Constant credit card turnover for points

[woodyren]

Just as a data point. I have in the last few years met minimum spend by paying part or all of that spend on cruises, airfare taxes and twice on house and car insurance. I have cancelled much of the travel and both insurances for various reasons.

The refunds were processed back to cancelled cards for which I had recieved sign up bonuses. Each of those refunds would have potentially if deducted from my initial spend put me under the minimum spend limits.

No points were deducted or clawed back from my accounts but I do believe that they could potentially do a claw back if they pursued it at the time.

On a few other occasions refunds to open cards always have resulted in a deduction of accrued current spend points.

 

[h10]

Churn and burn forever!

A few points:
1) Why don't more people do it? People don't know about it. People are lazy. People don't think it's worth the effort. People are strange.

2) Does it impact your score? Of course. But, so what.

3) 4 or 5 times in a year? Well, you're doing it wrong!

Since I got onto this, I've never flown less than business class and often fly first class.

Personally I'm very happy that most people don't know about this/can't be bothered.

So what happens to the points you have on hand when you cancel? Do they get cancelled as well or are they converted to frequent flyer points prior to cancellation.
What I noticed ever since the Royal Commission on Banking it has been that much more difficult to obtain credit than prior to the Commission making churn and burn more difficult.

 

[Dr Ralph]

So what happens to the points you have on hand when you cancel? Do they get cancelled as well or are they converted to frequent flyer points prior to cancellation.

This varies with different banks. My advice would be transfer before you close your account.

 

[Mr H]

So what happens to the points you have on hand when you cancel? Do they get cancelled as well or are they converted to frequent flyer points prior to cancellation.
What I noticed ever since the Royal Commission on Banking it has been that much more difficult to obtain credit than prior to the Commission making churn and burn more difficult.

I have just cancelled a Citibank card. When I called to cancel, the agent said I needed to convert the remaining points and gave me options - but be aware that some redemption options (e.g. Krisflyer) have minimum amounts you can transfer.

 

[Mattao]

Thanks. Over $150,000 but self employed. Maybe they just did not like me. They did previously. Will try elsewhere! Had closed a few cards but maybe they still registered as open.

I have a similar income and was having trouble with banks because I am self employed also. Over last 6 months I have been paying myself a salary via my company and churning has become much easier. I agree - they prefer PAYG / regular income. They still ask me questions about the business but never reject.

Since I have a business, I was able to set up a b2bpay account. To meet the minimum spend I pay tax using b2bpay. It costs about $50 per card in fees but saves me the hassle of finding something to spend the money on. I either leave the tax paid on the account till i lodge my return or ask the ATO to refund it periodically.

 

[Mr H]

This thread has just inspired me to apply for the second credit card in a week. I do foresee cash flow issues if I am going to get the bonuses quickly but I guess part of the deal is having at least $10-12k perpetually tied up between spend and refund.

 

[33kft]

Are you able to share any more details on the circumstances in which you've seen it occur, as I've genuinely never heard of it happening.

There's a rather famous Bankwest thread on this site where it happened. Search for Bankwest Transaction Account and pack a lunch for the journey

 

[QF_Flyer]

I stand corrected!

Are you able to share any more details on the circumstances in which you've seen it occur, as I've genuinely never heard of it happening. I understand (and agree) that points can be taken back (e.g. by Qantas, my original post wasn't suggesting otherwise), but had just never heard it being done directly by a bank.

Qantas Money (Citibank) do it - I've never seen any other QFF card do it (not saying it doesn't happen), the ANZ cards for e.g. just go into -ve balance of points to be transferred to your QFF account, which means future spending goes to clear that before you start earning again.

With the QF money card, if you have a -ve balance at the end of the month, they'll be removed from your QFF account. I guess Citi/QF have an agreement to do this as part of their Qantas Money tie-up, which makes perfect sense.

 

[Mr H]

With the QF money card, if you have a -ve balance at the end of the month, they'll be removed from your QFF account. I guess Citi/QF have an agreement to do this as part of their Qantas Money tie-up, which makes perfect sense.

Do you know how that would work if money were returned to a closed card account? Especially if the refund meant that the spend for a sign up bonus would not have been met?

 

[QF_Flyer]

Do you know how that would work if money were returned to a closed card account? Especially if the refund meant that the spend for a sign up bonus would not have been met?

Good question. I'm not sure - I would assume that the Qantas Money card would be able to reclaim the points, since they can do so for refunds when the account is open, and I also assume that would include the SUB, so I'd deal with all that before closure, to be sure (get the refund and ensure the minimum is still met, so the SUB isn't reclaimed).

I've had refunds on closed Amex cards before, which has resulted in a negative balance which has never been reclaimed, but that's it (and never the SUB thankfully).

I wouldn't have any issues with leaving an account a few thousand -ve due to refunds, and I doubt the card co. would bother trying to chase that up, but would always try and ensure I'm not in a position where the SUB is reclaimed (either from the account it's sent to, or to the point where it results in a negative on the card, if that makes sense).

 

[Canberradaddy]

I'm heading in that direction now. I thought super income was counted as I occasionally add the small amount of super I draw to my current earnings which are still enough on their own to get the cards I apply for.

Next year once I resume travelling my earnings will drop by more than 50% and I thought increasing my super draw down would boost total earnings up sufficiently for the next churning cycle of top shelf card bonuses.

Plan B is just to throttle back to next level cards offering around 75,000 pt bonuses and only requiring 30K or so of income.

Are you absolutely sure super income is not counted?

Yes, when you fill out the application for a card it specifically says that super income is not counted. Sort out cards before retiring.

 

[Dr Ralph]

Yes, when you fill out the application for a card it specifically says that super income is not counted.

This just isn't universally correct. Whilst some banks may not count income from super, others definitely do.

 

[VPS]

This just isn't universally correct. Whilst some banks may not count income from super, others definitely do.

do you happen to know which ones will count super as income please?

 

[Dr Ralph]

do you happen to know which ones will count super as income please?

Yes. I'd indicated this previously in this thread:

Constant credit card turnover for points

Many threads within this section 😀 https://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/community/#credit-cards-banking-finance.65 Good luck. I would offer the advice not to get carried away within your cash flow abilities-some of the spend targets may mean you end up bringing forward expenses. Also...

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

And there are others. To suggest that all credit card providers ignore income from Super is categorically wrong.

 

[burmans]

I'm heading in that direction now. I thought super income was counted as I occasionally add the small amount of super I draw to my current earnings which are still enough on their own to get the cards I apply for.

Next year once I resume travelling my earnings will drop by more than 50% and I thought increasing my super draw down would boost total earnings up sufficiently for the next churning cycle of top shelf card bonuses.

Plan B is just to throttle back to next level cards offering around 75,000 pt bonuses and only requiring 30K or so of income.

Are you absolutely sure super income is not counted?

My experience was different on a recent CC application. They were happy to include super but had a very weird way of calculating mortgage interest. I’m way ahead on paying down my mortgage, with virtually all covered by interest saver accounts. But still with a very significant redraw ability. ANZ insisted on calculating my monthly payment on the limit (400k), not the outstanding 20k, I also had about 18k in interest offset. So actual interest was close to nothing, required repayments about $200 a month but ANZ insisted on calculating that I would have to pay $2k a month.

So my advice to others would be to pay down or reduce limits on loans ( including CCs) before applying.

 

[Mumanddad]

do you happen to know which ones will count super as income please?

We've just been approved for a Qantas money card and they accepted our super salary.