Denied boarding and Premium Economy down grading – compensation if flying to EU

[Julian P]

Virgin Atlantic reply received 10.Feb.10

Whilst Virgin do admit "inexcusable delay", staffing problems and a backlog of customer relations letters, despite the delay this letter adds nothing new but seems to merely review the notes on the file already. Appears not to be an official response to letter before Court proceedings.

The letter does give some insite into the partial refund received - she says that the refunds team would have calculated the fare difference.

From Virgin Atlantic Customer Relations:

Dear Mr P,

Thank you for your recent emails.

I would like to firstly apologise for the inexcusable delay in being able
to reply. Amongst other issues some of our team have unfortunately left usand whilst we have been training newer colleagues, a backlog has been
created.

I’m purely offering this as an explanation and not an excuse, and would
like to assure you we are working through this quickly and efficiently.
Having now has the opportunity to read over all your previous
correspondence, I have to also say how sorry I am to learn of the problems you faced on this occasion.

I believe my colleague Johanna has gone some way to look into and answers the points you have outlined. However I have looked into this again to see if I can add to this.

There are accompanying notes within your original booking to show what our London Heathrow ground team rebooked you for. To fly with Qantas in their Premium Economy cabin to Singapore, and then with Singapore Airlines in Economy on to Sydney.

Our refunds team would have calculated the fare difference upon instruction and also had access to your flight information in order to work this out.


An agent from Expedia, I believe, also called to query this too.
Having also looked at your booking, I can see your return date is currently
booked for the xx April.

I hope I have been able to answer your additional points more clearly, and
that you will have an enjoyable flight to the UK come April.

Kind regards

Emma Johnston
Customer Relations Executive
Virgin Atlantic

 

[Julian P]

Still no reply from Virgin Atlantic. Do I really have to sue to get their attention?

Dear Virgin Atlantic,

I have received no reply at all to me letter before action below.

Unless you respond within the next 7 days I will commence Court proceedings without further notice. These letters will be shown to the Court at the appropriate time.
--
J


On 10 February 2010 08:15, J wrote:

Emma,

Thanks for your email - obviously there are staffing issues as getting a straight answer is taking so long. I sent the email below and 14 days expires on Friday 12 February.

You guys are doing everything possible to avoid the letter of the law - 75% refund of ticket price for downgrading - and I still do not have your calculations for the apparently random refund that you did make and whether this included interest for late payment.

Letter before County Court Action - 14 days notice

Whilst the email below was acknowledged automatically on 16 December, I have not received a reply.

I have received a refund of £183 on 29 December 2009 direct to my account:
29 Dec 2009 DEBIT CARD REFUND VIR ATL REFUND DEPT GBR GBP 183.00

However, the downgrading law is clear as below - 75% of the ticket price must be refunded for downgrading and no conditions are attached to this refund as you have weekly claimed.

Therefore, please pay the remainder within the next 14 days or I will start County Court action without further notice, claim to include costs and interest.
--
J

 

[anat0l]

Still no reply from Virgin Atlantic. Do I really have to sue to get their attention?

Perhaps you will have to, if you have the will to do so. This has been going on for a very long time now without a single peep or action out of anyone!

 

[NYCguy]

Perhaps you will have to, if you have the will to do so. This has been going on for a very long time now without a single peep or action out of anyone!

Yes. I woud suggest to the OP that it's high time to walk away and get on with his life.

Or go ahead and sue. VS will hire a phalanx of QCs to prepare their case and represent them in court. Since the disagreement is over such a small sum of money, one really has to ask whether it's worth fighting about, or even expending any more energy being outraged about. Since losing the case is likely, the OP will probably be stuck with the legal fees too. I imagine that the airline will be just as keen to prove a point as the plaintiff is. But hey, if the OP wants to throw rocks at the hornet's nest...

 

[Dave Noble]

Yes. I woud suggest to the OP that it's high time to walk away and get on with his life.

Or go ahead and sue. VS will hire a phalanx of QCs to prepare their case and represent them in court.

Which would be at Virgin's own cost

Since losing the case is likely, the OP will probably be stuck with the legal fees too.

Not for a case lodged in the small claims track of the county courts system. Legal fees for either side would be at own expense. The UK procedures for small claims are v straightforward and no reason to use solicitors and iirc cannot use barristers

 

[JohnK]

Still no reply from Virgin Atlantic. Do I really have to sue to get their attention?

Very sad that Virgin Atlantic has not been able to resolve this issue by now unless they believe they have already resolved the issue with the last email they sent.

Very disappointing and I would certainly take the matter further to a small claims court....

 

[Julian P]

Virgin Atlantic are obviously very short staffed in their customer service, this reply finally received today more than a month after giving 14 days notice of Court action:

From Virgin Atlantic:

Dear Mr P
Thank you for your recent emails.
In light of the outstanding concerns you have, I have contacted our refunds
team on your behalf.
I have requested they send you a breakdown of how they reached the £183
that has been refunded back to you. As we are not trained in refunds or
their procedures, we are unfortunately not in a position to disclose this
information from here in customer relation.
The team can check their records and send you details of how the amount was
reached. I have also passed on your email address to them so they can send
you their calculations as soon as possible.
Should you wish to contact our refunds team directly, you would be welcome
to via the below methods:
Virgin Atlantic Airways,
UK Refunds,
PO Box 340,
LU6 9LF
Fax: 01293 444456
Email: [email protected]
In order to help them locate your claim, you will need to have your booking
reference number or ticket number to hand.
I’m so sorry that we cannot help any further from this department and I
hope our refunds team explanations will prove helpful.
We looking forward to seeing you on board soon.
Kind regards

Emma Johnston
Customer Liaison Manager
Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd

 

[Mal]

Nice promotion for the airline staffer in just 2 months

 

[Will]

What rubbish.
Sue them and see how quickly they offer a (non-liability accepting) payment.
They obviously aren't paying you much attention now, but when the court documents hit the legal department, someone with the ability to fix things will see what's been happening and hopefully make it right before anyone needs to actually go to court.

 

[NM]

Virgin Atlantic are obviously very short staffed in their customer service, this reply finally received today more than a month after giving 14 days notice of Court action

So did you start the court action 14 days ago? What is the status of the action?

 

[Dave Noble]

What rubbish.
Sue them and see how quickly they offer a (non-liability accepting) payment.
They obviously aren't paying you much attention now, but when the court documents hit the legal department, someone with the ability to fix things will see what's been happening and hopefully make it right before anyone needs to actually go to court.

In a small claim in the UK there can be no need for anyone to go to court and they can just respond to the claim when it is lodged and posted to them and send back to court for consideration

 

[Julian P]

159 days and 20+ emails after being bumped and downgraded, Virgin Atlantic have finally (not very politely) explained the reasons behind their refund amount.

It is clear that they DO accept that the Singapore - Sydney flight was subject to EU law of 75% refund so this should be taken into account by other travellers in future:

Dear Mr P,

We have been contacted by our Customer Relations Department with regard to your refund.

A refund of £183.00 was credited to your card on 24 December 2009 . This was for the sector SIN-SYD which you were downgraded on SQ. The coupon value of that sector is 244.00 which x 75% = £183.00 which is the amount that was refunded back to you and was also authorised by our Manager. We also believe that you received 300 Euro's as well.

We regret to advise that we are unable to offer you anything further with regard to a refund.

Kind regards


Tracey Tullett
Passenger Revenue Services
Virgin Atlantic Airways Ltd, The Office (NE1),
Manor Royal, Crawley, RH10 9NU, UK

and my reply:

Thanks Tracy,

Only 159 days waiting and about 20 emails to get your explanation - better late than never, even if it was not very polite!

Perhaps you could feed back that Virgin Atlantic's post bump & downgrading service levels add insult to injury?

Mr P

I await the return flight on Virgin Atlantic with some trepidation. Just booked my next return SYD-LHR on Singapore Airlines.

 

[anat0l]

I see no rudeness as such from their last communication, apart from the absence of any empathy. Put into context, it probably would have been nice to have offered at least some apology for the delay (better if they included some goodwill gesture, but not holding breath over one).

So that shuts the book on that case.

 

[Mal]

A refund of £183.00 was credited to your card on 24 December 2009 . This was for the sector SIN-SYD which you were downgraded on SQ. The coupon value of that sector is 244.00 which x 75% = £183.00 which is the amount that was refunded back to you and was also authorised by our Manager. We also believe that you received 300 Euro's as well.

So where can I get a $A800 return journey from SIN-SYD in PE? (And before anyone comments - yes I realise a coupon can be worth less than a journey based on how coupons fit together).

Have you given up, or are you progressing to legal action?

 

[Dave Noble]

I don't see anything impolite in what was mailed. It seems to be just addressing the issue and explains where they got the GBP183 from. What impolietness is there?

 

[Cocitus23]

I don't see anything impolite in what was mailed. It seems to be just addressing the issue and explains where they got the GBP183 from. What impolietness is there?

The impoliteness is that there was no acknowledgment of, or apology for, the 159 day delay, the 20+ emails or the need to threaten legal action, to get any response at all. Communication is about more than stating bare facts, but addressing the feelings of the other person. In all the circumstances, I agree with Julian P - It is an impolite reply.

Julian P, you may consider yourself a victor in this dispute. You handled yourself with dignity throughout, which is more than can be said for Virgin Atlantic. The outcome might not have delivered you as much cash as you might have hoped for, but none-the-less, the incident has exacted a toll on Virgin Atlantic. No, not the 183 quid, but the negative publicity of the 70+ responses to this thread.

 

[JohnK]

I don't see anything impolite in what was mailed. It seems to be just addressing the issue and explains where they got the GBP183 from. What impolietness is there?

Impolite in many ways.

I cannot see how any airline can justify the difference between premium economy and economy SIN-SYD is only GBP183. And I do not care how an airline justifies how a coupon is issued or calculated. Can you please direct me to a full service that has premium economy so cheap?

This was a clear downgrade which, almost, deserved a full refund for that sector between premium economy and economy airfares on QF....

 

[Dave Noble]

whether agreeing with the analysis that they have made over the calculation of the refund amount, the reply seems to be just a simple brief description of their analysis. what rudeness is there from the person writing that letter?

 

[JohnK]

Come on Dave I do not need more infractions on AFF.

Why are you taking the airlines side? They do not need your assistance. The reply was 159 days and 20+ emails from the actual incident which was not acknowledged at any stage. They would not get this far if it happened to me.

No point carrying on with this discussion as 99.2% of people agree with the OP....

 

[tuapekastar]

Given the context of an ongoing exchange of mails between the OP and the airline, I can understand that the OP may not be happy with the latest reply.

But IMO when read in isolation there is nothing rude per se in the reply. It is fairly terse, and may not say what the OP wishes to hear (and I think the OP has a case), but not impolite.