[Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10April

[markis10]

Fair enough on the name-calling. Is changing the name "points + pay" to "Any Seat Awards" factually incorrect? Isn't that exactly what has happened? Or is there a difference between the 2.

I think you need to check your facts, points plus pay has always been classed as an any seat award and mentioned as such in the points plus pay part of the website.

And what were previously known as ASAs are gone completely from the site. The only remnants are an email sent to a few select members advising them of a temporary solution over the phone which currently has a booking success rate well under 50% because most Qantas operators haven't been told what they are.

Is that stat based on your personal experience using a sample of two for instance or just picked from thin air, its certainly not reflective of what's reported here in the "success" thread???

 

[Deleted member]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Here is a reply that we received from QF when providing feedback on the latest ASA changes

>
> Thank you for contacting The Qantas Club and Frequent Flyer Service Centre and taking the time to provide feedback on our online Award booking changes.
>
> The new search function removes the need for three separate entry points for commercial (retail) fares, Qantas & Jetstar Any Seat Awards, and Qantas & Partner Classic Awards. All three booking types can now commence through the one single search panel, with the exception of Classic Award seats purchased as an Any Seat Award.
>
> Any Seat Award bookings made in reservation classes X, Z, U or P (Classic Award classes) cannot be made online at qantas.com.
>
> These Award bookings are available by calling 1300 366 587 (+61 2 8222 2430 from outside Australia) between the hours of 0900 and 1700 AEST Monday to Friday. The Award Assistance Fee will be waived for these bookings, and the booking channel will remain available while the future of these Awards is under review.
>
> Commercial fares for sale on qantas.com are available as an Any Seat Award using a combination of cash and points or paying entirely with points.
>
> In most cases the points required for Any Seat Awards booked in these classes are higher than those required for a Classic Award in the same class of travel on the same flight. S
>
> If you'd like to know how you can use Qantas Frequent Flyer points, please visit qantas.com/rewards where you'll find details on how to redeem for Award Flights, Award Upgrades and purchases at the Qantas Frequent Flyer Store.
>
> , thank you again for taking the time to write and let us know your views. Your feedback will be submitted and is greatly appreciated.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
> Kellie
> The Qantas Club and Frequent Flyer Service Centre

So the QF attitude is clear. Ignore the feedback and tell you what you already know.

 

[medhead]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

I think you need to check your facts, points plus pay has always been classed as an any seat award and mentioned as such in the points plus pay part of the website.

That's absolutely wrong. The definition of an ASA is clear. Qantas must call it an ASA to be an ASA. The only thing that you have presented to support your wrong view is that points plus pay are "treated as" ASA wrt the fare conditions. Sorry but that is not the same as being ASAs.

 

[kooky]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

I suggest anyone that hasn't written to Qantas yet should take the time to do so, so that your voice/opinion may be heard!

I assume the final decision whether or not to continue with MASAs will come down to demand, in many ways. And many of you may only book sporadically (or not have anything lined up in the next few months).

 

[footy99]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Is that stat based on your personal experience using a sample of two for instance or just picked from thin air, its certainly not reflective of what's reported here in the "success" thread???

I'd have another look through that thread if I were you. There are a handful of first time flukes. The majority seem to get it eventually, usually after 4-6 calls and 3-4 hours on the phone with various operators. The rest try a bunch of times then give up because it doesn't work. The latter matches my experience. Bear in mind, this is on a phone number dedicated to these bookings.

I think you need to check your facts, points plus pay has always been classed as an any seat award and mentioned as such in the points plus pay part of the website.

I can't verify this. I know from my experience, I have booked a lot of ASAs and not one of them is even remotely reminiscent of the current points required. They were always just slightly more than the classic award. So the only ASAs I assume anyone ever booked are gone. Points + Pay has always existed as a totally separate and unrelated option to ASAs, which I never used.

In short: Qantas declared ASAs were here to stay. Qantas removed ASAs. Rather than owning up to their error, they changed the name of Points + Pay to ASAs. If I put an "apples" label on a basket of oranges, it doesn't make them apples.

 

[kooky]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Frequent flyers as a whole have only lost benefits over the last few years as far as I know?
- changing from KM to Miles, increased redemption points cost
- QP life members loss of BA lounge access
- WP loss of anytime lounge access
- harder to reach status bonuses for the lower-level frequent flyers
- increased JASA cost creep
- and now removal of MASAs
..The noose just tightens doesn't it?

I wonder what they've gained? Colour coded bag tags?

 

[markis10]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

:idea:

That's absolutely wrong. The definition of an ASA is clear. Qantas must call it an ASA to be an ASA. The only thing that you have presented to support your wrong view is that points plus pay are "treated as" ASA wrt the fare conditions. Sorry but that is not the same as being ASAs.

Try the QFF terms definition page as an alternate source:

Frequent Flyer - About the Program - Glossary of Terms

and described by Qantas as an 'Any Seat Award', which a Member obtains through Qantas Frequent Flyer by redeeming Points only or by redeeming Points and paying money, in accordance with the terms and conditions, but does not include a Classic Award.

and

Points Plus Pay means the redemption of Points and payment of money by Accepted Payment Card in order to receive an Award

 

[medhead]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

I can't verify this. I know from my experience, I have booked a lot of ASAs and not one of them is even remotely reminiscent of the current points required. They were always just slightly more than the classic award. So the only ASAs I assume anyone ever booked are gone. Points + Pay has always existed as a totally separate and unrelated option to ASAs, which I never used.

In short: Qantas declared ASAs were here to stay. Qantas removed ASAs. Rather than owning up to their error, they changed the name of Points + Pay to ASAs. If I put an "apples" label on a basket of oranges, it doesn't make them apples.

They haven't even changed the name to ASA. The website only gives the option to make cash, points plus pay or classic award bookings.

Another key difference is ASA could only be reduced to a based points level that was the same as the classic award points level (or slightly lower in some cases) regardless of the total points cost. Whereas points plus pay (and the current website bookable points plus pay) can be reduce to a fix 5000 points regardless of the classic award requirement.

 

[serfty]

...
And what were previously known as ASAs are gone completely from the site. The only remnants are an email sent to a few select members advising them of a temporary solution over the phone which currently has a booking success rate well under 50% because most Qantas operators haven't been told what they are.

So my summation is ASAs as they were known before a few weeks ago are gone from the site, gone altogether for 99.9% of customers and about to be gone altogether for the remaining 0.1%. Qantas guaranteed this wouldn't happen. So they have retained the name in reference to what was previously known as Points + Pay. They believe this helps maintain integrity and hides the fact that they said ASAs wouldn't disappear, and then they disappeared. If you believe this is factually incorrect, I'd love to hear your justification.

I agree with this - looking more closely it seems to be the case.

From what I am seeing I believe the fare structure that underpinned the Specific "Any Seat Award" booking engine is no longer available on line in any way shape or form.

This is particularly apparent as the online Origin-Destination great circle distance facit of minimum points is not there any more. (Try changing a previously booked JASA on line to dates with the same segment having U class - the costs have gone from, say +$0 or +$21 to +$1,234 or $5,678 etc.

What Qantas have done online it seems is to have changed the use of points in lieu of cash to a minimum of 5K and a flat rate per $ as posted and changed the name from "Cash and Points" (or "Points plus Pay" or whatever) to "Any Seat Award".

I guess this removes the need (& cost) to provide and support one less online booking function.

 

[medhead]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

:idea:

Try the QFF terms definition page as an alternate source:

Frequent Flyer - About the Program - Glossary of Terms



and

Well done! you've found exactly what I'm talking about. That is my primary source as I already mentioned. Did you actually read it? It says "and described by qantas as an 'any seat award'".

Therefore, it is not an any seat award if it is not called an Anyseat award. Which means if it is called points plus pay it is not an any seat award. Which is exactly what I said.

 

[markis10]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Well done! you've found exactly what I'm talking about. That is my primary source as I already mentioned. Did you actually read it? It says "and described by qantas as an 'any seat award'".

Therefore, it is not an any seat award if it is not called an Anyseat award. Which means if it is called points plus pay it is not an any seat award. Which is exactly what I said.

I read it differently, as did Simon when announcing it in 2008:

He said that from today, Qantas Frequent Flyer members had three different options for obtaining award seats:
- Qantas and Jetstar Any Seat Awards, which allows members to use points for any seat including taxes and charges on any flight with a QF or JQ number. Not all special promotional fares are available as Qantas and Jetstar Any Seat Awards and Award flights must be booked at least 24 hours before scheduled departure;
- Points Plus Pay, which allows members to use a combination of points and a credit/charge card payment, for Qantas and Jetstar Any Seat Awards and in the Qantas Frequent Flyer online store; and
- Qantas and Partner Classic Awards - the traditional option of using a set number of points for a limited number of seats on Qantas, Jetstar and partner airlines, with no change to the points required.

Points plus pay is only usable for an ASA, therefore any oohing made via that method is an ASA booking! Three options of making bookings for the two award types.

 

[medhead]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

I read it differently, as did Simon when announcing it in 2008:



Points plus pay is only usable for an ASA, therefore any oohing made via that method is an ASA booking! Three options of making bookings for the two award types.

That's where you're wrong, points plus pay was also usable for cash bookings. You do remember that it was possible to follow through a cash booking and then select the points plus pay option. There were a couple of significant differences with these points plus pay bookings and ASA. That cash booking conversion system has been retained on the website. Current Points plus pay is not an ASA, it converts a cash booking.

In any case, as per the definition that quote still describes them (asa) as ASA.

 

[bobe]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

What is the best number to ring the call center??

 

[codash1099]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

I read it differently, as did Simon when announcing it in 2008:



Points plus pay is only usable for an ASA, therefore any oohing made via that method is an ASA booking! Three options of making bookings for the two award types.

The critical thing is the comma after the words "credit/charge card payment" (shown in red). It separates points+pay from any seat awards.

- Points Plus Pay, which allows members to use a combination of points and a credit/charge card payment, for Qantas and Jetstar Any Seat Awards and in the Qantas Frequent Flyer online store

 

[penegal]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

But with recent amex changes it's no longer that attractive as an alternative... What i'd give for a CC that I could credit to AA/USDM

Yes and no...

The problem with the changes is you end up with a fleet of credit cards and gift cards and use one depending on the optimal earn/discount.


FWIW with careful card selection you can actually earn more miles under the new scheme given selective bonuses. But you need to think about it a lot more.

 

[penegal]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

I wonder what they've gained? Colour coded bag tags?

Woolworths Everyday Rewards has been a QFF points bonanza for some


I would argue that it is a lot easier to earn QFF points nowadays, so any points "devaluation" or reduction of award availability isn't particularly surprising. On a personal level this upsets me, but I can completely understand why QF are doing this.

 

[legroom]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

Here is a reply that we received from QF when providing feedback on the latest ASA changes

>
> Thank you for contacting The Qantas Club and Frequent Flyer Service Centre and taking the time to provide feedback on our online Award booking changes.
>
> The new search function removes the need for three separate entry points for commercial (retail) fares, Qantas & Jetstar Any Seat Awards, and Qantas & Partner Classic Awards. All three booking types can now commence through the one single search panel, with the exception of Classic Award seats purchased as an Any Seat Award.
>
> Any Seat Award bookings made in reservation classes X, Z, U or P (Classic Award classes) cannot be made online at qantas.com.
>
> These Award bookings are available by calling 1300 366 587 (+61 2 8222 2430 from outside Australia) between the hours of 0900 and 1700 AEST Monday to Friday. The Award Assistance Fee will be waived for these bookings, and the booking channel will remain available while the future of these Awards is under review.
>
> Commercial fares for sale on qantas.com are available as an Any Seat Award using a combination of cash and points or paying entirely with points.
>
> In most cases the points required for Any Seat Awards booked in these classes are higher than those required for a Classic Award in the same class of travel on the same flight. S
>
> If you'd like to know how you can use Qantas Frequent Flyer points, please visit qantas.com/rewards where you'll find details on how to redeem for Award Flights, Award Upgrades and purchases at the Qantas Frequent Flyer Store.
>
> , thank you again for taking the time to write and let us know your views. Your feedback will be submitted and is greatly appreciated.
>
> Kind Regards,
>
>
> Kellie
> The Qantas Club and Frequent Flyer Service Centre

Thanks, Kellie, for confirming a couple of relevant points.

"Under review" - in my books - is likely to be a code for abolition.

 

[Rolls]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

What is the best number to ring the call center??

I tried the number in the email and was put through to the premium desk who tried to assure me I could still book an ASA on line. Had trouble trying to make her understand I wanted a "marginal redemption " not the million point option. She couldn't find me a flight.... UGH!

 

[ReLoad]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

tried to book my first one one the phone today, had the rudest guy in the galaxy, treated me like an idiot.
needless to say the return flight had became unavailable since i had looked it up earlier in the day.

What an epic and total waste of time.

not happy, not happy at all.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26-was]10April

so I was looking to book flights today... previously for award bookings I was able to use the drop down box and book something like HKG-SYD. now I find entering HKG as the origin and SYD as the destination returns a 'there are no citis matching your request' message.

the problem is solved if you select hong kong as the country for the website (ie change from Australia).

so it seems the new booking system for awards carries over the same restrictions as the old paid booking system.

is this indeed a restriction or am I just a 'jetstar idiot' and doing someone wrong? (oddly all OTHER australian cities appear accept for sydney!)