CX What can I do?

[albyd]

I'm not sure where to post my experience below. If it belongs somewhere else, mods, please feel free to move it.

A few weeks ago, I had reward tickets in J for my 2 kids and I from HND to HKG. I saw multiple charges on my CC statement and initiated a chargeback for these extra charges with AMEX. Despite what appeared to be CX's initial pushback to Amex, I received a letter from AMEX it had all been resolved in my favor and I took the letter at face value and didn't double check my account. As it turned out, CX refunded the entirety of my taxes and without notifying me (even with an itinerary cancellation email which would have caught my attention), cancelled my tickets.

I was surprised to learn of this when I tried to check in at HND having been sent check in reminders (which to me would indicate there was nothing wrong) 2 hours before I showed up at the check in counter. I spent 90 mins (I was given other reasons for ticket cancellation which didn't sound right) on the phone with someone from AM call center in the Philippines who when my patience finally ran out, admitted there was nothing he could do - even take payment for the unpaid taxes wasn't an option.

With 5 mins until close of Check in, I sucked it up and bought new Y tickets for the three of us so we didn't ruin that leg of our holiday. $3K later (+3% AMEX currency fees), we had Y tickets for a 4.5 hour flight.

CX are now telling me to suck it up. Am I completely in the wrong or are CX just stonewalling me?

They might refund my points after not having done anything since they were cancelled but want me to pay cancellation penalties.

Is there anything I'm entitled to or just have to take this as a lesson and not book revenue or reward flights with CX going forward after my points have been exhausted?

You can't offend me with the truth. I don't think this is worth a long-pitched battle - I do have a day job - but I am incensed that this has happened and even to get my points back, after initially pretending everything was ok - they're now asking for cancellation penalties. I didn't cancel and turned up at check in. Does that not count for anything?

 

[Clayton]

Seems that the AMEX chargeback initiated the ticket cancellation, and CX probably felt they had no alternative when AMEX pushed back that the charges weren't valid. I personally would have contacted CX about the unexplained additional charges rather than initiated the chargeback.

 

[levelnine]

No way I'd ever initiate a chargeback with an airline I had an upcoming flight with. Suppliers hate them for good reason. You should have waited until the flight is done.

I'd be trying travel insurance in the first instance. You might be able to submit a claim on the basis that the airline wrongly cancelled your flight without warning or explanation.

 

[Mwenenzi]

Seems that the AMEX chargeback initiated the ticket cancellation, and CX probably felt they had no alternative when AMEX pushed back that the charges weren't valid. I personally would have contacted CX about the unexplained additional charges rather than initiated the chargeback.

Agreed. I would not have done a charge back claim until after the flight.
Can take a time for credit card debits/credits to settle.

 

[DC3]

… I saw multiple charges on my CC statement and initiated a chargeback for these extra charges with AMEX …

Too soon, Grasshopper, too soon. Hindsight, such a wonderful thing

 

[Pushka]

I'm not sure where to post my experience below. If it belongs somewhere else, mods, please feel free to move it.

A few weeks ago, I had reward tickets in J for my 2 kids and I from HND to HKG. I saw multiple charges on my CC statement and initiated a chargeback for these extra charges with AMEX. Despite what appeared to be CX's initial pushback to Amex, I received a letter from AMEX it had all been resolved in my favor and I took the letter at face value and didn't double check my account. As it turned out, CX refunded the entirety of my taxes and without notifying me (even with an itinerary cancellation email which would have caught my attention), cancelled my tickets.

I was surprised to learn of this when I tried to check in at HND having been sent check in reminders (which to me would indicate there was nothing wrong) 2 hours before I showed up at the check in counter. I spent 90 mins (I was given other reasons for ticket cancellation which didn't sound right) on the phone with someone from AM call center in the Philippines who when my patience finally ran out, admitted there was nothing he could do - even take payment for the unpaid taxes wasn't an option.

With 5 mins until close of Check in, I sucked it up and bought new Y tickets for the three of us so we didn't ruin that leg of our holiday. $3K later (+3% AMEX currency fees), we had Y tickets for a 4.5 hour flight.

CX are now telling me to suck it up. Am I completely in the wrong or are CX just stonewalling me?

They might refund my points after not having done anything since they were cancelled but want me to pay cancellation penalties.

Is there anything I'm entitled to or just have to take this as a lesson and not book revenue or reward flights with CX going forward after my points have been exhausted?

You can't offend me with the truth. I don't think this is worth a long-pitched battle - I do have a day job - but I am incensed that this has happened and even to get my points back, after initially pretending everything was ok - they're now asking for cancellation penalties. I didn't cancel and turned up at check in. Does that not count for anything?

Airlines can sometimes cancel everything if someone does a chargeback.

 

[albyd]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I think strategically, doing a chargeback when I could’ve waited until after the trip to ‘notice’ would have worked out better.

It sticks in my craw that CX get off Scott free especially after they didn’t let me know they’d cancelled the tickets & even sent me flight reminders but have to get on with it. Them’s the breaks.

 

[kpro]

A charge back is always the last resort, you need to try and work it out with the merchant in the first instance. How do you know you didn't initiate a charge back on the charges which actually related to your flights?

I think strategically, doing a chargeback when I could’ve waited until after the trip to ‘notice’ would have worked out better.

You should have called Cathay and asked why there was so many charges, and got them to refund the ones which were not legitimate.

 

[madrooster]

It sticks in my craw that CX get off Scott free especially after they didn’t let me know they’d cancelled the tickets & even sent me flight reminders but have to get on with it. Them’s the breaks.

It's likely that you may have inadvertently done a chargeback on legitimate charges and unfortunately with the 3 major card schemes, the majority of airlines will default to refunding the ticket if you state the transaction was unauthorised as there's no debate to be had for unauthorised charges.

It's possible they replaced the live flights with dummy passive flight segments in the PNR as part of that refunding process.

Unfortunately the 15below system used by CX (lots of airlines use it, including QF) struggles to differentiate between a dummy passive segment and a live confirmed segment in the PNR and still sends out the usual pre-departure comms eg. check in reminders.

I know that if I've got a PNR with QF content on it as a dummy passive segment, QF's 15below system still sends out the pre-departure SMSes/emails. Other airlines using 15below also do the same so I wouldn't be surprised if CX has the exact same setup.

 

[albyd]

@madrooster Thanks for your insight. CX haven't refunded my points but are now that I've brought it to their attention looking for cancellation penalty. Why would it have taken for me to pipe up about this and highlight the missing points multiple times for CX to suggest I could get them back if I pay the cancellation fines?

It sounds like this is a problem which happens with other airlines too. Why do I need to be solely financially accountable for a system limitation? Might there be some argument to at least avoid the cancellation fines as a small "win" for me?

 

[madrooster]

It sounds like this is a problem which happens with other airlines too. Why do I need to be solely financially accountable for a system limitation? Might there be some argument to at least avoid the cancellation fines as a small "win" for me?

I can agree with the fact 15below thinks a dummy passive segment is a live segment and therefore comms being sent accordingly being a system limitation.

However, your live seats were likely cancelled as part of the refund process triggered by your unauthorised charge chargeback request to Amex. It is common for airlines to replace the live seats with dummy passive segments for the same flights so there is a record of what the itinerary was.

If the live seats were indeed cancelled as part of the refund process, then at near departure, nothing could have changed as far as paying for a new redemption ticket as there would have been no live seats in the PNR to issue a ticket against. Assuming this is the case, then the airline was correct to require you to pay for a new set of commercial fares in order to travel.

If the live seats were still in the PNR, then there is no technical reason that they couldn't have just issued a new redemption ticket in the same PNR. If this was the case then I'm of the opinion they should've simply issued a new redemption ticket and allowed you to travel, providing you had sufficient spare miles in your account for a brand new charge of miles as the previous set of used miles would've still been tied to the old ticket that was refunded by chargeback.

That said, I would also agree with a stance that the booking is considered dead/refunded/no longer usable if they wanted to go with this, as you did do the chargeback in the first place. If CX took this stance, I would say they're well within their right to.

 

[albyd]

Thanks to everyone for your feedback. It sucks that I'm in the wrong but it's the truth and I'll get on with it.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I am surprised amex allowed the charge back without any undertaking that you had tried to sort this out with the supplier?

 

[encryptededdy]

Out of curiosity, would you be willing to share what the extra charges were? As in, what cost you expected to be charged (e.g. xx_ JPY per passenger x3) and what charges you actually got on your Amex?

I assume you booked online and not through a call center? Did you get any errors whilst trying to book?

I know for instance on Qantas if the booking errors out on the last step of their website (e.g. you tried split payment with a flight credit, but the flight credit was invalid), it will generate additional charges onto your card that will stick around for ages before they automatically refund.