Does anyone still think VA is superior?

[oz_mark]

Ok. Food is usually not as good. Otherwise about the same on balance.

Already said that.

I think they really need to rethink their single bite size snacks. Either do away with them. or make them a sensible size. Half a muesli bar or a mini muffin is just dumb.

 

[Jack_OC]

You said there were no objective reasons why VA is inferior, so let's revise my comment as follows: "The (free) food and drink served by VA in Y is unquestionably inferior to that served by QF".

I accept this as an objective reason and a wholly accurate objective reason. I'd still want to ask - is the level of QF snobbery really warranted on this basis? I find the general similarity between the products offered on the whole to be out of step with the level of anti-VA sentiment getting around.

Ok. Food is usually not as good. Otherwise about the same on balance.

Already said that.

Food is vastly inferior in Y on VA, at least at peak times ("snack" vs meal), and there is also a completely different drinks policy, which again is vastly inferior on VA. You might not think either of these things is a big deal, but then what else is there to a domestic Y product?

- Personal greeting/recognition/special treatment for status pax? QF wins hands down.
- Entertainment? Hardly a big deal on a short flight, but again QF wins.
- Seat quality/comfort? No difference
- Lounges? QF wins - they have lounges almost everywhere (VA is very patchy outside of capital city airports), and QF also has better lounges if you can get into the Business lounge
- Check in experience - QF wins if you have to actually visit a check in desk, especially if you have luggage, even more so in regional airports
- Staff friendliness - not sure either should win any plaudits here any more, but if anything I'd say QF wins here too
- Priority boarding - VA wins. So there's that in VA's favour.
- Punishment for selecting the lowest fare (which is something many of us have no choice about when travelling for work) - QF wins easily since VA's recent changes came in.
- Cost - in my recent experience QF is winning here too. I keep seeing people saying VA is still cheaper, so I don't know if I'm just jinxed, but over the past few months there has only been one occasion when a rtn trip with VA was more than $10 cheaper than the QF equivalent, while on most occasions QF has been cheaper.

As I said earlier, I used to be a huge VA advocate, so my current view of VA has nothing to do with snobbery. The simple fact is, they have gone way downhill on a whole raft of measures recently. To sum it up, they seem to have increased their fares without increasing their service level to match.

 

[MH_fan]

Being WP in both camps makes it a lot easier for me because it gives me choice depending on where I'm flying to and in what class.
I would definitely not say that VA are superior to QF. When it comes to international long haul, VA beats QF easily in terms of flight experience and hard product. Although VA is let down by the lack of an alliance but their current arrangements with their partners have worked well for me so far (especially DL). QF's hard product on the A380s and the B747s are so far behind the industry standard now and that's what lets them down, as they really should be at the level of their A330s. Domestic J is pretty even for both in my experience but QF Y is definitely better than VA Y. VA's so-called food offerings in domestic Y are absolutely abysmal. I won't give up on VA though because there are many aspects of their programme that I think are very good. Lower SCs needed to attain and retain status with family pooling is an absolute winner! Their premium entry/exit is fantastic. Access to row 3 is a great bonus if you're a WP but certainly not the most important thing on offer. VA also do priority boarding so much better than QF (seriously, how are can it be?!).
My main gripe with VA is that their prices have increased disguised in the "free luggage" and "free food/drinks" being included in the fare. As a result, I've made more booking on QF domestic as they can often be cheaper than VA.

 

[Strategic Aviation]

Another price consideration is credit card surcharges on domestic and international flights.

Using QF gift vouchers avoids those surcharges fairly effortlessly and conveniently (plus there is the annual bonus points offer and recurrent Amex statement credit offers). The same cannot be said for VA gift vouchers based on my recollection of them.

 

[QF WP]

I'm really enjoying the variety of opinions (for both Y and J, as well as aircraft types) and particularly the responses which are exemplary to date. We all have our opinions and differences - and in debating it we will all come to our own opinion as to the subject heading. YMMV, but for me VA still has the crown...even though they have no lifetime status...

 

[rtyuiop]

I will say the ability to transfer points to SQ is pretty great...

 

[straitman]

I disagree. The QF A330 J transcon service is structurally inferior to that provided by VA on their A330 J services.

I have travelled on both extensively over the past year (see the trip reports) and the gap is staggering.

http://www.australianfrequentflyer....s-and-trip-photos/va-qf-dom-a330-j-77007.html

The food is the biggest difference. It has been almost inedible at times on QF, menus change rarely (I have had the same one more than five times in a row) and the best QF can do for dessert is a Maggie Beer 'paddlepop' on MEL-PER.

The A330 J transcon service is definitely superior on VA without question...

Ok, now Lets discuss the Economy cabin as well, where the majority of Passengers sit. Not everyone can obviously afford to pay Business class fares or snare Award seats.

How does VA compare against QF on the A330 services in the economy cabin?

Please feel free to discuss...

Not sure how my comments got pushed into being specifically transcon J as they were meant as across the board comments.

Just to add, I actually book which ever is the best for time, price and circumstances on the days that I'm going places. I have lounge access for both and enjoy the different offerings as appropriate. In reality the onboard meal/snacks in Y aren't particularly wonderful on either. Travelling to/from Fiji which we do a lot the VA vs QF (FJ) offerings are essentially the same. Sometimes one is better and sometimes the other.

 

[Buzzard]

If I fly on my own I go with QF as I am SG.
If I fly with +1 we decide based on cost and schedule as +1 has the VA lounge access.

QF are a notch or two above VA IMHO.

 

[Marty_]

- Personal greeting/recognition/special treatment for status pax? QF wins hands down.
- Check in experience - QF wins if you have to actually visit a check in desk, especially if you have luggage, even more so in regional airports
- Staff friendliness - not sure either should win any plaudits here any more, but if anything I'd say QF wins here too
- Cost - in my recent experience QF is winning here too.

Your post is good. I take issue with these points though. I don't count, but my impression is that I get a personal greeting and status acknowledgement nearly every time I fly. I also get very well treated on occasion at checkin and when problems arise. I really could not dispute this one more strongly.

Not sure why checkin wins for QF. Other than bag drop at more airports I don't get it. VA checkin is great and I never have to queue much.

Staff seems to be hit and miss, but my experience has been VA has the edge. They used to seem happier, but not sure if that is just me.

I find cost for VA when booking in advance is significantly cheaper. When booking closer to the date QF can often be cheaper.

I will say the ability to transfer points to SQ is pretty great...

Until SQ pull the plug on the deal with 48hrs notice under the auspices of "cracking down" on partner airline benefits outside their core alliances or some such!

But yes - recently booked J return to London with an SQ points transfer

 

[HeavyElectricity]

After recently completing a round-the-world trip in J, I was surprised to find VA J domestic (transcon) easily beat all of the others hands-down with the product and service combo (Air New Zealand, Lufthansa, Swiss, South African Airways, Singapore Airlines).

The VA J seat beat everything else easily, and the service is often close to that of my recent SQ F trip.

I flew VA J to Sydney on Christmas day, and was reminded again how good we have it here. As I was taking my last sip of my G&T, a crew member asked 'would you like another Sir', and as the word 'yes please' was coming out of my mouth, an proactively already-made G&T was being placed on my tray table .

Also, my personal nit-pick, out of all the above, VA J A330 was the only J product I've tried which had personal air vents.

I can't compare to Qantas, but compared to NZ, LH, LX, SA, and SQ, it is clearly superior IMHO.

I'll eventually finish sorting my photos and finish my trip-report with this conclusion too!

 

[Matt_01]

I never thought VA was superior to QF but after flying with QF for more years than I care to remember and never really climbing the status ladder, a change in situation (which included a dramatic uplift in flying) I switched to VA approximately 3-3.5 years ago as it was easier and quicker to get SG and WP due needing less SC and through pooling. The points earn rate was also good $1=10 points at WP level these built up quickly. The lower SC required to earn and retain SG and WP combined with pooling is a double edge sword as there are more fliers competing for row 3 and lounges become more crowded. I am a perfect example, for the past couple of years I only flew the 8 sectors required, pooling did the rest. I became disillusioned with VA via the lack of availability to redeem points for international travel and VA limited reach. It seemed that most international flights were with partners which was ok for redemption but there was no ability to points just to upgrade. My ability to redeem and upgrade domestically was quite good but I had no interest in domestic redemptions or upgrades (this is also the case with QF). My VA experience was short lived lasting about 18 months. In hindsight the 2000 odd SC I personally obtained with VA, would have been better served as additional contribution to LTG.

QF have the reach to locations I want to travel, I can upgrade on Qantas metal. As part of OW and their alliance with EK I seem to be able to always find a suitable flight. Then what I consider to be the best offering for a QF WP is the ability to request J rewards and get them. Yes, some of the QF product is getting tired compared to other carriers, however, my travels business and personal are self-funded so when personal travel is involved I will gladly take x2 J redemptions and pay for one flight rather than pay for x3 J. QF just seems to be able to look after high status customers than VA.

As a P1 my partner was also given WP status so there is no more VA family pooling and I will not retain WP post May. I would have been happy to do limited flights to retain SG (IMO the VA sweet spot) however with the recent changes to their program, and the continual lounge access rule changes I cannot see myself travelling with them anytime soon. I have already cashed out the last of my VA points with SG so there is no reason to stay. The slippy slope to NR has commenced.

As for free upgrades, I have only ever been given these for operational reasons WP across both carriers, may be a little less with QF as the CLWP, P1 CLP1 were above me. I have had a little more luck with free upgrade at P1 but even these are becoming more difficult to get. Requested upgrades on points 100% success.

There are pros and cons of each carrier and their FF programs, and there will always be haters and supporters each. QF seem to have lifted their game recently, while VA have gone back to their LCC beginnings but want to charge like a tier 1. At present to me VA are an above average LCC domestic carrier with some limited quality products (333 and 777).

 

[Jack_OC]

Your post is good. I take issue with these points though. I don't count, but my impression is that I get a personal greeting and status acknowledgement nearly every time I fly. I also get very well treated on occasion at checkin and when problems arise. I really could not dispute this one more strongly.

No problem that you have had a different experience than me, but all I can say is I do not recall ever having any kind of status acknowledgement from VA as a Platinum, and definitely no special treatment on board. Numerous other people on this forum have reported similar experiences to me. So maybe it's just inconsistency rather than complete absence of this practice on VA (and maybe the coast to coast staff are better in general), but either way QF wins IMHO.

Not sure why checkin wins for QF. Other than bag drop at more airports I don't get it. VA checkin is great and I never have to queue much.

VA checkin queues are almost almost always lengthy in MEL, even at the premium desk. For people who don't have access to the premium desk, they can be eye wateringly long. QF's automated bag drop machines in most major airports more or less completely eliminate this problem.

Staff seems to be hit and miss, but my experience has been VA has the edge. They used to seem happier, but not sure if that is just me.

Yeah, no arguments there. As I said, I think QF has the edge, but obviously that is subjective and there's not much in it either way.

I find cost for VA when booking in advance is significantly cheaper. When booking closer to the date QF can often be cheaper.

Again I've had a very different experience recently. I have found that VA is at best on par with QF (or maybe a few bucks cheaper than QF), no matter what the interval between booking and travelling. I have recently booked MEL-ADL rtn flights for both August and December. QF came out $19 cheaper per person for the first trip and $29 per person cheaper for the second. I've also booked trips at very short notice recently and found that the difference in QF's favour was even bigger. This is the biggest problem I have with VA at the moment. Even if you take the view that there is not much difference between QF and VA, there is no way VA could be considered better than QF for East Coast Y travel, so how can they justify routinely charging more than QF? If they want to be competitive, they have to either charge consistently less than QF on these flights, or else significantly improve their product. I recognise that this point may not be applicable to coast to coast flights, or J flights, but when it comes to Y on East Coast routes, their current pricing is utterly baffling.

BTW, you mention that you're Platinum with VA, but do you have any status with QF? If not, then I'm not sure if you're comparing like with like. I would expect a VA Platinum/QF Bronze should have a much better experience on VA than on QF, if everything else was equal - but you said they are very similar. If a QF Platinum/VE Red took a few flights on VA, I would be very surprised if they felt both experiences were similar!

 

[straitman]

Just my OT comment.

It's a pleasure to read a thread where there are such diverse opinions and where everyone is simply stating their opinion and experiences.

There are no expectations of everyone agreeing but also to have no daggers flying and no angst coming through is pleasantly refreshing.

 

[Marty_]

There are no expectations of everyone agreeing but also to have no daggers flying and no angst coming through is pleasantly refreshing.

I reckon. First time it's happened since I joined! It's good!

Despite my advocacy for VA I am considering a QF switcheroo this year due to my work travel becoming increasingly international. I have 3x J international trips planned already and a OneWorld membership is pretty attractive. Though 1x of the trips is to LAX for which I shall fly VA

Thanks for the level headed convo Jack and others. Helps put it in perspective.

 

[777]

This is a good thread. Congrats to all for bringing their thinking caps and not just their attitude and their prejudices.

I've been thinking about this a lot recently. I'm frustrated with VA for some of the reasons well covered above (i mostly don't care about the size of an in flight meal or snack on a 1hr flight or some of the other specifics) but more for the general sense that they're not really going anywhere and it's all becoming a bit of a mess.

I want VA to join an alliance but I find the bespoke international partnerships OK. Then again I spend the time to make sure I know how to work it well and when you do it does offer up some great possibilities. BUT... I also maintain Star Alliance Gold via TK (initially via status match but i've managed to retain for the next 2 years) so i cover myself for the holes.

I've been flying QF a bit recently (i used to work hard to make sure i flew VA now I worry less) and I think they're domestic product is better on average. Not sure it's always better value. Obviously as WP with VA and currently nothing with QF it's not particularly better for *me*.

Which gets me to the point...

I don't think VA is "superior" but i'm not sure I ever did.

I still think VA is a better fit *for me*. I think it still is but less so than it might have been a few years back.

Reasons:

1. I have status! (golden handcuffs)
2. VA is actually generous with providing status (perhaps too generous but that's another Q for another day) so my wife is also WP and through family pooling and companion benefits I've been able to have several members of my family have decent status with VA.
3. A lot of my travel is MEL-NTL and QF don't exist there. It's all JQ.
4. I find the earn>burn ratio of points on VA pretty damn good given the status and given i know the system.
5. I find VA point availability pretty good if you know where to look -- i've got my wife, 2 kids, and mother in law all flying J via SQ to Europe on the first day of the school holidays and it wasn't that hard. Great partner. Great product. Great availability. Can generally save up enough points for a J class international family trip a year and find availability.
5. If i switched to QF i'd be on JQ a lot, i'd probably be Gold and may hit platinum but wife and family members wouldn't have any status and i'd be status-less getting there.

So VA is still the better option *for me*. Doesn't mean it's the *best* but i'm one of those people in the sweet spot where the combination of their network, status structure and rules, and partnerships outweigh the competitor.

YMMV and probably does!

 

[cove]

The VA website is still a bit weak and clunky but for a late redemption to business class for a coast to coast ride they have the goods. Last night I was able to book the SIL to go PER-MEL-PER when her employer announced a day off on January 27th to create a long weekend for her.
Qantas had zero business class redemption seats around those flying dates so having enough Velocity points can be a real winner to avoid paying real money for a long weekend.

 

[Cool Cat Phil]

3. A lot of my travel is MEL-NTL and QF don't exist there. It's all JQ.

So VA is still the better option *for me*. Doesn't mean it's the *best* but i'm one of those people in the sweet spot where the combination of their network, status structure and rules, and partnerships outweigh the competitor.

YMMV and probably does!

I appreciate the length and breadth of your contribution, and can see your points of view.

In relation to the MEL > NTL sector, this too is one of my most travelled domestic sectors nowadays, and I would love to see the Red Roo on this sector.
I still can't get my head around why Qantas doesn't fly this sector between Australia's second largest population base and seventh largest population base.
I've considered travelling on VA, although find their flight schedule ( Just one flight per day in each direction in the middle of the day) unsuitable. I find The VA flight schedule on this sector eats into my day too much.
JQ on the otherhand offer 3, sometimes 4 flights per day between MEL > NTL, a far better schedule spread out throughout the day. Hopefully VA can improve their schedule better and would potentially put pressure on QF to consider flying the sector.

 

[Jack_OC]

I appreciate the length and breadth of your contribution, and can see your points of view.

In relation to the MEL > NTL sector, this too is one of my most travelled domestic sectors nowadays, and I would love to see the Red Roo on this sector.
I still can't get my head around why Qantas doesn't fly this sector between Australia's second largest population base and seventh largest population base.
I've considered travelling on VA, although find their flight schedule ( Just one flight per day in each direction in the middle of the day) unsuitable. I find The VA flight schedule on this sector eats into my day too much.
JQ on the otherhand offer 3, sometimes 4 flights per day between MEL > NTL, a far better schedule spread out throughout the day. Hopefully VA can improve their schedule better and would potentially put pressure on QF to consider flying the sector.

Funnily enough, I've only travelled to NTL once, and I had the same issue with VA's schedule - the middle of the day direct flight was no use to me in either direction. Due to my affinity for VA/Velocity at the time, I decided to fly back on VA from NTL-BNE-MEL rather than go JQ direct. This meant I got home about 5 hours later than if I'd gone with JQ (but in fairness to VA, the price difference was very small, despite the extra flight involved). However, on the way up I had no option but to fly JQ. That was actually the first time I'd ever flown JQ, and at the risk of broadening the topic, I was dreading it, but in the end I didn't find it much different than VA. I paid for a front row seat (I think that cost $10), so that was as good as (arguably better than) row 3 with VA, and the in flight service was essentially the same. There was obviously no inflight entertainment but that wasn't a problem for me. I had to check in a bag and that was a bit of a pain in MEL - but see comments above re checking in at MEL with VA! The only real difference was that I didn't get lounge access when travelling with JQ, as I was only Silver with QF at the time, but now that I have QF lounge access as well, I think I would opt for JQ in both directions if I had to do this trip again (because of the scheduling issues - I'm not saying JQ is better than VA, just that VA is not sufficiently better to convince me to go so far out of my way to avoid JQ again!).

BTW, I realise that the standard leg room on JQ is shocking, so I would only voluntarily fly with them if I could get an extra leg room seat, and the availability/cost of that has to be factored in when considering options.

 

[ronicat]

Middle of the day MEL-NTL lines up perfectly with PER-MEL flight making it possible to do the trip as one booking with VA without much waiting around. ðŸ

 

[Bolthead]

Just my OT comment.

It's a pleasure to read a thread where there are such diverse opinions and where everyone is simply stating their opinion and experiences.

There are no expectations of everyone agreeing but also to have no daggers flying and no angst coming through is pleasantly refreshing.

I was just thinking that when I came across your post.

As for me I have always thought QF was superior to VA however having said this I can't remember the last time I flew with QF. I have just assumed that QF has a bigger international network with more options for lounge access.

My loyalty to VA is based on one thing only...

FAMILY POOLING...

Without 'Family Pooling' and with my current flying patterns I guess I would be lucky to be a QF SG at best. Unlike most people, as I have stated on other posts, I guess I have been lucky with upgrades having quite a few in the past 6 years or so. (predominately international)