Do passengers have a right to know why their flight has been cancelled?

[petercr]

Last year when our family was delayed overnight in LA due to a snowstorm in NY we found out pretty quickly the night before that we were delayed due to 'weather in NYC' (but only after I went to do OLCI and found we were on a flight 24hrs later ) and luckily were able to extend our stay but it took Qantas nearly 6 weeks to confirm in writing that the flight was delayed (thanks to RedRoo for geeing people up at that end) but that confirmation never mentioned exactly why. When filing the insurance claim I included a print out from a US news website and the claim was accepted without question.

 

[seanpodge]

Passengers definitely have a right to know why their flight, which they handed over good money for, was cancelled. While the ACCC is looking into the "booking fees" and other associated rorts of the airlines, maybe they could also look into toughing up the obligations on airlines when they cancel flights, especially if the reason is low PAX count.

 

[possie]

Perhaps in the case of the original poster's situation, moving the passengers allowed them to have less flight attendants on the original plane that still flew to Canberra as he discovered but minus passengers.

 

[pgsdiver]

Big difference between the US and here, I think.
I had a disruption in HNL a year or so ago on Hawaiian and it resulted in the plane being unserviceable (In essence, they "bent" the door of the aircraft with the airbridge).
The staff at the gate kept us informed (including detailed descriptions of the problem) every 15 minutes or so, and included updates on the progress of the replacement aircraft to carry us to SYD.
I was amazed, especially after the usual "We'll let you know when there's something to tell you" approach in Australia.
Regards,
Peter

 

[Valerie Moffat]

Do passengers have the right to know why their flight has been cancelled?..Of course they do and should be kept up to date with announcements because they have that right!
This must have been a "one off" because when I was flying Qantas Sydney to Melbourne recently on a Friday afternoon we and not only we, but passengers of the next flight were kept aware of the circumstances.
I hope the passenger reported this and Qantas acted swiftly.
Valerie M

 

[Goldilocks]

Jetstar cancelled their JQ720 departing Hobart @ 08:40 to Sydney (in August) and I was transferred to JQ724 departing @ 13:10. Really annoyed and expressed this, with the result I was offered a $25 voucher to use "for flights, DRINKS, LUGGAGE etc". However, upon receiving the voucher the terms printed seem to be for flights only - which doesn't surprise me. Jetstar is so incompetent I try to avoid them wherever possible. In Tasmania we don't have as many flight options as mainlanders. So, when going overseas I always book the domestic leg of my journey (not many direct overseas options from Hobart) for the day before an overseas flight due to the uncertainty. Now I won't have much time in Sydney to do the things I wanted to. VERY ANNOYED.

 

[RAM]

I don't see why they can't advise you of the reason for a cancellation but I am sure if there is then some of the air line personnel who post here will chime in.

As for cancelling a flight because of lack of sales I wonder if that really happens at the last minute given that a plane still has to get to a destination and be ready for its next flight.

Yes it does happen and you are on the right track. They normally cancel a pair of flights on a route such as Tiger on SYD-OOL so the plane that was due to turn around at SYD stays at OOL and picks up its next sector from their.

Someone can (& will) correct me but I suspect after possibly SYD/MEL that SYD/OOL has the most cancellations especially post VA taking over Tiger. I've had 3 out 3 of bookings in the last 8 months cancelled like that. Curiously (new yield mgmt tool?) they all occurred roughly 5 weeks out from travel.


Stayed at the same UKhotel as flight crew for a LCC and got to talking. Asked about short notice cancellations and they opened right up. Most frequent reason for their employer in winter was if the combined out & back sectors were not above a certain profit level then the flight pair was cancelled 'due to maintenance issues' at which the three of them laughed and one added, 'maintenance of profit issues that is'.
What caused many of these at the last minute was if it started snowing and they would then have to pay for de-icing...

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Jetstar cancelled their JQ720 departing Hobart @ 08:40 to Sydney (in August) and I was transferred to JQ724 departing @ 13:10. Really annoyed and expressed this, with the result I was offered a $25 voucher to use "for flights, DRINKS, LUGGAGE etc". However, upon receiving the voucher the terms printed seem to be for flights only - which doesn't surprise me.

Jetstar is so incompetent I try to avoid them wherever possible. In Tasmania we don't have as many flight options as mainlanders. So, when going overseas I always book the domestic leg of my journey (not many direct overseas options from Hobart) for the day before an overseas flight due to the uncertainty. Now I won't have much time in Sydney to do the things I wanted to. VERY ANNOYED.

Were there any VA or QF flights going late morning?

I know when JQ cancel evening BNE/SYD, BNE/MEL or BNE/TSV flights they will move pax across to QF or VA flights but that may only be if the next JQ flight was the following day.

I don't think there's any hard & fast rule of when they will or won't do this & probably depends on the port.

They need a bit of lead time to arrange it as JQ staff at the port concerned have to call JQ Ops who then call QF Ops to book the seats then a block of seats is held while JQ fax off names to QF who then have to enter them into the group booking before pax can check in.

The above scenario was relayed to me thru friends who had their BNE/TSV JQ flight cancelled. Fortunately then had done OLCI so were among the those on the first QF flight as JQ use pax sequence numbers to prioritise moving pax to other flights.

 

[Valerie Moffat]

Thanks everyone. It's good to know that mostly things go well.

 

[Captain Halliday]

+1 on pax being told the reason for a cancellation. It's a courtesy and doesn't cost the airline anything. In my view it earns them credibility. As for cancellations due to low loads, it's most common on return sectors as other posters have pointed out, or to/from major centres where not repositioning aircraft is unlikely to disrupt schedule.

 

[drross]

Jetstar cancelled their JQ720 departing Hobart @ 08:40 to Sydney (in August) and I was transferred to JQ724 departing @ 13:10. Really annoyed and expressed this, with the result I was offered a $25 voucher to use "for flights, DRINKS, LUGGAGE etc". However, upon receiving the voucher the terms printed seem to be for flights only - which doesn't surprise me. Jetstar is so incompetent I try to avoid them wherever possible. In Tasmania we don't have as many flight options as mainlanders. So, when going overseas I always book the domestic leg of my journey (not many direct overseas options from Hobart) for the day before an overseas flight due to the uncertainty. Now I won't have much time in Sydney to do the things I wanted to. VERY ANNOYED.

Welcome to AFF Goldilocks. Have experienced the delights of Jetstar and Hobart; understand your caution when travelling

 

[Melburnian1]

Qantas' attitude in not informing the OP of the reason a flight was cancelled is in stark contrast to surface transport operators such as NSWTrainLink, Queensland Rail and V/Line who when a train is cancelled will normally give passengers an immediate explanation. In contrast, few airline passengers seem to ask and pursue the answer if need be - are they scared of being removed from the (replacement) flight's manifest, or of airline staff calling the Federal police or security because a passenger wants to know what really occurred?

Airline staff may not always have total information to hand, but it's really annoying to be told 'due to late incoming aircraft' when the real reason is 'poor ticket sales in both directions' or 'fog at airport X.'

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Qantas' attitude in not informing the OP of the reason a flight was cancelled is in stark contrast to surface transport operators such as NSWTrainLink, Queensland Rail and V/Line who when a train is cancelled will normally give passengers an immediate explanation. In contrast, few airline passengers seem to ask and pursue the answer if need be - are they scared of being removed from the (replacement) flight's manifest, or of airline staff calling the Federal police or security because a passenger wants to know what really occurred?

Airline staff may not always have total information to hand, but it's really annoying to be told 'due to late incoming aircraft' when the real reason is 'poor ticket sales in both directions' or 'fog at airport X.'

I think the excuse 'due to late incoming aircraft' is a poor one. I half think airlines expect you to accept that as being 100% outside of the airline's control, when in fact there are a whole bunch of reasons why it might be within the airline's control.

I have no problem with delays outside of their control - weather happens, ATC can sometimes be an issue. But when an airline uses 'late incoming' as an excuse for maintenance issues, or late crew, I perhaps appreciate if there to be some effort to make up for the delay. Honesty is a good start for that. And there could be other options. I would not expect an airline to change my lowest discount economy fare for another flight if it was a matter outside their control. If it is a matter inside their control I might expect change fees to be waived and (depending on the length of the delay), passengers to be shuffled around on other flights to accommodate those who are delayed (for example, upgrading top tier members into a higher class to free up economy seats).

 

[Himeno]

Airline staff may not always have total information to hand, but it's really annoying to be told 'due to late incoming aircraft' when the real reason is 'poor ticket sales in both directions' or 'fog at airport X.'

There are also cases where a pax could look up details online and have more info about the delay then the gate agent claims to...

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Qantas' attitude in not informing the OP of the reason a flight was cancelled is in stark contrast to surface transport operators such as NSWTrainLink, Queensland Rail and V/Line who when a train is cancelled will normally give passengers an immediate explanation. In contrast, few airline passengers seem to ask and pursue the answer if need be - are they scared of being removed from the (replacement) flight's manifest, or of airline staff calling the Federal police or security because a passenger wants to know what really occurred?

Airline staff may not always have total information to hand, but it's really annoying to be told 'due to late incoming aircraft' when the real reason is 'poor ticket sales in both directions' or 'fog at airport X.'

Nobody's going to get arrested for politely enquiring as to the reason for a flight cancellation.

If someone behaves in a threatening or violent manner well that's a totally different manner & generally the other pax are only too happy to see AFP escort them away.

It's disappointing to hear that TV shows like 'Airways' reward people for their stupidity when missing flights etc by offering to pay for their new airfare provided they cause a scene that can be captured by the cameras for an episode. I heard this from a lady who missed a TT flight "it was my own fault, I got the times mixed up" who was approached by people from the show & she flatout refused their 'offer' & instead bought a new ticket on another airline.

I think the excuse 'due to late incoming aircraft' is a poor one. I half think airlines expect you to accept that as being 100% outside of the airline's control, when in fact there are a whole bunch of reasons why it might be within the airline's control.

I have no problem with delays outside of their control - weather happens, ATC can sometimes be an issue. But when an airline uses 'late incoming' as an excuse for maintenance issues, or late crew, I perhaps appreciate if there to be some effort to make up for the delay. Honesty is a good start for that. And there could be other options.

I have only heard of 'late incoming aircraft' as an excuse for a delay (when the a/c actually was late inbound), never for a flight cancellation. Same goes for 'late incoming crew', quite often the a/c will be there but the operated crew may be delayed on an inbound flight from elsewhere. Never heard of a cancellation due to poor loads as it would cause too much of a domino effect for the several other flights the a/c is scheduled to operate that day.

I would not expect an airline to change my lowest discount economy fare for another flight if it was a matter outside their control. If it is a matter inside their control I might expect change fees to be waived and (depending on the length of the delay), passengers to be shuffled around on other flights to accommodate those who are delayed (for example, upgrading top tier members into a higher class to free up economy seats).

Generally if there is a disruption whether due to a mechanical issue or outside the airline's control eg weather eg high winds in SYD so only one runway in operation they would still flow forward any pax regardless of airfare paid.

There are also cases where a pax could look up details online and have more info about the delay then the gate agent claims to...

It wouldn't be the first time pax find out a flight has been cancelled before airport staff. One minute you may get warning it *could* happen, nek minnut several mobiles go off around you with sms beeps & then you know for sure.

 

[Mattg]

Qantas' attitude in not informing the OP of the reason a flight was cancelled is in stark contrast to surface transport operators such as NSWTrainLink, Queensland Rail and V/Line who when a train is cancelled will normally give passengers an immediate explanation.

Interesting that you should say that - I travelled on NSW Train Link from Sydney to Canberra a few weeks ago when the train terminated at Goulburn and we were out onto buses for the rest of the trip. We were never advised of the reason for this...

 

[harvyk]

I see delays because of late arriving aircraft to be the reason in it's own right. You don't need to know the reason why it's arriving late, what matters to you is that it is late.
As for do you need to know the reason why a flight is running late / cancelled?

Yes, I think as much as anything else as a courtesy. Do you need to know the details? No not really, unless the details would have an affect on what you'd be doing (eg if you know the details as to why a flight is cancelled you'd be able to go to a hotel overnight or cancel your trip full stop)

As for cancelling flights due to poor loads, well whilst no doubt it does happen, there would be very limited circumstances where it would actually save the airline money.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I see delays because of late arriving aircraft to be the reason in it's own right. You don't need to know the reason why it's arriving late, what matters to you is that it is late.
As for do you need to know the reason why a flight is running late / cancelled?

Yes, I think as much as anything else as a courtesy. Do you need to know the details? No not really, unless the details would have an affect on what you'd be doing (eg if you know the details as to why a flight is cancelled you'd be able to go to a hotel overnight or cancel your trip full stop)

As for cancelling flights due to poor loads, well whilst no doubt it does happen, there would be very limited circumstances where it would actually save the airline money.

Your first and second paras seem to counter each other. 'Late arriving aircraft' is not sufficient if you then need to know the reason so you can claim a hotel from the airline.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Generally if there is a disruption whether due to a mechanical issue or outside the airline's control eg weather eg high winds in SYD so only one runway in operation they would still flow forward any pax regardless of airfare paid.

I was thinking more about some overseas flights such as HKG-China where rolling delays of 1-2 hours are common due to ATC. In those circumstances CX/KA may move you, but not always. And they won't necessarily roll-forward cabins to accommodate pax delayed.

I had a flight last year where we had a delay of 2.5 hours - we were told ATC. I asked for another flight but it was denied on the basis that economy class was full.

On boarding the aircraft, the captain came on and apologised for the delay which was due to our original aircraft being needed for the flight to SFO, and we had to wait for another one to arrive from Europe.

That piece of information was crucial. I wouldn't have accepted the denial by CX to reaccommodate me out of HKG on the basis there were no economy class seats because there were intermediate flights with open business class seats, and they could have rolled forward other passengers to accommodate me.

Knowing if it is in or out of the airline's control can give much more scope for asserting rights to be accommodated by other means.

 

[harvyk]

Your first and second paras seem to counter each other. 'Late arriving aircraft' is not sufficient if you then need to know the reason so you can claim a hotel from the airline.

No, late arriving aircraft is the reason... That is the reason you are delayed (or in the case of curfews, had the flight cancelled) because the aircraft has arrived late. You know that once the aircraft arrives you will most likely then depart. An estimate could even be given.

Say in the instance of crew delayed on a previous flight, you know that once the crew arrive, you will most likely depart. An estimate could even be given.

Say in the instance of a mechanical fault, you know that once they have repaired the fault or have found a replacement aircraft, you will most likely then depart. It's likely no estimate could be given, therefore you may need to start thinking about alternate arrangements.