Did this one slip past the collective....KE631

[jb747]

One of the Philippines' busiest airports shuts down after crashed plane blocks its only runway

The flights' 162 passengers and 11 crew members all escaped uninjured.

www.abc.net.au

 

[AIRwin]

What little-known airline pleasantly surprised you?

Any recent experience with Phillipine Airlines? Not since Covid but before that several times thought they were great and far better than QF in many regards

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[jb747]

I love the quote you attached to it!

 

[AIRwin]

I love the quote you attached to it!

That's why I decided to post it there...

 

[eastwest101]

Is that all the remains of the precision approach lighting system with all the wires and steel cable draped over the fuselage? If so that's a good effort to collect all that at the end of the over-run, that's going to take some fixing once the aircraft is removed. Considering it was the 3rd attempt at approach and landing I have seen unconfimed reports that the second aborted heavy landing might have caused some undercarriage/tyre or brake damage?

 

[jb747]

Is that all the remains of the precision approach lighting system with all the wires and steel cable draped over the fuselage? If so that's a good effort to collect all that at the end of the over-run, that's going to take some fixing once the aircraft is removed.

Here you go. Never seen the lights end up like this before...

https://static1.simpleflyingimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2022/10/GettyImages-1244185378.jpg?q=50&fit=contain&w=1140&h=&dpr=1.5

Considering it was the 3rd attempt at approach and landing I have seen unconfimed reports that the second aborted heavy landing might have caused some undercarriage/tyre or brake damage?

There's the standard noise in places like pprune, and from experience I know that 95% of it is rubbish, but with the occasional hidden gem.

Looking at the FR24 data for the second approach, and I'm not convinced that it touched down, but if it did then it was only momentary. The altitude traces don't reflect any sort of ground roll. Whilst touching down in a go around is certainly a possibility, they're generally not hard. Going around from a high bounce is certainly possible (and the right thing to do), but it was nice stable approach so not something you'd expect.

I haven't found any decent images from the rear, but in one side shot it appears that the main gear doors are open. That would indicate an hydraulic issue, and a possible 'alternate' gear extension. Loss of an hydraulic system would most likely also take away one reverser. Looking beyond that though, I can't pick the reversers as being open on either engine. The speed data from FR24 doesn't look too bad until you get below 100 knots, and it just seems to stagnate in the mid 90s until the end. One pprune theory (which may not be worth the paper it's written on) is that they damaged an air/ground switch on the second landing, with the result that the aircraft thought it was still flying. That would disable the ground spoilers (though you could still manually get the speedbrake configuration), reverse thrust, and possibly the brake anti skid.

In any event, there's more to this...

 

[RooFlyer]

Aviation Herald provides more detail, such as saying Captain confirmed the hard 'touchdown' second attempt. Can't judge reliability though.

The Aviation Herald

Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

avherald.com

What might have caused the hole on the top, aft of the coughpit?

 

[jb747]

Aviation Herald provides more detail, such as saying Captain confirmed the hard 'touchdown' second attempt. Can't judge reliability though.

The Aviation Herald

Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

avherald.com

What might have caused the hole on the top, aft of the coughpit?

The hole in the top was possibly caused by some part of the lighting system going over the top. Either that or someone's ego departing.

Without access to the exact state of the aircraft, and using limited images, plus not having the actual manuals for the aircraft, it's always a guessing game trying to work out what happened. There are two scenarios that seem to work though. One is the loss of two hydraulic systems. That will lead to a landing with no flaps/slats (but they were already out), no reverse, and no anti skid. It can lead to total loss of braking if the pedals aren't manipulated correctly. As a bonus, there's no autopilot and law reversion. Open gear doors might indicate this, and if you look at FR24, the height control during the second go around, and holding is pretty rough, which might fit in with this. Fuel state becomes even more interesting if they're holding in a partially dirty state.

If this was caused by the second landing then it must have been a beauty. So many 'ifs' though.

 

[Saab34]

One pprune theory (which may not be worth the paper it's written on) is that they damaged an air/ground switch on the second landing, with the result that the aircraft thought it was still flying. That would disable the ground spoilers (though you could still manually get the speedbrake configuration), reverse thrust, and possibly the brake anti skid.

Does Airbus have anything in the books in what to do if for some reason the air/ground switch is not giving you all of the above?

 

[jb747]

Does Airbus have anything in the books in what to do if for some reason the air/ground switch is not giving you all of the above?

No, and I see reasons for them preferring it to consider itself in the air. If you could force it, then it would probably have the effect of enabling in-flight reverse. The A380 simply says "crew awareness".

No reverse is a relatively normal operation, though not desirable on a wet runway. Anti skid is pretty much the same. No spoilers can be countered by selecting maximum spreedbrake. Not quite the same thing, but close. The big but in all of this is that it was very wet runway, their fuel state is unknown, but may have been forcing action, and having planted it so badly on the second landing, their mental state might not have been the best. Not a great recipe. I suspect that it could have been done, but you'd need to tilt things in your favour as much as possible.