Could metal detectors become worthless in protecting the skys?

[harvyk]

Downloads for 3D Liberator gun exceed 100,000 but is it legal? | Information, Gadgets, Mobile Phones News & Reviews | News.com.au

Whilst not strictly a travel news item, it does pose the question, are metal detectors still useful? Considering the price of 3D printers is only going to go down, and the piece of metal in this design is only there for legal reasons, not technical, is having a metal detector really a useful thing anymore?

The US Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told Mashable that The Liberator would be illegal if the gun couldn't be detected, which it currently isn't if users follow the blueprint without modifying it.

PS. Please don't let this thread become a gun debate, this is purely for discussing if metal detectors are still relevant against 3D printer designed weapons.

 

[casanovawa]

I guess there are lots of things metal detectors can't detect (explosives etc) which is why they have more a of a suite of tests/scans in many airports...

If they didn't have metal detectors i'm sure a lot more people would take an easier route than this if they had mischief on their mind...

 

[simongr]

Isntthat why they are moving to full body scanners?

 

[Fantic125]

Although the gun itself (without the metal piece) may not necessarily be detected, bullets associated with the gun would be.

In theory the projectile could be made from a non-metallic compound (e.g. ceramic), but the shell casing and firing cap would still be metallic (at this stage) so x-rays are still worthwhile in that regard.

 

[harvyk]

I guess there are lots of things metal detectors can't detect (explosives etc) which is why they have more a of a suite of tests/scans in many airports...

If they didn't have metal detectors i'm sure a lot more people would take an easier route than this if they had mischief on their mind...

This isn't exactly an overly difficult route as 3D printers are not exactly hard to come by (I know of at least one person who has one, and a second person who is in the process of buying one), and it would be easier than purchasing a gun legally. The other thing is how long before you have criminals buying 3D printers to manufacturer and sell such weapons?

 

[Fantic125]

One potential way to overcome the metal casing issue could be if the gun used compressed gas to propel the projectile.

It wouldn't be as as powerful as a standard bullet but it would most probably be effective enough in a relatively small closed environment like a plane. You would most probably only have limited charges though.

 

[casanovawa]

This isn't exactly an overly difficult route as 3D printers are not exactly hard to come by (I know of at least one person who has one, and a second person who is in the process of buying one), and it would be easier than purchasing a gun legally. The other thing is how long before you have criminals buying 3D printers to manufacturer and sell such weapons?

Most criminals don't buy their guns legally, that's usually what the law abiding schmucks do... Here anyway, over in the US buying a gun is like buying a loaf of bread it seems...

And that is two people who have 3D printers out of 23 million... I don't know anyone who has one, how much do they cost???

As Fantic alludes to there is a bit of a complicated path to go down once you start making your own guns and ammunition... I'd still rather have a metal detector in some backwater airport, that can't afford all the hi tech body scanners, than nothing....

 

[The Rok]

The US Department of Defense has already issued a Cease & Desist notice to the maker of the plans to order them to stop offering them for download.

 

[harvyk]

I don't know anyone who has one, how much do they cost???

An entry level one costs around $1,700, and that's sourced locally here in CBR. I import one from the US and they can be as low as $1,000. I looked into it for a project a couple of months ago.

So not exactly a high cost of entry for someone wanting to cause trouble.

 

[harvyk]

The US Department of Defense has already issued a Cease & Desist notice to the maker of the plans to order them to stop offering them for download.

Yes, but all it takes is for one person who has downloaded the model to republish it somewhere that the US DoD has no ability to issue cease and desist notices (or the person hosting it doesn't care about local laws) and problem solved.

 

[Skyring]

Most criminals don't buy their guns legally, that's usually what the law abiding schmucks do...

I beg to differ. The guns are manufactured legally, so they must be sold legally, otherwise the manufacturers and the distribution channels would go out of business through lack of income.

 

[moa999]

I also don't believe that the plastics in your 'entry level' 3D printer would be sufficient.

 

[markis10]

I beg to differ. The guns are manufactured legally, so they must be sold legally, otherwise the manufacturers and the distribution channels would go out of business through lack of income.

Defence forces are very careless with their assets at times though - psst want to buy a cheap grenade launcher?

 

[harvyk]

I also don't believe that the plastics in your 'entry level' 3D printer would be sufficient.

Maybe, maybe not. In the article the guy did say that the 3D printer he used was a second hand one which he picked up for $8,000. Probably a bit much for the average home consumer at this point in time, but not outside the reach of criminal / terrorist orgs.

I do foresee a time when most homes have a 3D printer as a standard appliance, much like a good number of homes have a normal paper printer of some description.

 

[harvyk]

I beg to differ. The guns are manufactured legally, so they must be sold legally

or stolen.

 

[simongr]

I believe that skyring was being particularly specific in that before they get into the hands of the inappropriate they must first be sold legally unless stolen from the manufacturer.

 

[Skyring]

Defence forces are very careless with their assets at times though - psst want to buy a cheap grenade launcher?

Of course. But when we are talking about the level of gun crime in the USA, we're not talking carelessness. We're talking about firearms legitimately manufactured and sold.

It's like saying that cars used illegally - such as for unlicensed or drink driving or speeding - must therefore be obtained illegally.

Getting back on topic, I seem to recall a thriller of many years ago, about the time metal detectors came into use, talking about "airport guns". I have no doubt that low-powered firearms can be made of plastics or other non-metallic materials, and you don't need cased ammunition and lead bullets to kill or wound - or threaten - people. Caseless ammunition has been around for a very long time and ceramic bullets likewise. If someone really wanted to smuggle a gun onto a plane, they would be able to do so.

Now, what's going to happen when someone pulls out a 3D printed gun and threatens to shoot? Do you respect the threat - you've got no way of knowing if the thing is going to work - or do you gamble that it's a dud?

 

[Skyring]

I believe that skyring was being particularly specific in that before they get into the hands of the inappropriate they must first be sold legally unless stolen from the manufacturer.

Precisely. I don't think more than a few firearms used for criminal acts are stolen per se. Far more likely to be bought through back channels somehow if the purchaser has a criminal record or is in some way ineligible to purchase legally. And, of course, many hitherto law-abiding people decide to use firearms for criminal acts - crimes are committed by all manner of people, not just those wearing masks and striped shirts.

 

[markis10]

Of course. But when we are talking about the level of gun crime in the USA, we're not talking carelessness. We're talking about firearms legitimately manufactured and sold.

No we are talking about carelessness, $2M worth of guns is a lot of guns: http://english.irib.ir/voj/news/top-stories/item/82650-nearly-$2m-in-guns-combat-gear-sold-to-gangs

And thats just one case.

 

[casanovawa]

I beg to differ. The guns are manufactured legally, so they must be sold legally, otherwise the manufacturers and the distribution channels would go out of business through lack of income.

They may be sold legally, but then can be resold illegally... That or just plain nicked... Most cars driven by teenagers in police chases weren't bought by the perpetrators either, surprisingly enough...