Computer Check-in System Only "BAD" Seats

[JohnK]

... but on a one hour flight?

Yes even on a 1 hour flight. In March on an ADL-SYD dinner flight I was sitting in the row behind exit row. The lady in front, and I am using the term lady loosely, decided to recline as fully as possible and then fell asleep. The dinner service came around and the FA's did not want to disturb her so I had a very unpleasant time trying to eat dinner. You have seen me and should understand that it is not easy for me to get the tray table down when the person in front is fully reclined.

 

[JohnK]

I'd posit that 1" is not enough to notice unless your legs are already very hard pressed against the seat infront. Perhaps 2 or 3" would be noticed, but not 1".

I am almost certain that if you sat a person down in a 30" inch pitch seat for 1 hour and then sat them down in a 31" inch pitch seat for 1 hour and told them nothing they would not notice the difference.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

I'd posit that 1" is not enough to notice unless your legs are already very hard pressed against the seat infront

... or the pax in front is reclined.

I'm big and tall enough that I notice the difference in that range.

 

[Dave Noble]

Yes even on a 1 hour flight. In March on an ADL-SYD dinner flight I was sitting in the row behind exit row. The lady in front, and I am using the term lady loosely, decided to recline as fully as possible and then fell asleep. The dinner service came around and the FA's did not want to disturb her so I had a very unpleasant time trying to eat dinner. You have seen me and should understand that it is not easy for me to get the tray table down when the person in front is fully reclined.

Easily fixed by checking in with a human and requesting the exit row yourself. I have never had a time when I last was unable to get the exit row on a domestic flight when travelling economy

Dave

 

[serfty]

Let's be done with Pitch!

As has previosly posted, pitch is not the be all and end all definition of available room.

Here's a link to an article from The SMH last year: Sitting ducks.

Sitting ducks
By Jenna Reed
July 16, 2005
Sydney Morning Herald
...
The way airlines measure and advertise the distance between the rows is somewhat misleading (it's also always stated in inches). For them it's the distance from one point on a row to the identical point on the next row - for example, from a point on the back of the seat in front of you to the same point on the back of your seat upright.

This means it includes the thickness of the seat back itself, perhaps seven to 10 centimetres or more, which is uninhabitable space. So when pitch distance figures are thrown around, remember that this includes space that you won't physically be able to occupy.

There is a legitimate reason for the airlines doing this, according to Dave Hedges, from the website http://www.uk-air.net. "Some airlines have thicker seat backs than others, and seat backs get worn and compress over time, so measuring the seat pitch distance this way is more accurate as it's from one fixed point to another."

Most airlines quote 31 to 34 inches as the standard pitch distance in their economy cabins. Asian airlines tend to be at the upper end of those figures, while the budget carriers in Europe, America and now Australia have squeezed them even more to 30 inches or less.

One of the main problems with pitch distance figures is that they can vary within the economy cabin of an aircraft, and between different aircraft of the same type within an airline's fleet.

What got me interested in this topic was an experience my husband and I endured late last year when we flew with Emirates to Dubai. We flew in both directions in an Airbus 340-500 series and had been looking forward to going with Emirates because of its good reputation across all classes, including economy, where we were seated.

But on boarding the aircraft and locating our seats, our spirits nosedived when we saw how close the rows were to each other. I whipped out a tape measure and checked the distance from the back of the seats in front of us to the front of our seat backs (not pitch distance in the correct sense, but a measurement of our usable airspace) and it appeared to be a mere 62 centimetres or 24.8 inches. On our return flight, in the same type of aircraft, the distance had grown by five centimetres. Apparently such discrepancies are widespread, but only in economy.
...

I think a different term should be used in line with the with the following from Dave Noble: "When measuring the space available ( i.e. from front of 1 seat cushion to the back of ... seat), an inch makes quite a difference. ...".

SCTTBOS

 

[jakeseven7]

Seat pitch is what seat pitch does. It is measured on the floor. e.g. from one of the mounting points to the equivalent mounting point for the seat in front. It does not take into account the effective thickness of a seat. I have never flown DJ, but am led to believe their seating is 3-5 cm thicker than Qantas' "Slimline" Seat.

As Dave Noble noted it's really the distance one has that is important:.

I think this may explain why DJ and JQ feel so claustrophobic to me, and why my latest trip on a NZ 320 with similar big padded chairs was a real nightmare. Give me slimline cloth over bulky leather anyday.

 

[crazydave98]

For the record, the back cusions of ours and Qantas seats are the same, as are the seat pitch. Happy to show anyone the LOPAs (engineering layout diagrams) for our B737-800 relative to Qantas - we have identical configurations from the overwing emergency exits back. In front of the wing, we actually have greater seat pitch than Qantas (hint - left hand side forward of the wings is the best place to sit on us) - theirs is about an inch less to fit in the business class rows, extra galley space and coat lockers. If I can manage I'll post the comparison but not sure how big graphics files work on AFF.

The reason JQ feels cramped is that their average seat pitch is 1-2 inches less than ours and Qantas. The back of the 'bus is down to 29" on some rows and mostly 30-31". We're 33-31 on the 737-800s.

cheers

CrazyDave98

 

[Mal]

CrazyDave98,

The DJ website used to actually have fairly basic seating diagrams a long time ago where they showed DJ 737-800 vs QF 737-800.

That mysteriously went missing during a revamp around the introduction of Blue Zone / Blue somethingoranother.

Any chance you could resurrect that diagram? Very basic, but shows the point.

(Then again, I'd love to see the LOPA's being the pseudo plane freak that I am! )

 

[aspro2]

I've been in rows 2 and 3 frequently and the difference is both visible and tangible. I'd swear it is, in fact, more than an inch more than seats further aft.

 

[crazydave98]

You're right, it is more than an inch - seat pitch in a Virgin Blue B737-800 varies up to 3 inches. See diagrams
http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/virgin-blue-velocity/seat-diagrams-side-by-side-7313.html

 

[jazzamcc]

My first post!!

I always use Web checkin for DJ. It nearly always gives me seat 2F (my favourite seat). On a few rare occassions it has given me somewhere else, but ALWAYS within Zone 1.
The amount of legroom in Row 2 (on 738's) is amazing. It is more like 33 or 34 inches. Would be great on a flight across to Perth!!

Last time I flew, I decided to try the back of the bus for change in Row 30. Was a bit more cramped, but was acceptable, as it was only SYD-MEL. Came back next day with Jetstar from AVV, and it was really bad. I wanted to get off that plane as soon as I could. The legroom was a disgrace. I was seated in Row 29, and not sure, if like Virgin, if there is less legroom at the back.
I am, flying NZ in Sep/Oct to LAX, and looking forward to the 34" legroom in cattle on the 744's.

 

[Yada Yada]

My first post!!

Welcome to AFF, jazzamcc.

I always use Web checkin for DJ. It nearly always gives me seat 2F (my favourite seat). On a few rare occassions it has given me somewhere else, but ALWAYS within Zone 1. The amount of legroom in Row 2 (on 738's) is amazing. It is more like 33 or 34 inches. Would be great on a flight across to Perth!!

What type of fare do you usually purchase on DJ?

Came back next day with Jetstar from AVV, and it was really bad. I wanted to get off that plane as soon as I could. The legroom was a disgrace. I was seated in Row 29, and not sure, if like Virgin, if there is less legroom at the back.

I'm curious to hear what AVV is like, e.g. facilities, etc.

 

[Yada Yada]

For the record, the back cusions of ours and Qantas seats are the same, as are the seat pitch. Happy to show anyone the LOPAs (engineering layout diagrams) for our B737-800 relative to Qantas - we have identical configurations from the overwing emergency exits back. In front of the wing, we actually have greater seat pitch than Qantas (hint - left hand side forward of the wings is the best place to sit on us) - theirs is about an inch less to fit in the business class rows, extra galley space and coat lockers. If I can manage I'll post the comparison but not sure how big graphics files work on AFF.

The reason JQ feels cramped is that their average seat pitch is 1-2 inches less than ours and Qantas. The back of the 'bus is down to 29" on some rows and mostly 30-31". We're 33-31 on the 737-800s.

As always Dave, thanks for posting and for clearing up the misconceptions.

And thank God for Virgin Blue.

 

[crazydave98]

I just finished a comparison of ours and Qantas engineering drawings and discovered we actually have greater pitch aft of the overwing exits as well because Qantas have a coat locker wedged between the toilets and the rear galley. I have put the diagrams side by side (mirrored) and the comparison is very interesting indeed. I put them in a new thread
http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/virgin-blue-velocity/seat-diagrams-side-by-side-7313.html

cheers

CrazyDave98

 

[jazzamcc]

Welcome to AFF, jazzamcc.


What type of fare do you usually purchase on DJ?


I'm curious to hear what AVV is like, e.g. facilities, etc.

I always purchase Special fares eg $49-$69 airfares, yet I get front of the bus. Even on a Monday morning SYD-MEL flight, I was able to sit in Row 2 on a cheap $59 fare, while some poor business guy probably had to pay $200 or so for a more cramped seat.
With CrazyDave98's diagrams and analysis, It looks as though I am one of the lucky ones that get the 33" inch legroom. So it looks like Row 2-5 on 738's usually have the extra inch.
I did travel back from MEL in january, and was actually seated in Row 5, and when I got up to leave, noticed that Row 6 had alot less legroom.

AVV is very basic.It reminds me of the old Express terminal in SYD. I think only 6 check-in counters, and a service desk that does great business!! Love hearing the sound of the cash register going. "That will be $42 for your overweight bagge sir. We do take credit cards, eftpos and cash. How would you like to pay?"
One security screening point, and one largish departures area with a coffee shop. Gets very crowded when two flights are leaving close together. They did expand the departures area, but I think another expansion is on the cards.
I didn't arrive into AVV, so not too sure how arrivals go. But we did have to drop off the rental car keys into the arrivals "shed". The was one conveyer belt, and was quite large actually for an arrivals area.

 

[NM]

The reason JQ feels cramped is that their average seat pitch is 1-2 inches less than ours and Qantas. The back of the 'bus is down to 29" on some rows and mostly 30-31". We're 33-31 on the 737-800s.

A great reason to continue my JQ virginity . The only time I will consider JQ is in Starclass on an international route where I have no real alternative. 29" even on a 1 hour flight is not my idea of comfort. Even a greyhound bus has better than 29" pitch.

 

[Davos]

So the question is, how does Jazzamcc get the 1-9 rows options using web check in? - I fly DJ up/down the east coast almost weekly and use the web check in for ease, i fly early am out of SYD and depart BNE or MEL around the 1700 mark. Web check in allows me a little more time in the morning for brekky in the "Lounge" (joined just before it went full service thanks to the tip from this forum) it also gives me a little more time to wortk in the afternoon knowing i dont have to wait in line. I understand the reasons behind not giving exit rows out on line (although flying QF i have seen all types of people in the exit rows,not always "fit and able to assist in case of emergency" thats for sure.) Now that it seems the forward rows have more room i am more interested in how i can get up the front of the bus given i am 6'4 a littel extra room even on a short flight would be nice.

 

[Yada Yada]

So the question is, how does Jazzamcc get the 1-9 rows options using web check in?

I'm flying SYD-MEL and return tomorrow, and just used web checkin. My flight out is a Blue Saver fare and I could not access rows 1-10 on the 737-700. The forward most seat available was in row 11. The BP shows I am seq 6.

My return flight is a Blue Plus fare and guess what - the front section of the cabin was available and it auto-allocated me an aisle seat in row 2! The curious thing is that the boarding pass indicates I am seq 2, yet there were quite a few seats unavailable in the front section of the cabin (in addition to the Blue Zone seats). Given that I purchased the highest fare for this flight, I guess they must block seats out for other purposes.

Back to your question - I don't know how Jazzamcc does it, unless the flights he takes are empty enough that the seating allocation is opened up?

One other thing I noticed - my BP for the return flight (Blue Plus fare) indicates that I have access to The Lounge.

The Blue Plus fares are quite good and a nice difference to QF. They are reasonably priced (lower than QF's full economy), make the best seats on the plane available to me, and give me access to The Lounge. Hard to beat.

 

[Davos]

I'm off to MEL tomm too, I checked in earlier today, seq3, even then there were quire a few seats blocked off in the middle if the plane. I always seem to be allocated seat 11A for some reason, i will ask at "The Lounge" tomorrow if it is possible to have a seating preferance added to my profile.

 

[jazzamcc]

Back to your question - I don't know how Jazzamcc does it, unless the flights he takes are empty enough that the seating allocation is opened up

Yada Yada, nearly every flight I have take with DJ has either been full, or very close to full. On Anzac Day coming back from MEL for the ANZAC Day clash, I had Row 2 all to myself!!
I have noticed that when the plane is quite full, that the back of the plane is full, yet the first six or seven rows usually have spare seats. I know this is the "Suit Zone", yet I have never purchased an expensive fare.

I always check-in 24 hours beforehand, and notice that seats are automatically blocked off. As I have said, I've always had the option to sit in Zone 1, though when I went to check some family members in, Zone 1 was blocked. Mystery.