Someone mentioned champagne. An interesting example. there are plenty of very good sparking wines out there. However, IME something that is true champagne has the benefit of being consistently good, regardless of price. You can spend $20-$30 on champagne and have good quality.
And even from the perspective of simple optics, I don't think it's an unreasonable expectation that we should be able to experience higher end wines (i.e. wines we may not otherwise have the means - or opportunity - to drink) in a "First" Lounge instead of a wine we could pick up for a tenner at Dan's. The wine from Dan's might be quite ok, but it certainly doesn't exude the "First Class" experience.
An interesting point of view. Are you saying that you think the wine in the first lounge should be the type of wine that only people who can afford to fly in [actual] first class can afford to buy?
The type of wine that first class flyers already have a gross on at home in their cellar?
Let me have a stab from a different direction. First is First. It should be tops - the pinnacle of flying and lounging experience. QR's F lounge in Doha serves some truly outstanding wines from around the world. People know the wines/wineries there and they are award winners by their peers (and, yes, they cost a lot - abt A$250 the one I had there). Other airlines serve award-winning, outstanding champagnes. In no competition are Qantas' wines in its First cabin 'First Class'.
Its not like Qantas doesn't know what a great wine is - there is often some excellent wines for P1s and sometimes very good wines in the 'off menu' decanter in the F lounge (as reported here). Other airlines serve 'global or national greats' in their First lounges and First Class cabins. Its not just that Qantas doesn't, its that they don't even try - the quality is 2 or 3 steps down.
Really not sure how you could compare QR F lounge, which requires bum in seat first fares, with the qantas first lounge full of W Platinums who spent $50 on a jetstar ticket.
Let's face it the decanter is offered to those in actual first.
some comment comparing in first cabin experience with the quantas lounge chalk and cheese.
I've never flown F during the Christmas period ex-SYD (or MEL when it was available), but at many other times of the year.
Always been told that the decanter offering (i.e. Grange level) is only during Christmas time.
The reports about drinking from the decanter have also been from people not in F (the ones I've come across at least).
Referring to the food menu, the current MEL & SYD F lounges are offering Steamed Snapper with Jiangxi sauce. I have had, in the SIN F lounge, Steamed Barramundi with Jiangxi sauce. I found the barramundi version a memorable dish but find the snapper version forgettable. Barramundi I thought just paired better with the sauce.
I was curious about the impression of others who have had both steamed fishes with the same sauce?
I haven't had both in either F lounges, though Humpty Doo barramundi with Jiangxi sauce was a dish served in international J for a long time ago, and it was rather delicious.
Assuming no one overcooks the fish in either case, a barramundi is going to suit this dish better than snapper will. Barramundi flakes apart beautifully, and coating it with that sauce that will easily infuse with the subtly soft flesh.
Snapper is a bit stiffer and holds its shape better overall; it doesn't "fuse" with the sauce as well as barramundi does. Snapper would probably be better in dishes that have simpler sauces or where you go for a "fresh" tasting dish (e.g. with a herb salad).
Interestingly, a quick Google search turns up this recipe, except it uses flathead (well, actually the recipe reads like you can use any fish for it): Jiangxi Style Steamed Flathead | Qantas Wine
An interesting point of view. Are you saying that you think the wine in the first lounge should be the type of wine that only people who can afford to fly in [actual] first class can afford to buy?
The type of wine that first class flyers already have a gross on at home in their cellar?
Not at all. As I’m sure you would acknowledge, Australia produces some amazing wines that compete exceptionally well on the global stage. And whilst “Grange” may have the title of the best known “premium” wine produced in the country, we obviously make some seriously good wines that come in well below that price tag. I’m talking about wines that are a tier or two above what the average punter would typically purchase for themselves or for a night out. I’m talking about cellar door exclusives. Limited release offerings. Highlight the best - or even the hidden gems - that a particular Aussie wine region has to offer, and as the self-proclaimed “Spirit of Australia”, showcase Australia’s great wines to international travellers (as opposed to the “Dan’s Member Offer” buys in the bargain bin).
Frankly, Qantas doesn’t need to - and probably shouldn’t - attempt to “out-QR/EK” either QR or EK in terms of their First Lounge offerings. But they could do much better when it comes to wines they offer in their First Lounge. And as has been pointed out by others, it’s a poor look if the wines in the QP are being served up in First as well. Qantas pitches the First Lounge as a premium experience for elite status holders (QF or other OWE) and First pax, so I don’t think it’s unfair for people to judge them by that standard.
I guess there still an argument than F lounge have higher price point wines for "exclusivity" - though I'm not certain Platinum status is all that exclusive hanging around here
An interesting point of view. Are you saying that you think the wine in the first lounge should be the type of wine that only people who can afford to fly in [actual] first class can afford to buy?
Really not sure how you could compare QR F lounge, which requires bum in seat first fares, with the qantas first lounge full of W Platinums who spent $50 on a jetstar ticket.
For me, it’s about making an effort. Yes, tastes very and you can get some good wines at a decent price. But if you are marketing the First experience, then your effort should be first class. Give us something out of the ordinary, something that you found that is very good and is a pleasure to experience in first.
And if you’re able to use the First class lounge, then you’ve spent quite a bit on Qantas group fares and are entitled to full use of the First class lounge. QR manage this, as you say, by dedicating its first class lounge into actual first class passengers and then provide other excellent lounges for other platinum.
No matter what the entry criteria are, if you call it a First class lounge, it should be a First class experience.
For me, it’s about making an effort. Yes, tastes very and you can get some good wines at a decent price. But if you are marketing the First experience, then your effort should be first class. Give us something out of the ordinary, something that you found that is very good and is a pleasure to experience in first.
And if you’re able to use the First class lounge, then you’ve spent quite a bit on Qantas group fares and are entitled to full use of the First class lounge. QR manage this, as you say, by dedicating its first class lounge into actual first class passengers and then provide other excellent lounges for other platinum.
No matter what the entry criteria are, if you call it a First class lounge, it should be a First class experience.
Agree. It's the message it sends about effort. I wouldn't drink it as I stick to champagne or G&T but it's appropriate to recognise the level of club membership and travel class. It'd be like offering Prosecco and ditching the champagne to me.
Someone mentioned champagne. An interesting example. there are plenty of very good sparking wines out there. However, IME something that is true champagne has the benefit of being consistently good, regardless of price. You can spend $20-$30 on champagne and have good quality.
Not at all. As I’m sure you would acknowledge, Australia produces some amazing wines that compete exceptionally well on the global stage. And whilst “Grange” may have the title of the best known “premium” wine produced in the country, we obviously make some seriously good wines that come in well below that price tag. I’m talking about wines that are a tier or two above what the average punter would typically purchase for themselves or for a night out. I’m talking about cellar door exclusives. Limited release offerings. Highlight the best - or even the hidden gems - that a particular Aussie wine region has to offer, and as the self-proclaimed “Spirit of Australia”, showcase Australia’s great wines to international travellers (as opposed to the “Dan’s Member Offer” buys in the bargain bin).
Frankly, Qantas doesn’t need to - and probably shouldn’t - attempt to “out-QR/EK” either QR or EK in terms of their First Lounge offerings. But they could do much better when it comes to wines they offer in their First Lounge. And as has been pointed out by others, it’s a poor look if the wines in the QP are being served up in First as well. Qantas pitches the First Lounge as a premium experience for elite status holders (QF or other OWE) and First pax, so I don’t think it’s unfair for people to judge them by that standard.
I'm glad you mentioned Grange, because I was pondering this point in the shower this morning and decided 389 is good enough such that Grange isn't needed. This then made me wonder if you'd be happy with 389, as that isn't a particularly difficult or 'special' experience.
The problem, imo, about a level of expectation about cellar door exclusives and hidden gems is supply. Qantas are trying to provide a seasonally consistent product - spring autumn summer winter. Is a hidden cellar door gem going to be able to provide the quality required for 3 months? If they can, will they have any left to sell to someone who has followed up after tasting in the first lounge?
I guess that's the other point, I suspect qantas do use this as a product placement market offer for wine producers.
No I'm not defending Penfolds Max, my opinion is that is crass marketing - but then I've never tried penfolds max. maybe it is a decent wine.
As I said, if you go seraching you can get some decent international reds at Dan's for cheap. Roija, some of the french muck. Probably a reflection of European (old world) wine making that aims for consistency.
I've never flown F during the Christmas period ex-SYD (or MEL when it was available), but at many other times of the year.
Always been told that the decanter offering (i.e. Grange level) is only during Christmas time.
The reports about drinking from the decanter have also been from people not in F (the ones I've come across at least).
For me, it’s about making an effort. Yes, tastes very and you can get some good wines at a decent price. But if you are marketing the First experience, then your effort should be first class. Give us something out of the ordinary, something that you found that is very good and is a pleasure to experience in first.
And if you’re able to use the First class lounge, then you’ve spent quite a bit on Qantas group fares and are entitled to full use of the First class lounge. QR manage this, as you say, by dedicating its first class lounge into actual first class passengers and then provide other excellent lounges for other platinum.
No matter what the entry criteria are, if you call it a First class lounge, it should be a First class experience.
I gotta say I'm not seeing much on the current menu that tells me it isn't possible to have that experience. I haven't tried the Mclaren Vale GSM, so not going to say it's rubbish, I'm actually thinking of trying it next week.
Overall the menu shown here doesn't excite me in terms of food. but the wine pairings suggested seem reasonable enough, considering I've only tried the noble one. I'd be interested in alternatives.
The Wynns cab sav - Wynns is usually ok, I've not tried that wine. But I probably wouldn't as there isn't meal that I would want to have with a typical wynns cab sav..
looking at the dreaded Dan's IME Veuve Rozier and Louis Auger are well priced ($37 to $50), decent champagnes. IMO equal to DAOSA sparklings from the Adelaide hill, which are priced $60 to $90. I had a very nice grant burge vintage sparkling the other week, that was also more expensive.
I've just given two examples of cheap champagne the quality is comparable. If we dig into cheap Australia sparkling, it becomes un-drinkable.
I've also tried the Saint-Hilare from Limoux and it's pretty decent, certainly rate it above Jansz - $20 a bottle.
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Thanks to everyone sharing the menus, helps immensely with preparing for flights next week.
My point is that the "top level" decanter offerings are only during Christmas time, for one week of the year (possibly two), to anyone in the F lounge (P1 or not).
Outside of Christmas, F and P1 don't get that option. This has been my experience several times.
As an F pax last month, I asked in SYD and was told nothing available. Will check again this month.
They have had "average level" decanter offerings available to everyone, but that isn't the focus of this specific point.
Someone mentioned champagne. An interesting example. there are plenty of very good sparking wines out there. However, IME something that is true champagne has the benefit of being consistently good, regardless of price. You can spend $20-$30 on champagne and have good quality.
looking at the dreaded Dan's IME Veuve Rozier and Louis Auger are well priced ($37 to $50), decent champagnes. IMO equal to DAOSA sparklings from the Adelaide hill, which are priced $60 to $90. I had a very nice grant burge vintage sparkling the other week, that was also more expensive.
I've just given two examples of cheap champagne the quality is comparable. If we dig into cheap Australia sparkling, it becomes un-drinkable.
I've also tried the Saint-Hilare from Limoux and it's pretty decent, certainly rate it above Jansz - $20 a bottle.
Firstly what you've quoted is well outside the $20-$30 range though, which you claimed has good quality champagne.
Secondly, and this is incredibly subjective as wine always is, I personally don't think Veuve Rozier is a quality wine at all. Are they better than some cheap sparkling plong from the Adelaide Hills, sure. However, I've really not had any Adelaide Hills sparkling that I think is worth buying either.
Firstly what you've quoted is well outside the $20-$30 range though, which you claimed has good quality champagne.
Secondly, and this is incredibly subjective as wine always is, I personally don't think Veuve Rozier is a quality wine at all. Are they better than some cheap sparkling plong from the Adelaide Hills, sure. However, I've really not had any Adelaide Hills sparkling that I think is worth buying either.
The wine was then “tiraged” on 7th of February 2019, by the addition of yeast and sugar to the wine just before bottling, in order to induce the secondary fermentation in bottle. The resultant sparkling wine was aged for more than 42 months in bottle before being disgorged with the addition of a...
terreaterre.com.au
We do agree that wine is subjective and we've come full circle now. Again have you tried all of the wines on the first lounge menu? If not, how have you made your subjective determination - by price?
The problem isn't the price....just the utter cough quality of the wines for what's meant to be a first class experience. Those wines would barely be passable in a J lounge IMHO.
We do agree that wine is subjective and we've come full circle now. Again have you tried all of the wines on the first lounge menu? If not, how have you made your subjective determination - by price?
Not all but I've tried a lot of them over the years. I also am quite knowledgeable when it comes to wine and have a fairly educated palate. IIRC though, the gripe with the QF F wine list was about the inferior quality of wines on offer, rather than subjective enjoyment of them.
I also don't need to try a wine to have a good idea whether I'll like it or whether it's a quality wine or not. A good tasting note would give me a good idea as well as an understanding of where the wine is from and how it was made.
I don't think anyone is saying every single wine on the list if of lesser quality. However, on the whole, it's a pretty poor wine list for a first class lounge, especially in comparison to what other airlines have in their first class lounges. The same can be said for the wine server onboard in J and F on QF.
I'm glad you mentioned Grange, because I was pondering this point in the shower this morning and decided 389 is good enough such that Grange isn't needed. This then made me wonder if you'd be happy with 389, as that isn't a particularly difficult or 'special' experience.
I quite like Bin 389 and IMO, it's certainly a decent offering from Penfolds. I'd happily take it any day over Max's. Is it "special" enough? Very subjective. I'd be fine with it. For me, it's priced at a point where I'd consider it more of a "special occasion" wine (i.e. something I might buy and consume for a special occasion, but otherwise a higher price point than I'd be comfortable in spending on a bottle of wine day to day). But that's just me, and for others, they may be less happy with seeing 389 as opposed to something else. All of this is not to suggest that I think price is the definitive factor of what is a decent offering in the First Lounge (as I hope I've made clear via this and earlier posts).
And to be fair to Qantas on the topic of Grange, it has been known to be (very) occasionally offered in the First Lounge.
The problem, imo, about a level of expectation about cellar door exclusives and hidden gems is supply. Qantas are trying to provide a seasonally consistent product - spring autumn summer winter. Is a hidden cellar door gem going to be able to provide the quality required for 3 months? If they can, will they have any left to sell to someone who has followed up after tasting in the first lounge?
That's fair, and I agree to a certain extent. The ability to ensure supply is important, but I certainly don't think it's an insurmountable challenge. I would absolutely agree that it's an opportunity for promotion and product placement. As for whether there's any left to sell to the public afterwards? Possibly less of an issue. Sometimes the drawcard is the exclusivity of only being able to experience it in a certain place. To use an extreme example (which I certainly acknowledge is not strictly apples with apples), consider JAL serving Salon Champagne in their First cabin (provided you're departing Haneda). At $1000/bottle, I'm sure not going to care whether I can buy a bottle after I land, but it's certainly an "exclusive" experience. My point is that I don't think it strictly matters whether you can buy a given wine beyond the First Lounge. I think it's partially about the experience, and specific to the wine producers, I think it's also about brand awareness. Perhaps you can't get that specific wine, but you might be inclined to explore what else they have to offer.
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