CX cancelled award U tickets issued by QF, 12h from takeoff (weather IRROPS)

[patrickw]

Sharing my experience and hopefully can get some further advice on WX IRROPS on cancelled partner award tickets.

Travelling with elderly family SYD > HKG> CAN on CX.
Have seen the posts on award cancellations from partner airlines and I feel like the perfect storm (well typhoon) / my worst fears have come true.

QF issued tickets on 2x CX flights - both cancelled due to inbound typhoon 12 hours before departure... understandable.

QF Reservations only offered a refund as availability was very difficult to find.
HUACA and offered SYD > WUH > XIY > CAN on a converted J ticket but I wasn't sure if they'd be able to ticket.
I said I'd call back after visiting CX in-person in 6 hours time before committing. Staying at the airport so may as well.
One of the family is in a wheelchair too, so multiple layovers; not great.

I've seen posts of people having a Oneworld team getting involved, but was advised by the knowledgeable agent they were only open from 7am-5pm AEST.

CX call center only offered X flights on 5 September - and not to sound entitled I kindly declined as it would be very uncomfortable for my family.
HUACA and currently in queue.

TIA for any input/comments/learnings on what not to do in future!

 

[kyle]

Not to use award flights especially if there are pax involved who are kids, have language difficulties or if not fully abled.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Since Qantas sold you the tickets they are on the hook to get you to your final destination. That you paid with points versus cash makes no difference in their obligation to you. I would ask them to provide me with some options. In particular, I should point out that QF has business class seats available on today's flight to HKG:


I would probably start by going to the international terminal of the airport, and in particular the ticketing desk for Qantas to get this sorted. I reckon they'll have a little more knowledge of what to do than someone in Cape Town. Again, it really shouldn't be hard, you encountered IRROPs, there is a procedure for all of this. It should be easy to do given the number of seats they have available. There doesn't need to be classic award inventory available since you are encountering irregular operations (IRROPs), and when irregular operations occur, the airline who ticketed you has to pick up the slack and make seats available. After all it was the airline who cancelled your flights and made these changes, not you. So it is on them to fix it.

I would call up QF as a last resort (and or if I'm waiting in line) and see what they can do. Basically it's game day you need to be proactive here because the longer you wait the fewer options will be available.

-RooFlyer88

 

[madrooster]

In short, you won't be going anywhere. CX has cancelled anything in/out of HKG for a 20h window starting tomorrow and QF127/128 today has been delayed by a whole day to Saturday.

 

[patrickw]

Since Qantas sold you the tickets they are on the hook to get you to your final destination. That you paid with points versus cash makes no difference in their obligation to you. I would ask them to provide me with some options. In particular, I should point out that QF has business class seats available on today's flight to HKG:
View attachment 341504

I would probably start by going to the international terminal of the airport, and in particular the ticketing desk for Qantas to get this sorted. I reckon they'll have a little more knowledge of what to do than someone in Cape Town. Again, it really shouldn't be hard, you encountered IRROPs, there is a procedure for all of this. It should be easy to do given the number of seats they have available. There doesn't need to be classic award inventory available since you are encountering irregular operations (IRROPs), and when irregular operations occur, the airline who ticketed you has to pick up the slack and make seats available. After all it was the airline who cancelled your flights and made these changes, not you. So it is on them to fix it.

I would call up QF as a last resort (and or if I'm waiting in line) and see what they can do. Basically it's game day you need to be proactive here because the longer you wait the fewer options will be available.

-RooFlyer88

RF88, this is incredibly helpful especially at this hour - thank you. I think that flight you shared was delayed to 2nd Sep. 1300 - hopefully not as full and availability will show up on EF properly.

CX has put us on flights but 4 days later - without accepting this via CX MMB, does this affect whether QF can go through that procedure?

Also, would I trigger a no-show based on if I don't accept the new flights from CX within 24 hours?

I might point out I got the creative SYD > WUH > XIY > CAN routing from one Fiji agent but not another.

In short, you won't be going anywhere. CX has cancelled anything in/out of HKG for a 20h window starting tomorrow and QF127/128 today has been delayed by a whole day to Saturday.

Totally expect to not travel until 2nd earliest...

 

[madrooster]

Also, would I trigger a no-show based on if I don't accept the new flights from CX within 24 hours?

You cannot no-show a flight that has been cancelled. Be warned that CX can obviously see the new flights are not ticketed and they may take those seats off you without warning if you don't accept/have the ticket reissued.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Be warned that CX can obviously see the new flights are not ticketed and they may take those seats off you without warning if you don't accept/have the ticket reissued.

The issue is CX is offering OP economy seats and quite frankly that's unacceptable. CX cancelled the flight so they should have no problem finding J inventory to put these folks onto another flight. There is never a requirement to find partner award availability in an IRROP scenario. The airline simply puts you into the cabin you were originally ticketed and that's it. If it comes from a revenue bucket so be it, it's the cost of doing business. OP could try calling CX back to see if they can sort it, but it might make sense to actually head to QF since QF operates flights to HKG and should be trivial for them to put take a couple of revenue seats out and rebook them into said seats.

The only uncertainty I see is whether OP would be able to find J availability for HKG to CAN. Then again, it's a one hour flight and I suspect they would be willing to "deal" with that sacrifice (and claim back the points for the involuntary downgrade later).

-RooFlyer88

 

[Princess Fiona]

The issue is CX is offering OP economy seats and quite frankly that's unacceptable. CX cancelled the flight so they should have no problem finding J inventory to put these folks onto another flight. There is never a requirement to find partner award availability in an IRROP scenario. The airline simply puts you into the cabin you were originally ticketed and that's it. If it comes from a revenue bucket so be it, it's the cost of doing business. OP could try calling CX back to see if they can sort it, but it might make sense to actually head to QF since QF operates flights to HKG and should be trivial for them to put take a couple of revenue seats out and rebook them into said seats.

The only uncertainty I see is whether OP would be able to find J availability for HKG to CAN. Then again, it's a one hour flight and I suspect they would be willing to "deal" with that sacrifice (and claim back the points for the involuntary downgrade later).

-RooFlyer88

Not possible.
QF is completely full on all its flights until Tuesday when they have 1 J seat available.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Since Qantas sold you the tickets they are on the hook to get you to your final destination. That you paid with points versus cash makes no difference in their obligation to you. I would ask them to provide me with some options. In particular, I should point out that QF has business class seats available on today's flight to HKG:
View attachment 341504

I would probably start by going to the international terminal of the airport, and in particular the ticketing desk for Qantas to get this sorted. I reckon they'll have a little more knowledge of what to do than someone in Cape Town. Again, it really shouldn't be hard, you encountered IRROPs, there is a procedure for all of this. It should be easy to do given the number of seats they have available. There doesn't need to be classic award inventory available since you are encountering irregular operations (IRROPs), and when irregular operations occur, the airline who ticketed you has to pick up the slack and make seats available. After all it was the airline who cancelled your flights and made these changes, not you. So it is on them to fix it.

I would call up QF as a last resort (and or if I'm waiting in line) and see what they can do. Basically it's game day you need to be proactive here because the longer you wait the fewer options will be available.

-RooFlyer88

I don’t believe your opening premise is correct.

Qantas has sold the tickets as agent for CX.

CX’s terms and conditions apply.

CX has IRROPS provisions, they have offered travel on the next available CX service. The passenger’s option is then to either accept that, or ask for a refund.

Over the years I have found CX to be pretty good during IRROPS. Proactively managing bookings issued by partners such as Qantas, AA and BA.

Agree with madrooster, if you still want to travel, accept the changes otherwise CX may think the passenger has opted for a refund.

KF88… I agree if QF sold the ticket for QF operated services, the QF contract of carriage would apply, and they’d be ‘on the hook’ to get the pax to CAN. But even then, it would be on the next available QF service. That could well be a couple of days away. A typhoon is outside the airline’s control.

 

[Flyfrequently]

I don’t believe your opening premise is correct.

Qantas has sold the tickets as agent for CX.

CX’s terms and conditions apply.

CX has IRROPS provisions, they have offered travel on the next available CX service. The passenger’s option is then to either accept that, or ask for a refund.

Over the years I have found CX to be pretty good during IRROPS. Proactively managing bookings issued by partners such as Qantas, AA and BA.

Agree with madrooster, if you still want to travel, accept the changes otherwise CX may think the passenger has opted for a refund.

KF88… I agree if QF sold the ticket for QF operated services, the QF contract of carriage would apply, and they’d be ‘on the hook’ to get the pax to CAN. But even then, it would be on the next available QF service. That could well be a couple of days away. A typhoon is outside the airline’s control.

Am following this with interest as we are on CX178 on Tuesday, then onward to AMS-LIS.
If CX cannot fly due to typhoon, that would be affecting other airlines ie QF?
Hope it works out well and easily for you @patrickw , please keep us updated with your outcome.

 

[Economy_Gold]

I would probably start by going to the international terminal of the airport, and in particular the ticketing desk for Qantas to get this sorted. I reckon they'll have a little more knowledge of what to do than someone in Cape Town.

As far as I am aware Qantas has removed all airport ticketing desks, including at SYD International. The only way to contact Qantas is really by phone (the best option in this difficult situation), via their online contact form and the social media channels.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Am following this with interest as we are on CX178 on Tuesday, then onward to AMS-LIS.
If CX cannot fly due to typhoon, that would be affecting other airlines ie QF?
Hope it works out well and easily for you @patrickw , please keep us updated with your outcome.

More than likely yes! And possibly it will affect other airlines more than CX.

A CX pilot told me that company aircraft will usually be the ‘last in’ and ‘first out’ when they have weather events… yes because it is CX’s base and they have more flights, but also because CX pilots may be more comfortable on the edges of conditions in which they’re comfortable to fly (where as airlines not familiar may take a more cautious approach).

Dunno how accurate that is, but it was reassuring at the time.

 

[RichardMEL]

imo this is all with CX and that QF sold the ticket (or sold with their points) is kind of irrelevant at this point, as this is now an operational issue. Very different to the well documented partner cancelling/QF non reticking issues that are months out from travel and most definitely on QF. CX's responsibility to get ticketed passengers to their destinations as best they can as per irrops policies.

Given the weather issues and a backlog of what 4 days to try and get that backlog of passengers to where they need to go, it's probaby the best option to take the offered Y flights to get to CAN in a "reasonable" amount of time. I mean what can anyone really do about typhoons - which would impact everyone.

At this point, imo, QF has very little to do with what happens (except, of course, providing a refund). If you all want to travel, it's with CX and seems like they're trying to do the best they can to get all pax to CAN ASAP. Yes, you booked J and I fully appreciate that, but really it's a choice of get there in a few days and do the things you and family want to do (as much as possible) or hold out and wait a lot longer for J seats. The problem is probably the number of pax to reaccom unfortunately.

good luck and best wishes.

Post automatically merged: Sep 1, 2023

More than likely yes! And possibly it will affect other airlines more than CX.

A CX pilot told me that company aircraft will usually be the ‘last in’ and ‘first out’ when they have weather events… yes because it is CX’s base and they have more flights, but also because CX pilots may be more comfortable on the edges of conditions in which they’re comfortable to fly (where as airlines not familiar may take a more cautious approach).

Dunno how accurate that is, but it was reassuring at the time.

It makes sense to me. They have local experience and support facilities with the conditions, and it's in their interest to get up and running ASAP. You'd certainly trust CX pilots to navigate around HK in weather than others who would rarely fly in or out of there just due to the experience factor.

 

[MelbFlyer]

I'm kind of a bit concerned now too - I have a QF flight to HK in business mid next month.

I then have a flight to Paris from HK also in business 24hrs later.

Hoping nothing changes and doesn't throw all my plans in disarray! I certainly wouldn't want to be downgraded to economy too, even if I get my points back.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'm kind of a bit concerned now too - I have a QF flight to HK in business mid next month.

Hoping nothing changes and doesn't throw all my plans in disarray!

Typhoons aren’t that common. I wouldn’t be too worried.

 

[Flyfrequently]

The flow on effect will be interesting to watch

 

[kamchatsky]

Given your final destination is CAN, can you push QF to find direct SYD-CAN on CZ (China Southern)?

 

[encryptededdy]

With a whole day of flights suddenly gone, I would not expect to be able to get on a J flight through Hong Kong within the next few days unless you get very lucky, especially if those flight were going out with nearly full loads anyway.

 

[TheInsider]

Given your final destination is CAN, can you push QF to find direct SYD-CAN on CZ (China Southern)?

In these situations it's up to CX to rebook, not QF.

 

[ShrinkWrapped]

It’s really hard to predict availability right now - CX have basically zero’ed out flight over the next 2-4 days to accommodate for the backlog. I’m not sure re: the threshold to re-route via another carrier vs next available CX flight. It’s all a bit ambiguous right now …. I’m in Seoul another night since my ICN-HKG is cancelled today. Shrug