR for every AUD.

I'm comparing whether Wizard sticks closer to the rate MasterCard sells at, or Citibank sticks closer to the rate Visa sells at. This is why my comparision shows how much "off" is the rate I was sold comparing against the rates of individual card scheme of the respective cards, not comparing the money I got from each of the cards.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Either way I'll be happily using my Citibank plus account to withdraw money from ATMs in Europe in a few weeks and will be making purchases on my 28 Degrees card also. I'll be happier with both outcomes as they are much better than any other card that slugs me 3% and possibly a fee of $5 for withdrawing cash...

Each to their own.

For myself what is best is to:

• withdraw cash via 28 degrees
• make VISA purchases on Citibank Plat earning at 3 points per $, and hence 2 Krisflyer points per $.
  • While the VISA cops hefty fees...as I redeem on J this more than makes up for it and leaves me in the +ve

 

[kdser]

From the 28 Degrees website
How is the foreign exchange rate calculated?
The foreign exchange rate is calculated by MasterCard International on a daily basis according to daily foreign exchange fluctuations. The conversion will consist of two calculations if the transaction is made in foreign currency – it will first be converted to US dollars and then calculated to Australian dollars for listing on your transactions.

From the Visa Website
How does Visa calculate its rate?

Every day, except weekends, Christmas Day and New Year's Day, Visa calculates the rate for the next day's transactions. The Visa rate is selected from a range of rates available in wholesale currency markets or the government-mandated rate in effect one day prior to the applicable central processing date. Visa makes this rate available to issuing banks, which may adjust the rate in billing cardholders. The rate Visa makes available to issuing banks may vary from the rate Visa itself receives.

I think this explains why Visa (Let's assume Citibank passes on whatever rates it gets from Visa) has wider spread than Master Card when Xe.com rates used as middle rates. Visa's rates are determined one day prior to the processing date, whereas Master Card rates are determined on the day. Visa rates are effectively estimated.

 

[serfty]

OK, so doing this for the day before make more sense:

This report was generated by the Credit Card Charges Calculator ™

[TABLE="class: grid, width: 90%"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row1, width: 60%"]Date on transaction receipt:[/TD]
[TD="class: row1"]January [-]30[/-] 29, 2012[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row2"]Amount on transaction receipt:[/TD]
[TD="class: row2"]3,000.00 HKD[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row1"]Mid-market rate for HKD to AUD on 2012.01.30:
(Excluding bank charges)[/TD]
[TD="class: row1"]0.121804[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row2"]Value of transaction in your currency:
(Excluding bank charges)[/TD]
[TD="class: row2"]362.82 AUD[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row1"]Amount shown on credit card statement:[/TD]
[TD="class: row1"]363.23 AUD[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row2"]Your "hidden" fee estimate:[/TD]
[TD="class: row2"]0.00 AUD ( 0.000% )[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: row1"]ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase:[/TD]
[TD="class: row1"]0.41 AUD ( 0.114% ) [-]-2.18 AUD ( -0.597% )[/-][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Still pretty good!

 

[Chicken]

Visa's rates are determined one day prior to the processing date

OK, let's try again.

----------
ATM - Hong Kong - Bank of China
2011 Dec 27 23:50
HKD 200 / AUD 25.45
Value of transaction in your currency: 25.30 AUD
ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase: 0.15 AUD ( 0.613% )
---------
ATM - The Netherlands - Rabobank
2012 Jan 05 12:18
EUR 100 / AUD 127.24
Value of transaction in your currency: 125.00 AUD
ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase: 2.24 AUD ( 1.795% )
----------
ATM - The Netherlands - ING
2012 Jan 06 13:03
EUR 50 / AUD 63.01
Value of transaction in your currency: 62.33 AUD
ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase: 0.68 AUD ( 1.089% )[/QUOTE]
----------
Purchase - Germany
2012 Jan 12
EUR 32.7 / AUD 40.67
Value of transaction in your currency: 40.29 AUD
ACTUAL BANK FEES for this purchase: 0.38 AUD ( 0.936% )

So it hovers around the 1% mark.

 

[kdser]

I am signing up Amex corporate cards on behalf of the organisation that I work for. I happen to notice that Amex also determine exchange rates one day prior to the processing date, plus 2% commission.

 

[beardoc]

This account is going to be a big winner if you can find a Citibank ATM overseas - that means no Citibank ATM surcharge, right? That would make it a winner over withdrawing money from ATMs overseas with the 28 Degrees card.

 

[Chicken]

This account is going to be a big winner if you can find a Citibank ATM overseas - that means no Citibank ATM surcharge, right?

Huh? This Citibank account has no ATM fee regardless where you draw the money from, so it doesn't matter if the ATM you use is Citi or not.

I've used it in HSBC ATMs in couple of countries, Santander in a few countries, etc, all no fee.

 

[beardoc]

Huh? This Citibank account has no ATM fee regardless where you draw the money from, so it doesn't matter if the ATM you use is Citi or not.

I've used it in HSBC ATMs in couple of countries, Santander in a few countries, etc, all no fee.

Many US ATMs will charge a surcharge. That's what I'm talking about. Citibank ATM in the US might mean no surcharge.

 

[one9]

Just to let people know my experience with this account.

I signed up recently as they offer free telegraphic transfers to other countries. I send transfers in AUD and most banks charge between $10-$35 to do this.

I made a transfer in Internet Banking on Monday. I expected it had been sent that day as my account was immediately debited. But today (2 business days later) their Manilla call centre call me to do a security check on the transfer before it is made. I ask about this and they say that this is standard procedure when transfers are made to many countries including Thailand. I clarify will it happen again if I make another transfer to the same person next month and they said yes.

So whilst the international transfers are free, they are slow and clumsy. With other banks, if I transfer by 4pm the transfer will be sent the same day and will arrive late that day or the next day in Thailand. If I was travelling overseas and unable to take the phone call, it would be a real mess. Citibank uses SMS security for their Internet banking so I really think this step is unnecessary. If they really had to do it, they should do it efficiently (ie. call back within 1 hour). Another example of getting what you pay for with Citibank.

 

[one9]

Just to be safe, I made two ATM withdrawls for the same amount on the same day using this Citibank card and also another card (ING Orange Everyday). The ING card also charges no percentage exchange rate commission, but it charges a flat $2.50 fee separately for International withdrawals. Both cards have Visa symbols.

I withdraw 2000 RMB in China.
ING Orange card was charged: $301.37
Citibank card was charged: $301.19

So although the Citibank card was favorable in this instance, if they are both using Visa's exchange rate, I question why the amounts are different.

 

[SIA1A]

I've made quite a large number of transactions using the Citi Plus account Visa debit card while overseas in the US. Each time I have compared the rate that I receive (after adding back local ATM usage fees, if any) with the withdrawal amount shown on my Citi online account. I have then checked the xe.com rate shown on my iPhone at the time of the ATM transaction. At first I was a little surprised - there seemed to be no direct correlation between the xe.com rate and the cash evidence. Then the penny dropped - the rates I have obtained are very close to the xe.com rate shown at about 5pm US Eastern time on the previous day.

Given this, and a somewhat volatile AUD/USD relationship, an arbitrage opportunity arises. Check the xe.com graph: If the value of the AUD has increased overnight, hold off on making ATM withdrawals in the US for a day, otherwise the lower-value rate will be assessed by Citi. Likewise, if the value of the AUD has fallen overnight, go ahead and lock in the rate from the previous day by withdrawing cash pronto.

 

[Stephen65]

So although the Citibank card was favorable in this instance, if they are both using Visa's exchange rate, I question why the amounts are different.

That's only a 0.06% difference. Possibly the exchange rate changed in the period between your two withdrawals.

 

[medhead]

So does this thing have chip and pin?

 

[greenfrog86]

So does this thing have chip and pin?

Nope. Frustratingly Citibank doesn't issue Visa Debit cards with chip and pin...

Therefore it is good for use in ATMs and as many people have the 28 Degrees card, I would recommend using that for purchases, especially in places where you pretty much need chip and PIN (e.g. the UK)

 

[oz_mark]

So does this thing have chip and pin?

Has a PIN, but no chip.

Actually none of my debit cards have chips.

 

[greenfrog86]

Has a PIN, but no chip.

Actually none of my debit cards have chips.

All my Visa Debit or Debit MasterCard cards have chips except this one... ComSec even have chips! Also Westpac, ING, Nab, ANZ, CommBank, HSBC, BankWest....

 

[one9]

That's only a 0.06% difference. Possibly the exchange rate changed in the period between your two withdrawals.

Considering the two transactions were made within 2 minutes of each other, I am not sure this is the case. Although maybe the back end processes of one of the banks update the exchange rate slower than the other bank.

 

[oz_mark]

All my Visa Debit or Debit MasterCard cards have chips except this one... ComSec even have chips! Also Westpac, ING, Nab, ANZ, CommBank, HSBC, BankWest....

My Westpac and ING cards don't!

 

[medhead]

Nope. Frustratingly Citibank doesn't issue Visa Debit cards with chip and pin...

Therefore it is good for use in ATMs and as many people have the 28 Degrees card, I would recommend using that for purchases, especially in places where you pretty much need chip and PIN (e.g. the UK)

Has a PIN, but no chip.

Actually none of my debit cards have chips.

So the debit card is marginal use compared to just getting the normal account transaction card?