Current Union Activity - Tide of support turned against them?

Do you agree with what is happening at Qantas?

  • I agree with the union stance

    Votes: 69 27.8%
  • I agree with the Qantas stance

    Votes: 179 72.2%

  • Total voters
    248
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I was recently affected by cancellations due to a strike that was eventually called off. It turned my nice 8pm arrival to Bendigo into a dreadful 11:30pm.

I heard many people at the airport commenting about the "bloody unions" so I guess any public support they had is starting to turn against them.

I'll declare that I'm an ALP member
 
I find myself almost hoping that if they’re allowed to do stuff like that, Qantas could do something just as bad (not sure what), and point to what they did first as a reason to get away with it.

They could, and they are. They are slowly closing the business .... planes coming off routes. As the business shrinks, they'll need less workers and the 1000 job cuts recently announced will become 2000, then 3000 and so on.

Unless QF are willing to play the utlimate game of chicken, and essentially shut down operations completely for the duration, I suspect they will eventually give in to some degree. They'll be crunching the numbers in the back room and at some point their forecasts will show that if they slash say, 10,000 positions and shrink QF operations by a third, they can give those remaining some form of what they are asking for.

But this problem isn't going to go away, and its really just the first battles of the war. QF almost certainly will need to find a way to try and save the brand, but close local operations, they just can't afford to keep running with an intransigent and tenured workforce. Eventually this workforce, will be paid less than now, unfortunately even those who have been more reasonable, as they go and work for DJ or RedQ (Australian port servicing operations) when QF becomes a management company and sheds the legacy of the past by ceasing local flight operations.

Perhaps the Unions already realise this - their strategy teams couldn't possibly be completely stupid. Maybe this whole mess is all about accepting the near term probability of very serious job cuts, and this is a last ditch effort to amplify severance packages?
 
I do so much love negative people!

Build it and they will come! Tear it down and we'll all lose.

Has anyone else got any negative ideas as to how we can screw the "lucky country"?

JB
 
If Qantas unions keep going on with their disruptions, then Qantas may well finish up like Ansett did. Then none of them will have jobs. High time for unions to know their limits.:mad:
 
You don't have an "I don't agree with either side option".

Indeed.
The unions are living in cloud-cuckoo land if they think their job conditions and job security are writ in stone.
However the Qantas board made a monumental PR blunder by increasing Joyce's salary from $5 mil to $7 mil.
Who is worth that sort of money?
Certainly not the CEO of a company whose share price has halved, or worse, in a few years.
But this sort of behaviour is not rare in the world of business. They, too are living in fairy land if they think Joe Public doesn't consider their behaviour disgarceful.
 
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I agree with the union stand.If the CEO can increase his pay so should the staff.I am for a more equitable distribution of profit for everyone involve in the company.I am a shareholder and I Believe in social justice.Jobs should also be kept in Australia.Qantas is making profit and could make more by keeping his staff happy...unhappy staff...unhappy services...
 
The owners of a business are no longer allowed to run the business.

The first action which should be taken is run all the planes through a centre in Singapore or somewhere near and give them all a good service...whats that you say union chappies ? you turned up for work (at Syd/Melb etc) this morning and there wasn't anything for you to do !
aw....gosh...um....gee...err....!!!!!!!!,tough I say.
I've had nothing from Q for two years and now it will be another two (natural disasters excluded).
An A380 would not be big enough insofar as I am concerned.
 
The Unions are fighting in the knowledge that the more they go against QANTAS then jobs will be lost and they hope to get a "payout". Why, because QANTAS are aware of the diminishing returns due to insufficient seats being taken, and losing ground, and profits. This means that QANTAS will do the same as many of the US and other airlines in mothballing some aircraft, selling others, reducing flights, and of course reducing their payroll.
Both the Unions and QANTAS are not being "Upfront". The latter because the current situation allows them to cut flights and reduce their payroll by the strike days. The Union as usual are "scaremongering", to some extent with just cause, but with unrealistic claims. QANTAS are relying on the media hype about poor mr & Mrs Air Traveller to swing the pendulum against the Unions. Who wins -- QANTAS senior Execs and Union Execs, and they most likely are having a big laugh on us.
 
I'm a shareholder (no dividend for a while now and the share price is in the can) and a WP. I love the way I can book online, pay online and check-in online. I generally travel light, so I haven’t used the automated check in system yet.

As a WP, I have found the staff in the business lounge to be very helpful, courteous and efficient. When I call them, they are helpful, courteous and efficient. When I travel at the pointy end, they are helpful, courteous and efficient.

If I find myself in economy (and when I do it is almost always a fully flexible fare) they are, frankly, underwhelming. I do not know what happens to the cabin crew once they step through the curtain into economy, but it is not good. They seem to be profoundly unhappy and overzealous in wishing to share the unhappiness.

In the days before online self-service, the ground crew were less than underwhelming. I only persisted with QF because I could use the points for overseas travel.

I do not believe that the problem is management, or Alan Joyce’s salary. The problem is competition, costs and the long remnant of the public service culture at QF.

The world has changed. We all have to be more competitive. If you are unwilling to engage, do not expect the shareholders and the customers to carry the cost.
 
I agree with the union stand.If the CEO can increase his pay so should the staff.I am for a more equitable distribution of profit for everyone involve in the company...

This is a very simple way to view it and I'll provide you with a slightly deeper look (although still very basic), and -- as a shareholder you should at least have an understanding of HOW and WHY Qantas staff are paid what they are. Otherwise, why would you invest your money so blindly in Qantas shares????

Joyce's salary is tied directly to his personal performance and that of the entire organisation. His total vested remuneration is 9% lower than the past year (2010), and short term benefits are as much as 100% of his salary, representing no more than $5m in total annually. Keep in mind that Joyce's career as CEO is not even nearly as secure as mainline QF staff. He won't be CEO of QF in 10 years from now. Also, try finding someone of his calibur to do the job for less. Good luck.

On the flipside, plenty of QF staff have enjoyed job security with QF for DECADES -- and how many Qantas union based staff members would take a 9% paycut -- instantly - if they didn't perform? What if getting bags out of the plane and on the coursel late meant an immediate pay reduction?? The less risk involved in your job and/or the less you directly make$$ your employer, the less you will earn. Simple.

Also, if every one of the ~27,000 Qantas Airlines employees received a 5% pay increase like is claimed in some media - that is appox $100m/year in additional cost. Considering Qantas Airlines only made $112m profit in 2010 - you can see that this would be the end of the business. I won't even mention how QF staff are the highest paid in the country for their jobs... or that their perks are generous.. shall I continue....?

I'm all for fairness, equality and 'sharing the love' - but when you look at the FACTS - any educated person can figure out that this is one of those times when supporting unions is absolutely the WORST move you could make.
 
I agree there are " Two Sides to Every Story " but explain to me how a CEO can receive a huge Bonus when clearly he is not doing his job ( or worth it in my opnion ) and then in the same breath sack staff- create job's and buy Aircraft in Asia and maintain the Pride of The Flying Kangaroo " Qantas"...methinks there are a few " mince pies" being sent out to the Public...Bah Humbug..!!....

Qantas is slowly going down the gurgler which is a sorry state for it's loyal F/Flyers, the Australian public and our Country...The other operating airlines in Australia re laughing all the way to the Bank...

Grandma's Wings
 
Almost forgot in the heat of the moment...

My Nephew and his wife flew Business Class to New York on Business with Qantas... on the reutrn journey which was only 2 weeks ago..... Qantas " Bumped the wife" and wanted her hubby ( my Nephew) to continue the journey home to Australia.. hence there was a song & dance made to which Qantas put them both up in a hotel, and they continued their return flight home the following Day.... How can Qantas oversell two Business class seats....

" Not Happy Jan "....

Grandma's Wings.
 
Let me start by saying that I think Alan Joyce's pay rise was outrageous and insensitive and for that he should go. Secondly I think Qantas Staff are fantastic. Having said those 2 things I don't agree with the strike or the demands. The reality is that Qantas's future is at stake. Internationally Qantas cannot survive and thrive if it meets the demands of the Unions. In my opinion, Qantas Management should bring the Unions to a meeting and spell out the financially reallities of their situation. If the Unions are not prepared to modify their demands to fit Qantas's ability to pay, then the Qantas Board should try to find an overseas buyer and put the shareholders out of their misery
 
The Qantas saga illustrates three things:
1) Unions are a cancer on the Australian economy
2) Labor Governments always enable union cronyism to reach outrageous highs
3) It is far easier and more profitable to do business overseas.
 
I agree there are " Two Sides to Every Story " but explain to me how a CEO can receive a huge Bonus when clearly he is not doing his job ( or worth it in my opnion )

Everyone is entitled to an opinion of course. I am not a shareholder, let me get that right out front first. One reason for this is that the QF business has not been able to provide meaningful return on investment for many years.

The CEO can receive a huge bonus because the owners of the business felt it advanced thier cause in maintaining a viable business and in the hope that one day, maybe, they'll see a return.

As for doing or not doing his job. Again, everyone in the street has an opinion, me included, some comments on the radio recently have people emotively saying things like 'its Australias airline, not Joyces, he shouldn't be allowed to ruin it" - c'mon, sack up people, the airline belongs to the shareholders and they place, directly or indirectly, management and policy via a board (who is representative of the ownership).


and then in the same breath sack staff- create job's and buy Aircraft in Asia and maintain the Pride of The Flying Kangaroo " Qantas"...methinks there are a few " mince pies" being sent out to the Public...Bah Humbug..!!....

Qantas is slowly going down the gurgler which is a sorry state for it's loyal F/Flyers, the Australian public and our Country...The other operating airlines in Australia re laughing all the way to the Bank...

The ownership (shareholders) need only decide what they want. Its really as simple as that. If they want to run QF as a benevolent society with longstanding and/or newly appointed employees and management as the recipients of that largess then fine, they can make it happen by appointing the appropriate staff and run, not for profit, but for love.

If they want a return on their invested capital then they will choose a different path, as many major Australian brands have also chosen to do.

IMHO we're wrong to blame or speak ill of any Australian business which is simply trying to survive in difficult times under a given set of rules. If you _really_ want social justice and a return to local manufacuturing and jobs for all (for life) you simply must speak with or become a politician. Politics and the law that flows from governing bodies is what sets the framework for business to either thrive or die in any country.

If politicians, speaking on behalf of the majority of Australians, are allowing rampant capitalism, don't blame companies for implementing rampant capitalism ...
 
Let me start by saying that I think Alan Joyce's pay rise was outrageous and insensitive and for that he should go. Secondly I think Qantas Staff are fantastic.


I agree with you on that one !!!

Qantas need to re-think a lot of things... They are not flying where the public want to go.. and then one has to change to another of the " One World" carriers to get to their destination..... I mean who wants to fly to New York via Dallas Fort-Worth, have layover time there at the airport then continue on to their destination... Even the Travel Agents selling Qantas are having a hard time trying to satisfy their clients and make a profit...To get to Hawaii now I know of F/Flyers being put on Jetstar when they have paid through Qantas...

I still say... " Bah Humbug . !!!

Grandma's Wings.
 
Qantas need to re-think a lot of things... They are not flying where the public want to go.. and then one has to change to another of the " One World" carriers to get to their destination..... I mean who wants to fly to New York via Dallas Fort-Worth, have layover time there at the airport then continue on to their destination.

Grandma's Wings.
Are you saying that travelling via LAX is better than via DFW :?: :confused:

If so then I think you're dreaming :!:
 
I know of F/Flyers being put on Jetstar when they have paid through Qantas..

I'm with you on this one. The Jetstarisation of QF's old routes has pushed me away from the brand. They have swapped a quality brand for a LCC version of the worst variety. Its not a smooth transition for a QF thinking traveller. Once you realise you will be forced onto JQ (or 3K) the whole deal is opened up to the myriad competitors.
 
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