COVID-19 and Tennis

[Flashback]

And there it is. Message me.

 

[NM]

A triple vaxed person wearing a mask not checking in for a 5 min shop is in no way similar to the Novak situation.

Regardless of comparison with Novax, its still a case of a person who believes the law doesn't apply to them. I don't believe there is any exemption noted in the check-in rules in any state of Australia that provides exemption based on mask wearing and/or vaccination status. The rules are the same for tennis players and everyone else.

 

[Quickstatus]

because - over 90% of us went ahead and did so in the first place.

But yet here we are and the environment is now very different to pre vax.
Basically your argument is "Because I had the jab, you must too" - exactly my point.
Not whether the unvaxxed pose a health risk to the community - at the moment they are only a health risk to themselves.
Telling unvaxxed that Covid is bad for their health is like telling smokers that smoking is bad for their health

Again, I don't think the vaccination lowers the transmission rate. Dr Chant even mentioned that in the presser yesterday when 36 people died.
Its a Pandemic of the Vaccinated.

 

[MARTINE]

But yet here we are and the environment is now very different to pre vax.
Basically your argument is "Because I had the jab, you must too" - exactly my point.
Not whether the unvaxxed pose a health risk to the community - at the moment they are only a health risk to themselves.
Telling unvaxxed that Covid is bad for their health is like telling smokers that smoking is bad for their health

Again, I don't think the vaccination lowers the transmission rate. Dr Chant even mentioned that in the presser yesterday when 36 people died.
Its a Pandemic of the Vaccinated.

You have inferred that is my argument but my point is that the lowering of risk for the unvaccinated once 90% vax rate is reached…arises by the actions of the herd. Its a statement not a judgement.
Lets leave it at that.
All Views have merit in this thread.

 

[Pushka]

But yet here we are and the environment is now very different to pre vax.
Basically your argument is "Because I had the jab, you must too" - exactly my point.
Not whether the unvaxxed pose a health risk to the community - at the moment they are only a health risk to themselves.
Telling unvaxxed that Covid is bad for their health is like telling smokers that smoking is bad for their health

Again, I don't think the vaccination lowers the transmission rate. Dr Chant even mentioned that in the presser yesterday when 36 people died.
Its a Pandemic of the Vaccinated.

All unvaxxed represent a risk to a health system that is struggling badly. Why add to that with someone who isn't a citizen PR etc and who doesn't contribute to Medicare, when the obligations to be here have been stated and confirmed. Pretty much all elective surgery has stopped, that's hardly good for peoples health.

 

[Quickstatus]

arises by the actions of the herd. Its a statement not a judgement.

I'm not sure if there is even a herd
In mass vaccination programs, if there is a herd, the herd is projected to be 100%. It is considered exceptional if its 90-95%.

Pretty much all elective surgery has stopped

Depends on what you call elective surgery.
Cat 1,2 or 3. Currently only Cat 3 stopped.
PreCovid we had lots of NonCovid patients whose lifestyle choices contributing to their poor health clogging the system. We have very elderly who consume most of their lifetime health resources in the last year of life. Where do we draw the line?
I don't have the answer, but it is not so easy to say Unvaxxed are clogging up the system without also addressing the other outlier health resources consumers.

 

[Lynda2475]

its still a case of a person who believes the law doesn't apply to them

Disagree, the people not checking in understand the health order (its not actually a law, but a law does enable health orders to be issued) applies to them but are choosing to disregard it it because the information being collected is no longer being used for the purpose it was when the aps were introduced. States are no longer publishing lists of exposure sites with times, and since switching to notices in history, NSW is ignoring the check out times (which were previously considered) and just pinging everyone there within 24 hours, even if your visits were 12 hours apart.

They are accepting the risk that they could get fined (in some states) but given the business then also gets fined, businesses wanting to avoid this scenario would put a staff member at the entrance to ensure people are checking in. NSW removed the need to check in at low risk venues like supermarkets before reintroducing (compliance was much higher before it was reintroduced). Interestingly none are providing manual sign-in anymore, so they also cant penalise you if you left yoru phone at home (only the business).

They arent expecting to be granted an exemption, they are not claiming they are entitled not to check in and they are not receiving a benefit as Novak expected to.

Anyone who ever crossed a road against the lights, walked their dog off lead outside their own private property (except in an off lead dog park) or had a single sip of alcohol before they were 18 or has driven 1km over the speed limit has broken the law. That doesn't mean authorities wouldnt enforce these laws it when the opportunity presents.

International border entry rules are policed for all entrants. You can't avoid passing through immigration, the onus is on the individual adult (not their agents) to ensure they comply with entry criteria and provide accurate information.

All unvaxxed represent a risk to a health system that is struggling badly. Why add to that with someone who isn't a citizen PR etc and who doesn't contribute to Medicare, when the obligations to be here have been stated and confirmed. Pretty much all elective surgery has stopped, that's hardly good for peoples health.

Exactly.

 

[love_the_life]

My observation was that some people don't check in because they choose not to - some because it would be 'inconvenient' to be contacted and have to isolate and others because it was only going to be a quick visit to a venue. In my mind that is an entitled attitude and so I saw some similarities with ND. Of course people are free to disagree and obviously have.
Bored now.

 

[NM]

Disagree, the people not checking in understand the health order (its not actually a law, but a law does enable health orders to be issued) applies to them but are choosing to disregard it it because the information being collected is no longer being used for the purpose it was when the aps were introduced. States are no longer publishing lists of exposure sites with times, and since switching to notices in history, NSW is ignoring the check out times (which were previously considered) and just pinging everyone there within 24 hours, even if your visits were 12 hours apart.

They are accepting the risk that they could get fined (in some states) but given the business then also gets fined, businesses wanting to avoid this scenario would put a staff member at the entrance to ensure people are checking in. NSW removed the need to check in at low risk venues like supermarkets before reintroducing (compliance was much higher before it was reintroduced). Interestingly none are providing manual sign-in anymore, so they also cant penalise you if you left yoru phone at home (only the business).

They arent expecting to be granted an exemption.

Anyone who ever crossed a road against the lights, walked their dog off lead outside their own private property (except in an off lead dog park) or had a single sip of alcohol before they were 18, driven 1km over the speed limit has broken the law. That doesn't mean authorities don't enforce it when the opportunity presents.

International border entry rules are policed for all entrants. You can't avoid passing through immigration, the onus ins on the individual adult (not their agents) to ensure they comply with entry criteria and provide accurate information.

WOW <remaining thoughts removed before posting to stop getting further off-topic>

 

[Pushka]

I'm not sure if there is even a herd
In mass vaccination programs, if there is a herd, the herd is projected to be 100%. It is considered exceptional if its 90-95%.


Depends on what you call elective surgery.
Cat 1,2 or 3. Currently only Cat 3 stopped.
PreCovid we had lots of NonCovid patients whose lifestyle choices contributing to their poor health clogging the system. We have very elderly who consume most of their lifetime health resources in the last year of life. Where do we draw the line?
I don't have the answer, but it is not so easy to say Unvaxxed are clogging up the system without also addressing the other outlier health resources consumers.

Category 2 has also stopped in SA.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I'd rather get back to Djokovic vaxxed-related issues or (Aussie) players' AO22 tennis results

 

[Pushka]

I'd rather get back to Djokovic vaxxed-related issues or (Aussie) players' AO22 tennis results

The actual tennis tournament needs its own thread

 

[MARTINE]

Let’s get back to enjoying the tennis. Another masterful display from Ash Barty today to progress to next round. Rafa got through with some tenacious tennis. Kyrgios and Kokkinakis currently doubling up against Bolt/McCabe - two other Aussies on a beautiful Melbourne day.
No reports of players coming down w Covid since Tomic
EDIT - I posted before noting 1211 and 1212 . I agree now that the Joke has been deported let’s have TennisAO22 thread. Talk of virus/clogged beds in hospital/QR codes can go back across to that thread that still exists ‘Australian Reports of Virus Spread’

 

[drron]

All unvaxxed represent a risk to a health system that is struggling badly. Why add to that with someone who isn't a citizen PR etc and who doesn't contribute to Medicare, when the obligations to be here have been stated and confirmed. Pretty much all elective surgery has stopped, that's hardly good for peoples health.

But according to the Danish research those that are only double vaxxed are at slightly more risk than the unvaxxed. So do we stop the double vaxxed from entering restaurants,bars etc.Even the triple vaxxed are only 13.8% less likely to catch Omicron than the unvaxxed.



Then there are the obese who are much more at risk than the fit unvaxxed such as Novax. Do we isolate all of them?
No we should return to normal times when we treated everyone as another human being. health is a basic right for everyone.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

The actual tennis tournament needs its own thread

Let’s get back to enjoying the tennis. Another masterful display from Ash Barty today to progress to next round. Rafa got through with some tenacious tennis. Kyrgios and Kokkinakis currently doubling up against Bolt/McCabe - two other Aussies on a beautiful Melbourne day.
No reports of players coming down w Covid since Tomic

I'm waiting for the first covid player/official/coach report. Most likely might be a player withdrawal due to family getting covid. Perhaps players say to inner circle - no testing until i get beaten.

 

[Pushka]

But according to the Danish research those that are only double vaxxed are at slightly more risk than the unvaxxed. So do we stop the double vaxxed from entering restaurants,bars etc.Even the triple vaxxed are only 13.8% less likely to catch Omicron than the unvaxxed.

View attachment 269337

Then there are the obese who are much more at risk than the fit unvaxxed such as Novax. Do we isolate all of them?
No we should return to normal times when we treated everyone as another human being. health is a basic right for everyone.

except the whole idea of the vaccine is not to prevent transmission but prevent serious illness and hospital resources and the research I noted today from Europe was very conclusive.

Are there any testing requirements for the Tennis Tournament?

 

[MARTINE]

Are there any testing requirements for the Tennis Tournament?

It is rather interesting
- Players do daily RAT and self-report
If pos isolate 10 days in hotel
- players who ‘display symptoms’ will be RAT tested and if pos isolate in their hotel
- players who are contacts (family/close player contact) isolate till neg RAT

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Lynda2475]

Players do daily RAT and self-report

And does anyone really believe if Novak was allowed to stay he would be honest in such a situation??

 

[drron]

except the whole idea of the vaccine is not to prevent transmission but prevent serious illness and hospital resources and the research I noted today from Europe was very conclusive.

Are there any testing requirements for the Tennis Tournament?

But the protection from severe illness is not important if you are young with no comorbidities Your chance of severe illness in that group especially with omicron is very small even if unvaxxed.

 

[Steamrollersam]

Category 2 has also stopped in SA.

This isn’t accurate, specifically interventional cardiology and cardiac surgery which I can definitely speak for in SA public and private hospitals. More broadly general surgery, urology, neurosurgery, surgical oncology and obstetrics/gynaecology are operating as normal. I had a full theatre list yesterday (half cat 1, half cat 2 urgent). I saw fifteen other theatre lists (non-cardiac) on the day that were busy, and all of them had cat 2’s. No cardiac patients that are looked after by our group are waiting for procedures/operations any longer than usual considering some doctors are just returning from leave or in isolation. Only subspecialties that have always tended to have a preponderance of cat 3’s or non-urgent cat 2’s have doctors that are twiddling their thumbs right now such as ENT and orthopaedics.

Post automatically merged: Jan 19, 2022

Category 2 has also stopped in SA.

This isn’t accurate, specifically interventional cardiology and cardiac surgery which I can definitely speak for in SA public and private hospitals. More broadly general surgery, urology, neurosurgery, surgical oncology and obstetrics/gynaecology are operating as normal. I had a full theatre list yesterday (half cat 1, half cat 2 urgent). I saw fifteen other theatre lists (non-cardiac) on the day that were busy, and all of them had cat 2’s. No cardiac patients that are looked after by our group are waiting for procedures/operations any longer than usual considering some doctors are just returning from leave or in isolation. Only subspecialties that have always tended to have a preponderance of cat 3’s or non-urgent cat 2’s have doctors that are twiddling their thumbs right now such as ENT and orthopaedics.