Different award availability between OneWorld ff programmes: QF gets less!

[madrooster]

@madrooster thanks for your insight. Seems QR has tightened their availability for QF customers since last year as I had much less trouble then - could almost take my pick of departure days when looking at a similar time of year.
Anyway, do you think there's any prosepct in your experience of QR improving availability closer to the travel date (May 21)?

QR does release additional award inventory closer to travel if loads are low. I would not recommend holding out for it though, if it's an important trip.

 

[RichardMEL]

Of course this doesn't just happen in OW.

Some airlines have agreements, or some just decide for their own reasons to block inventory. One well documented example is SQ blocking UA access to F (and J on some) aircraft types like the A380. You simply can't get any inventory even if the cabin is empty and Lifemiles or whoever can book heaps. Again this is a known situation.. which as unfair as it is for UA people is at least known rather than what QR appears to be doing (but again this could be a QR-QF agreement, or QR "punishing" QF for their EK alliance, or because Al Baker doesn't like Joyce or whatever).

I wonder if QF limits inventory to QR in return?

 

[KVS]

I do not think that using a VPN is not going to change the point of sale for FF redemption. I expect all QFF redemption tickets are issued by QF the same country from a point of sale perspective, no matter where your browser session appears to be located. This will either be the country where the first flight in the itinerary departs (if QF has a ticketing presence there) or Australia. So changing your perceived location via a VPN will not make any difference to the "point of sale" as far as the fare sale is concerned.

QF FF POS country can be explicitly selected in the KVS Tool, but this is not a POS issue.



QR does make less award seats available to all QF FF POSs:

[KVS Tool 9.9.4/Diamond - Awards/JL-OneWorld/AU]

MEL  Melbourne Metro / Tullamarine VI AU = MEL AVV [YMML]
DOH  Doha Hamad Intl QA [OTHH]
THU  16 Jul 2020

Carrier    Flight  From  Depart    To    Arrive    A/C  St  Award Availability
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  ------------------
QR         905     MEL   22:15     DOH   05:45 +1  351  0   CS2  YS9
QF         610     MEL   09:20     BNE   11:30     73H  0   YS9
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1  351  0   CS4  YS9
QF         626     MEL   16:20     BNE   18:30     73H  0   YS9
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1  351  0   CS4  YS9
QF         462     MEL   16:00     SYD   17:25     73H  0   YS9
 -> QR     909     SYD   21:55     DOH   05:50 +1  351  0   CS4
QF         470     MEL   17:00     SYD   18:25     73H  0   CS2  YS9
 -> QR     909     SYD   21:55     DOH   05:50 +1  351  0   CS4
QF         478     MEL   18:00     SYD   19:25     73H  0   CS2  YS9
 -> QR     909     SYD   21:55     DOH   05:50 +1  351  0   CS4
QF         610     MEL   09:20     BNE   11:30     73H  0   YS9
 -> QF     525     BNE   12:15     SYD   13:50     73H  0   YS9
 -> QR     909     SYD   21:55     DOH   05:50 +1  351  0   CS4
QF         610     MEL   09:20     BNE   11:30     73H  0   YS9
 -> QF     549     BNE   18:10     SYD   19:45     73H  0   CS4
 -> QR     909     SYD   21:55     DOH   05:50 +1  351  0   CS4
QF         448     MEL   14:00     SYD   15:25     73H  0   CS2
 -> QF     536     SYD   16:05     BNE   17:35     73H  0   CS2
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1  351  0   CS4  YS9
QF         462     MEL   16:00     SYD   17:25     73H  0   YS1
 -> QF     546     SYD   18:55     BNE   20:25     73H  0   YS1
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1  351  0   CS4  YS9
QF         470     MEL   17:00     SYD   18:25     73H  0   CS2  YS1
 -> QF     546     SYD   18:55     BNE   20:25     73H  0   CS2  YS1
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1  351  0   CS4  YS9

[KVS Tool 9.9.4/Diamond - Awards/QF-OneWorld/UK]

MEL  Melbourne Metro / Tullamarine VI AU = MEL AVV [YMML]
DOH  Doha Hamad Intl QA [OTHH]
THU  16 Jul 2020 | 2 Seats

Carrier    Flight  From  Depart    To    Arrive         St  Award Availability
---------  ------  ----  --------  ----  --------  ---  --  ------------------
QR         905     MEL   22:15     DOH   05:45 +1       0   CS-  YS+
QF         610     MEL   09:20     BNE   11:30          0   CS-  YS+
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+
JQ         564     MEL   12:25     BNE   14:30          0   CS-  YS+
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+
QF         626     MEL   16:20     BNE   18:30          0   CS-  YS+
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+
JQ         576     MEL   17:20     BNE   19:30          0   CS-  YS+
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+
JQ         506     MEL   11:00     SYD   12:25          0   CS-  YS+
 -> JQ     818     SYD   18:05     BNE   19:35          0   CS-  YS+
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+
QF         436     MEL   11:00     SYD   12:25          0   CS+  YS+
 -> QF     530     SYD   14:05     BNE   15:35          0   CS+  YS+
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+
QF         440     MEL   12:00     SYD   13:25          0   CS+  YS+
 -> JQ     818     SYD   18:05     BNE   19:35          0   CS-  YS+
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+
QF         440     MEL   12:00     SYD   13:25          0   CS+  YS+
 -> QF     530     SYD   14:05     BNE   15:35          0   CS+  YS+
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+
QF         440     MEL   12:00     SYD   13:25          0   CS+  YS+
 -> QF     536     SYD   16:05     BNE   17:35          0   CS+  YS+
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+
JQ         510     MEL   13:15     SYD   14:40          0   CS-  YS+
 -> JQ     818     SYD   18:05     BNE   19:35          0   CS-  YS+
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+
QF         448     MEL   14:00     SYD   15:25          0   CS-  YS+
 -> JQ     818     SYD   18:05     BNE   19:35          0   CS-  YS+
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+
QF         448     MEL   14:00     SYD   15:25          0   CS+  YS-
 -> QF     536     SYD   16:05     BNE   17:35          0   CS+  YS-
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+
JQ         514     MEL   15:00     SYD   16:25          0   CS-  YS+
 -> JQ     818     SYD   18:05     BNE   19:35          0   CS-  YS+
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+
QF         470     MEL   17:00     SYD   18:25          0   CS+  YS-
 -> QF     546     SYD   18:55     BNE   20:25          0   CS+  YS-
 -> QR     913     BNE   22:15     DOH   06:10 +1       0   CS-  YS+

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The availability that BA/AA sees, is confirmable. It's not phantom availability - I have confirmed this by actually selling the inventory repeatedly in every single scenario I have encountered by checking in the respective airline offices (not simply calling in and 'trusting' the call centre agent).

How do you sell the inventory? If you book the award via a partner airline's program (rather than the one you client is wanting), does the award go back into inventory once you no longer proceed with the booking? Or is the seat withdrawn?

 

[madrooster]

How do you sell the inventory? If you book the award via a partner airline's program (rather than the one you client is wanting), does the award go back into inventory once you no longer proceed with the booking? Or is the seat withdrawn?

In a GDS you can confirm the inventory without actually saving the inventory. Dropping the hold returns the seats to inventory the majority of the time. This is something you cannot do on a website - no PNR is ever created in this case whereas a website would make a PNR and save the inventory into a PNR.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Dropping the hold returns the seats to inventory the majority of the time.

So the seat could be lost?

 

[madrooster]

So the seat could be lost?

I've found it to be quite rare. I've had it happen just twice in many years. That said I'm deliberately tinkering with inventory that I don't want - I wouldn't tinker with inventory that I actually want.

 

[adenda]

As someone with access with Amadeus who handles award bookings regularly, I can confirm that QR does give less availability to QF for their award inventory.

I've seen and confirmed multiple scenarios where QR will give 4 seats to most other major oneworld carriers, but only 2 or 3 to QF. I have also seen cases where QR will give 3 to other oneworld carriers, but zero to QF.

The most common scenario as stated already, is -1 compared to BA/AA.

The availability that BA/AA sees, is confirmable. It's not phantom availability - I have confirmed this by actually selling the inventory repeatedly in every single scenario I have encountered by checking in the respective airline offices (not simply calling in and 'trusting' the call centre agent).

Reviving this discussion as I've starting putting a toe in the water for a 2022 OWA booking.
Does anyone know if a single available J award seat on QR from Aus to DOH was booked via QF would QR then release another J award seat (on a flight where BA shows, say, 4 seats available)?

If so might be able to make 2 separate bookings for 2 passengers (which are subsequently linked) to get around the 1 J seat availability limit that QR is imposing on flights out of Australia - which they're still doing.

 

[Captain Halliday]

I’m seeing J2 for a range of dates in 2022 so it might just be the flights you’re looking at.

 

[adenda]

I’m seeing J2 for a range of dates in 2022 so it might just be the flights you’re looking at.

Could be.
Direct flights to DOH? From which city and which dates (approximately) are you seing them?

 

[Captain Halliday]

A range of dates in late March from all five major capital cities.

 

[adenda]

A range of dates in late March from all five major capital cities.

Just searched all of March for 2 x J MEL to DOH and found nothing except via KUL and HKG. Did you find any direct flights?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Just searched all of March for 2 x J MEL to DOH and found nothing except via KUL and HKG. Did you find any direct flights?

I just searched and nothing for 2 pax ex MEL, only looked 16 March onwards.

 

[Captain Halliday]

I’m searched through to Europe, so I suspect it’s either an MSC issue with no options stopping in DOH, or may be status related. What’s your QF status?

 

[adenda]

Thanks Captain- we’re wanting to go through to Europe anyway so I’ll try that - I’ve just been searching the single segment to DOH.
(I’m a lowly bronze)

 

[Seat0B]

It’s always a good idea to search right through to your destination. Most airlines would understandably prefer to sell a ticket say MEL-LHR via DOH than just the MEL to DOH leg. This is a very real reason why it’s hard to get a ticket from Middle East to Australia right now as they would rather have people in seats all the way from Europe than jus5 the last leg.

Plus in pre-COVID days, it was often cheaper (or same price) to get a ticket say SYD- somewhere in Europe with long stop overs in Dubai in both directions than just fly direct to Dubai. More FF points, more SC and a free side trip to Europe was a great way to go.

 

[Matt_01]

or may be status related

Out of curiosity does this play into the availability for other OW airlines I would have thought that if the likes of JL, QR, CX which release rewards availability at about the D-360 mark all QFFs would be able to see these. I thought it was the QF rewards that are restricted and released at different dates for the WP/SG, PS and NB.

Edit: I have now answered my own question. I logged into MissM's who is a NB and the OW partner rewards availability that I can see in her account is the same as what I can see in my account (P1). The QF rewards were a different story.

 

[adenda]

I’m searched through to Europe, so I suspect it’s either an MSC issue with no options stopping in DOH, or may be status related. What’s your QF status?

Captain - can you share some specific dates and routes? I tried several days between MEL and CDG in March and still getting nothing for 2 pax in J on QR

 

[aikman]

I can see some CX/BA options and QF/QR combos but could not see any QR only seats for 2 pax to DOH/Europe.

 

[Captain Halliday]

Captain - can you share some specific dates and routes? I tried several days between MEL and CDG in March and still getting nothing for 2 pax in J on QR

As I said in my earlier response AU - EU in March has plenty of availability.

However, you're starting to narrow it right down for an award seat and the more you do this the harder it gets.

If MEL is the only departure point you'll consider and CDG your only arrival port, then I agree, there's no QR availability.

As @aikman has said there is availability MEL-CDG up to 25 Mar on other Oneworld carriers.

I'm also seeing options it AMS, BRU, MAD and LHR - all up to 25 Mar.

I'm guessing the awards have been blocked after that date due to school holidays.