Communication breakdown on A380 QF32

[Taezar]

Far scarier is a rejected take off, only been in one of those. On Ansett.

What happens on one of those? They brake, flaps and reverse the engines?

 

[markis10]

What happens on one of those? They brake, flaps and reverse the engines?

Brakes and reverse thrust, flaps are generally left as is (at circa 10 percent AFAIK), below is the A330 list:

--------------------------------------…
THRUST LVRS.................CLOSE
GRD SPLRS....................MAX
RVRS THRUST................MAX
AUTOBRAKES................MAX
if not MANUAL BRAKES..FULL
monitor groundspeed...............
ANNOUNCE 100 KNOTS.........
ANNOUNCE 80 KNOTS..........
ANNOUNCE 60 KNOTS..........
ATC..............................ALERT
prepare evacuation checklist.....
--------------------------------------…

Reasons for RTOs were listed in a FAA document, the data is not current:

25% engine failure
23% wheel tyre problems
12% configuration warning
10% indicator/light
8% crew coordination
7% bird strike
3% ATC initiated
13% other or reason not reported

http://www.faa.gov/other_visit/aviation_industry/airline_operators/training/media/takeoff_safety.pdf

 

[TonyHancock]

Only one aborted take off for me. Departing JNB for PLZ in 1997. Don't remember a thing about. It was a very early flight and I slept through it.

Apparently the Capt picked up on a problem that would have caused issues with landing. We had a nice two hour wait on board whilst the engineering team fixed it all up. :-|

 

[Simsy85]

I've only been in one aborted take-off and it wasn't really one...

We were on the runway at BNE on a DJ flight to DRW, had just squared up for takeoff, when a woman behidn me stands up and starts walking to the front of the 737.

Needless to say, staff freaked out. CSM jumped on the phone. Pilot killed the engines...

Back to the gate and they offloaded her, police came and got her... Interesting flight...

Got free tv for the delay! woohoo

 

[medhead]

I've only been in one aborted take-off and it wasn't really one...

We were on the runway at BNE on a DJ flight to DRW, had just squared up for takeoff, when a woman behidn me stands up and starts walking to the front of the 737.

Had similar on a qantas flight from SYD. Except CSM didn't notice before we were really moving. I saw the the look of shock on the crew's faces, turned around and waved at the lady to stop and get down. She squatted and grabbed both seats I grabbed her arm. Apparently, there was some urgency for the lady, it is a long way to botany bay. I'll never forget lifting off with the lady (ESL) making psssst sounds and spraying motions with one hand while squatting down.

 

[ludoh]

Been in an aborted take off in Frankfurt on Lufthansa. Sitting in J (after an op-up) and we were at full speed (or at least felt like that). Brakes came on and now know that those seatbelts are there for a reason. Explanation was that a "warning light" had come on. After a wait the captain announced that we would give it another go (this comment could be due to English not being his native language).....all went well after that.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

YouTube has many 'missed approach' videos to check out;

YouTube - missed approach

 

[jb747]

Well, let's start this by saying that from a pilot's perspective, EVERY takeoff is an abort, and EVERY landing is a go around. Both are practiced every time you get near the sim, and indeed, some exercises are totally dedicated to them. Both are randomly injected by the sim instructors, so you never know....

Go arounds can be so early in the approach that the passengers don't notice them, to so late, that the aircraft actually touches down.

Aborts can happen any time from the start of the roll, until the aircraft reaches a pre-calculated speed that we call V1. Once that is reached you always go. They are NEVER done from 'full speed' or after nose gear lift off, no matter how many times it is claimed by passengers. A high speed abort is a very high energy undertaking, and will almost certainly result in the tyres deflating. For any abort above 100 knots, (which is normally 30 to 50 knots below V1) I would call out the fire crews, as the brakes will be so hot that they may/will catch fire.

During the abort there are no configuration changes (i.e. flaps stay where they are). Spoilers will automatically deploy, full (available) reverse thrust will be taken, and held until you don't want it any more (as opposed to 70 or so knots normally). The braking system automatically applies maximum pressure to the brakes, and then lets the anti skid system control it from there.

A high speed abort is spectacular, but the hardest abort to handle is with a combination of strong crosswind, wet runway, and, believe it or not, low speed.

Reasons for an abort? Lots. I've only ever had one high speed abort (for real) and that was in a 767 in which the nose gear steering failed, with the wheel offset, and a low speed after the FO lost all of his instrumentation. In the sim though, there will be engine issues of all types. Tyres regularly fail in the sim, but rarely in the aircraft. Basically though, below around 100 knots you stop for anything, and above that only for major issues.

Go arounds. Well, I would be surprised if a major airport (i.e. Sydney, Singapore) didn't see a number of go arounds every day, and lots on days when the weather is poor. They can be initiated by ATC, and that normally happens when they think that separation standards may be infringed. Note that it's a prediction, not that they have been infringed.....the go around normally ensures that they aren't. Places with crossing runways (like Sydney or Melbourne) could have you sent around because the aircraft on the crossing runway is simply too slow to obey his take off clearance (and that could also have him given an ATC instruction to stop as well). In Singapore, the most common issue that I've seen is people who are slow to vacate the runway. ATC expect you off at the first possible spot, and the aircraft behind will be spaced based on that. Miss the expected turnoff, and the following aircraft will likely be given an immediate order to go around. It happens.....probably every day.

From the coughpit though, go arounds can be initiated for all sorts of reasons. Simplistically though, it comes back to the pilot deciding that he's not happy with whatever is happening. It could be a mandated go around, like not having the appropriate visual cues at the end of an approach (the FO calls 'minima', and you have two possible answers 'landing' or 'go around, flaps'), or perhaps not being happy with whatever the conditions are doing to you (shear, gusty crosswinds). Aircraft issues too, will normally result in a go around, as it's much easier to sort out whatever is wrong in slow time.

Procedurally, all that happens in a go around is that an attitude of about 13 degrees is selected (in the 380 anyway), TOGA power is selected, and then the aircraft is cleaned up. The attitude is no different to what was used at take off, but the sudden change in attitude, combined with the large power change, makes people think we are indulging in aerobatics.

How often? Well, when I flew the 767, and did a fair bit of domestic flying, I figured that I did about one go around per year. During my last five years on the 747, I think we had 3 go arounds, one in London (crosswind out of limits), and 2 on the same flight in Melbourne as a nasty front came through (an empty ferry flight). Multiple go arounds aren't all that common, and we do try to avoid them...even if we have the fuel, it's unlikely that we'd try a third time. I've done more go arounds in Sydney than anywhere else.

Oh, and the cameras. I'd have to admit that I'm not a fan of them, especially in gusty, crosswind conditions. You end up with the situation we've had mentioned earlier in the thread, in which a passenger is convinced the pilots don't know what they are doing, because he can't see the runway. Approaching touchdown, the aircraft could have up to 20 degrees of drift...it won't be pointing anywhere near the runway...in a Boeing, that level of drift could actually be held all the way to touchdown, though it will be reduced to less than 5 degrees in an Airbus. On one approach I did a few years ago, my view of the runway was through the FO's window for most of the approach...there was that much drift. I doubt that a camera would have seen the runway at any point prior to touchdown.

 

[Nigelinoz]

Thanks jb747 for one of the most comprehensive,well written posts I have read on AFF.
Well Done.
Cheers
N'oz

 

[Simsy85]

Awesome post. Love reading this sort of stuff!

 

[oz_mark]

Thanks jb747.

Always interesting to read these things....

 

[Alanslegal]

Oh, and the cameras. I'd have to admit that I'm not a fan of them, especially in gusty, crosswind conditions. You end up with the situation we've had mentioned earlier in the thread, in which a passenger is convinced the pilots don't know what they are doing, because he can't see the runway. Approaching touchdown, the aircraft could have up to 20 degrees of drift...it won't be pointing anywhere near the runway...in a Boeing, that level of drift could actually be held all the way to touchdown, though it will be reduced to less than 5 degrees in an Airbus. On one approach I did a few years ago, my view of the runway was through the FO's window for most of the approach...there was that much drift. I doubt that a camera would have seen the runway at any point prior to touchdown.

Great post jb747 - very informative.

Yep I am the one with little fear of flying and as much as the cameras can deceive in certain situations, I still would like them to have them

The view at night during the approach and landing is amazing and the runway lights and everything is pretty cool

 

[ric_melb]

jb747; I really enjoyed reading your thorough explanation. Thanks very much.

 

[Mrmaxwell]

I've done more go arounds in Sydney than anywhere else.

Any particular reason for this? ILS assists in reducing go arounds yes?

Approaching touchdown, the aircraft could have up to 20 degrees of drift...it won't be pointing anywhere near the runway...in a Boeing, that level of drift could actually be held all the way to touchdown, though it will be reduced to less than 5 degrees in an Airbus.

I never thought of the direction the aircraft was facing during crosswind landings...they look pretty complicated from the various YouTube videos however!!

 

[markis10]

Any particular reason for this? ILS assists in reducing go arounds yes?

Sydney does not have the navaid minimas that other airports have for a variety of reasons, and is obviously subject to fog which does not help.

 

[russ]

Err, maybe because he flies into Sydney more often than other airports?

 

[LiamR]

Thanks jb747, I always enjoy reading your reports.

OOL seems to have a fair few go arounds..... or maybe its just me?

This year I've had two, one fairly far out, one on short final.

 

[straitman]

Sydney does not have the navaid minimas that other airports have for a variety of reasons, and is obviously subject to fog which does not help.

Err, maybe because he flies into Sydney more often than other airports?

Or a bit of both of these.

 

[jb747]

Well, I guess I do fly into Sydney a fair bit, although I try as hard as I can to make my flights through Melbourne. Sadly, the company mostly has other ideas.

I've never been around in Sydney because I wasn't visual at the minima off the approach. Sydney is a busy airport, but it has a design that is anything but friendly to the controllers and pilots. It does not have equal length (nearly would do) parallel runways, cross runway operations are used as a matter of course, and it often has runway modes in use that are chosen solely for political reasons. Tailwinds onto short runways is not a safe way to operate....they've gotten away with it so far, but it will eventually cause an accident. Quite a few of the go arounds have been ATC called, mainly due to traffic on the crossing runway not doing exactly as expected.

But, the main reason for my go arounds in Sydney has been windshear. It's often bloody windy, and generally not in any direction that a runway might be pointed.