Demand from AMEX

[markis10]

Markis10 - this is not an attack personal or other, I have only commented on what Gordon has posted in this thread and in others and made a single assumption in the previous post, one being that a part of the increase in AMEX fees attribute to the actions of people like Gordon whom owe money to AMEX and declear bankruptcy.


Mr!

No, your post specifically says that Gordon is the reason AMEX costs have gone up, the word "like" or "part" do not appear at all, lets be clear:

And everyone at AFF who gave such good advice in previous threads to Gordon's heart felt plees for help - heres one of the reasons our AMEX fees have increased.

Unless you are fully aware of both sides of the story you are hardly in a position to judge, and your personal experience is irrevelant since not all the facts are at hand.

I have also been subject to others bad debts which resulted in my bankruptcy many years ago, and I took the lesson away from the experience that I would improve my credit management in future with such debts, so that I never went down the same path. I did not take my experience as a licence to walk around with a chip on my shoulder or to put people down whom I perceive to be taking advantage of a situation.

Kudos to Gordon for taking responsibility for past actions and for seeking help, because help is what we are here to give hopefully!

 

[oz_mark]

And everyone at AFF who gave such good advice in previous threads to Gordon's heart felt plees for help - heres one of the reasons our AMEX fees have increased...

I would have thought it was more related to increased funding costs from the GFC. Bad debts are a fact of life for financial organisations such as Amex - it has always been and always will be built into their modelling, and part of their pricing reflects that risk.

 

[munitalP]

No, your post specifically says that Gordon is the reason AMEX costs have gone up, the word "like" or "part" do not appear at all, lets be clear:



Unless you are fully aware of both sides of the story you are hardly in a position to judge, and your personal experience is irrevelant since not all the facts are at hand.

I have also been subject to others bad debts which resulted in my bankruptcy many years ago, and I took the lesson away from the experience that I would improve my credit management in future with such debts, so that I never went down the same path. I did not take my experience as a licence to walk around with a chip on my shoulder or to put people down whom I perceive to be taking advantage of a situation.

Kudos to Gordon for taking responsibility for past actions and for seeking help, because help is what we are here to give hopefully!

At the risk of seeming argumentive with you Markis - I suggest you re-read all previous posts from the OP - I did before making any comments.

Mr!

 

[markis10]

At the risk of seeming argumentive with you Markis - I suggest you re-read all previous posts from the OP - I did before making any comments.

Mr!

I am trying to read the posts from Amex to get the other side of the story, there seem to be none .

I am sure the trustee of gordons estate will have the power to investigate all related transactions and reverse them as appropriate, as previously mentioned its illegal to attempt to gain advantage or preferrential treatment when it comes to payment of debts priori to bankruptcy.

I will leave comments on Gordons morals or reported actions to Gordon, as I have no value to add nor insight into the circumstances by which they took place, other than one sided posts with brief details, as for Amex's costs, ditto!

 

[Alanslegal]

At the risk of seeming argumentive with you Markis - I suggest you re-read all previous posts from the OP - I did before making any comments.

Mr!

@ Mr! - its a good time for a break mate.

Gordon's opening post was seeking views if he had any chance of denying such a demand, given that it was his belief that they were the one's who caused the error. You then reply, in post #7 which IMHO a personal attack saying Gordon was only here to rort the bankruptcy laws / systems and even suggested that he was enjoying being bankrupt, including coming here to brag about it - just so that people he owed money to can suffer.

IMO it would take alot of balls to open up, esp. in a forum, where frequent travelling and spending is the norm, and say "I'm in serious debt and am heading towards bankruptcy" - this is complete opposite to travels/holidays and spending which is what we're mostly here about.

Anyway the most beneficial outcome for Gordon is to repay the error amount, and request any interest that Amex has calculated from the date of error to the very first notice date - be waived.

 

[munitalP]

I am trying to read the posts from Amex to get the other side of the story, there seem to be none .

I am sure the trustee of gordons estate will have the power to investigate all related transactions and reverse them as appropriate, as previously mentioned its illegal to attempt to gain advantage or preferrential treatment when it comes to payment of debts priori to bankruptcy.

I will leave comments on Gordons morals or reported actions to Gordon, as I have no value to add nor insight into the circumstances by which they took place, other than one sided posts with brief details, as for Amex's costs, ditto!

Ive said my bit, I'll come join you on that side of the fence for a beer


Mr!

 

[JohnK]

No, your post specifically says that Gordon is the reason AMEX costs have gone up, the word "like" or "part" do not appear at all, lets be clear:

It did not come across as a personal attack to me.

In fact munitalP posted "heres one of the reasons our AMEX fees have increased".

Kudos to Gordon for taking responsibility for past actions and for seeking help, because help is what we are here to give hopefully!

At the risk of this coming out as a personal attack in my opinion arrogance and living it up during bankruptcy are not taking responsibility for past actions. In fact I would say it was the exact opposite.

Consider the fact that some people are in more financial trouble than Gordon but cannot take the easy way out as they have too much to lose.

 

[Alanslegal]

When I'm not paying annual fees nor paying any monthly interest, I can safely tell Amex to increase whatever they like. However when they start doing something that affects ME, then I will attempt to negotiate and walk away if I have to. Its called Choice and we all have it.

If you single out Gordon as one of the reasons Amex fees have increased, then I will extend this further and say "there has to be tens of thousand of reasons why Amex have increased their fees".

 

[opusman]

If you single out Gordon as one of the reasons Amex fees have increased, then I will extend this further and say "there has to be tens of thousand of reasons why Amex have increased their fees".

Handing out millions of unbudgeted-for reward points last year, for one

 

[straitman]

I am trying to read the posts from Amex to get the other side of the story, there seem to be none .

That is correct :!:

Gordon did ask the question(s) and people answered in their own way and obviously that is different for each of us.

I do have an opinion, however I will not post it due to the risk of reigniting the fire.

Gordon, best wishes with sorting out the whole situation.

 

[bambbbam2]

Handing out millions of unbudgeted-for reward points last year, for one

 

[medhead]

The best scenario I would expect is if you returned the money and then could argue about the interest component and negate that.

However I'm assuming you have spent the money and I believe it would be difficult to argue you are in the right if you knew prior to accepting the cheque that it was a banking error and the money was not yours to have.

At risk of mentioning the war (I mentioned it once, but i think I got away with it)

I don't agree with this. I'll explain by an example. I once had a job, 12 month contract. They terminated said contract after 10 months on the off pay week (fortnightly pay). My next pay recieved as usual on the pay week, was for the usualy amount. Note I noticed the pay amount at the time and thought it wrong. I went to work on the pay day to look for my pay slip, not there and was received by post a week later.

Month later I get a letter demanding repayment. Ok, so the money was not mine. But I wrote back and explained the steps I'd take to check the payslip. I mentioned the fact that I had leave and other things owing. I said that without being about to verify the situation because of the lack of communication from them that I'd assumed that the payment was correct. And in any case the money was spent. I offered to repay at $5 per fortnight. (1991 so quite a reasonable offer)

There were some other issues about how they terminated the contract, but nothing of substances to support my case, just implication type things. And thedy let me keep the money, they dropped it.

I think this situation is similar to Gordon's, like me the money was not his to take. But the fact is that he followed their instructions and he can only accept that they got it right. And if the bank gets it wrong that is their problem.

 

[CO BNE]

At risk of mentioning the war (I mentioned it once, but i think I got away with it)

I think this situation is similar to Gordon's, like me the money was not his to take. But the fact is that he followed their instructions and he can only accept that they got it right. And if the bank gets it wrong that is their problem.

So if the bank makes the mistake it's their problem. Lets remove big corporates out of the picture and imagine you had made a banking error and transferred money to a third party and they spent it.

Your problem or theirs?

 

[Natt]

Being rather opinionated I just cant resist putting in my 2c

and here it is:

This post has nothing to do with Amex/Frequent Flyer loyalty things

Its one persons questions about a banking/bankruptcy issue

for whatever reason the OP wants to raise the issue I don't think its appropriate here.

I can't even get my head around the whole issue - but I suspect it distills down to one of two things

1) a bank error was made and this was taken advantage of - if the wife gained from this error then its her that needs to pay (and she is not the bankrupt so has access to funds from the banks POV). Its just like 5 grand showing up in your account by mistake and being spent

2) the payment from a person that becomes bankrupt can be recovered in some cases - this I don't know much about - but I suspect given the bank is requesting its not this one (but it can happen)

Bottom line is you are not a bad person or a pariah if you declare bankruptcy - but neither is it something good.

And having a good income, but getting into so much debt that you declare bankruptcy (without something like a medical bill for life threatening illness etc) requires some soul searching and behavior modification.

None of that has manifested in the OP, hence peoples frustrations.

And to continually answer these posts is almost enabling the OP. And is not fair to him.

And if he has taken advantage of a bank error this is theft (although some may debate that ethicaly, legally it is) , and rationalising it does not change it.

Its an offence and endless discussions legitimise it. And legitimising an illegal act is a bad thing on a forum.

Can we please stay on FF issues? I love this place these threads make me very grumpy