Does Closing Beaches Make Any Sense?

[Renato1]

In my mind the most important thing is collective discipline

Collective discipline starts breaking down when the government imposes extremely harsh non-sensical restrictions that make zero sense, when they in no way contribute to the spreading of the virus.

Case in point - in Victoria, unless I live adjacent to a beach, I cannot go down there to swim and exercise today - a nice warm day.

But, if I were living in Queensland, not a problem - I could exercise, swim, sit down and rest to my heart's content.

When is it okay to go to the beach in Queensland?

‘It’s about going out and physically moving.’

7news.com.au

Similarly the other day when the Victorian Government banned married couples living apart from visiting each other - a not uncommon occurence. They had to rescind it because it was a restriction that was just too stupid.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Pushka]

Gosh I wish that law makers were perfect and knew exactly how to manage this once in a century pandemic. You'd think they would have learnt from last time, wouldn't you.

 

[Renato1]

Unfortunately, maybe not: Australia’s pristine beaches have a poo problem - CSIROscope

At present, places where sewage impacts are generating community concern include Merimbula, Warrnambool and, perhaps most bizarrely, Vaucluse and Diamond Bay in Sydney’s affluent eastern suburbs.​

​

It’s hard to believe this location has raw and untreated sewage from 3,500 people discharged directly into the Tasman Sea. Sydney Water pledged in 2018 to fix this unsightly pollution by transferring the flow to the nearby Bondi sewage treatment plant.​

Post automatically merged: Apr 3, 2020

Another article he wrote - which I linked - states that seawater can carry the virus, particularly in effluent which may be present in the seawater.

So you have to piece it together - some sewage is getting in to seawater. Seawater can carry the virus in effluent. Therefore - can't go swimming or in contact with sand that has come in contact with the seawater. Therefore - close the beach

"transferring the flow to the nearby Bondi sewage treatment plant."
So that Bondi doesn't have a coronavirus infected faecal matter problem.

Nor does Port Phillip Bay in Melbourne - Merrimbula is on the ocean so far from Melbourne I've never been there, and Warrnambool is on the ocean many hours drive from Melbourne.

On what planet would one call for the closure of beaches on that basis?
May as well say Indonesia has that human sewage problem, so we'd better close our beaches.

But I digress, as I pointed out above, the expert's own words did not state the beaches should be closed, but that beach parties should be broken up - which is one step less than what I wanted, that the people breaching the 4 square meter rule on the beach should be fined.
Regards,
Renato

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Nor does Port Phillip Bay in Melbourne - Merrimbula is on the ocean so far from Melbourne I've never been there, and Warrnambool is on the ocean many hours drive from Melbourne.

There are other articles out there - scientific - that suggest that sewage treatment may not completely eradicate the virus. They aren't certain, but there's a possibility. So on that basis, better to be safe than sorry

 

[Renato1]

Rubbish. Where have I ever written that? Can you please quote when I stated that was my position?

You either lack the ability to understand what is written or said, or you just enjoy trolling. I am yet to determine which one you are.

Social distancing works everywhere. And conversely when it was not being practiced some beaches like Bondi were quite rightly closed.




So Bolt stated that it was ok for groups of people to gather closely together? That laying on towels closely spaced together is ok? I did not see the show but if he said that he is wrong.

Not that I believe Bolt to be the best commentator, but it would not surprise me at all that you are misrepresenting what he actually said.

Please explain - why are you replying on this thread to something I wrote on another thread?

Could you please reply on the other thread where I wrote my comment, else this will make no sense to historians in the future when they look back at this time. Nor will it make much sense to casual readers of this thread.
Regards,
Renato

There are other articles out there - scientific - that suggest that sewage treatment may not completely eradicate the virus. They aren't certain, but there's a possibility. So on that basis, better to be safe than sorry

This is pure speculation on your part. Plenty of articles on how long Coronaviruses survives in tap water (about 9 days) and other water, and I'm pretty sure it will take longer than that for any such matter to somehow makes its way into Port Phillip Bay.
Regards,
Renato

 

[dajop]

At the end of the day, it's important in this difficult times to maintain the rage

Tell you what, I would not want to be in either a State Premier or a PM's shoes right now. They are human beings trying to do a very difficult job. Sometimes they will stuff up, better to err on the side of caution, than be responsible for adding to the deaths by being too relaxed.

 

[straitman]

Renato1,

I would happily continue the discussion if you would actually look the big picture and not get bogged down by your entrenched views at the expense of the facts. You are continually grasping at bits and pieces and ignoring much of what is put to you at the expense of the big picture and the discussion in general.

You obviously have, or choose to have no understanding of teamwork and/risk management in the context of this discussion.

What needs to be done with COVID-19 is a moving target and non of us are perfect so the rules have to keep changing in an effort to get them right. By doing what we are doing we are saving lives.

We are all in this together, so don’t be one of those who goes outside the rules as it will at the very least create tears but more likely cost lives.

p.s. thanks for the non grammar lesson.

 

[andye]

Collective discipline starts breaking down when the government imposes extremely harsh non-sensical restrictions that make zero sense, when they in no way contribute to the spreading of the virus.

Case in point - in Victoria, unless I live adjacent to a beach, I cannot go down there to swim and exercise today - a nice warm day.

But, if I were living in Queensland, not a problem - I could exercise, swim, sit down and rest to my heart's content.

When is it okay to go to the beach in Queensland?

‘It’s about going out and physically moving.’

7news.com.au

Similarly the other day when the Victorian Government banned married couples living apart from visiting each other - a not uncommon occurence. They had to rescind it because it was a restriction that was just too stupid.
Regards,
Renato

Discipline is not doing what is easy or suits you
Discipline is following the rules
By all means ask if the rule-maker will change things if they seem illogical, but obey the rules until any change and be prepared for them to say "tough luck"

 

[nickykim]

And on the don’t go to the beach side....

Scientists are unsure of coronavirus effects at the beach

The virus could be carried to the ocean in runoff and then kicked into the air by the surf, a Scripps scientist says.

www.latimes.com

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Please explain - why are you replying on this thread to something I wrote on another thread?

Because you lied about my position on social distancing with respect to beaches and this is the beaches thread.

 

[drron]

And on the don’t go to the beach side....

Scientists are unsure of coronavirus effects at the beach

The virus could be carried to the ocean in runoff and then kicked into the air by the surf, a Scripps scientist says.

www.latimes.com

Though that is an article on California beaches not Australia.
No raw sewerage outfalls into Port Phillip Bay.
1 minor sewerage outfall for raw sewerage at the cliffs Watson's Bay.You would have to know the currents to see where that would go but the dilution effect would mean no significant exposure at Bondi beach.

The biggest problem IMHO is that you would be exposed to the raw effluent of both Malcolm Turnbull and Paul Keating.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

(about 9 days) and other water, and I'm pretty sure it will take longer than that for any such matter to somehow makes its way into Port Phillip Bay.
Regards,
Renato

Pretty sure eh? Yet another example of you being 100% wrong.
You are wrong about faecal matter entering into the water of swimming beaches and you are wrong about the period of time it takes to do so.

There is actually a mechanism to monitor faecal matter entering Port Phillip Bay as it is a known health risk after heavy rain (ie as in the heavy rain in Melbourne this week).

ie See Beach Report | Yarra and Bay

EPA Victoria monitors recreational water quality at 36 Port Phillip Bay beaches with water samples collected at Beach Report sites every week during summer.

These samples are tested for enterococci, a group of bacteria found inside warm-blooded animals. Enterococci is recognised as the best indicator in measuring faecal contamination of marine recreational waters.



and Melbourne's beaches do get closed for swimming from faecal matter contamination.

ALL Of Melbourne’s Beaches Declared Unsafe For Swimming
Don't go in the water.

Home - Hit Network

www.hit.com.au

Saving Melbourne beaches from faecal pollution : Centre for Anthropogenic Pollution Impact and Management

Saving Melbourne beaches from faecal pollution page in the Centre for Anthropogenic Pollution Impact and Management site.

capim.unimelb.edu.au

EPA declares all Melbourne beaches unsafe for swimming after storm batters state

Victorians have been urged to steer clear of all of Melbourne's 36 beaches after the city received one month's worth of rain overnight.

www.theage.com.au

 

[lovetravellingoz]

No raw sewerage outfalls into Port Phillip Bay.

As an engineer this is a topic I know something of and human faecal matter does flow into Port Phillip Bay. This as per my post just above is a known health issue and is monitored. And it is not just from pet dogs etc.

There are for example illegal connections of sewer into storm water.

Sewer pipes are also faulty (damaged, blocked, cracked, poor joint seals or just overflow) and leak out and enter the drainage system including the various creeks and rivers and then into Port Phillip Bay.

This situation occurs around Australia

 

[AIRwin]

This thread has gone to s***

 

[Pushka]

This thread has gone to s***

Gone to or started that way?

 

[burmans]

As an engineer this is a topic I know something of and human faecal matter does flow into Port Phillip Bay. This as per my post just above is a known health issue and is monitored. And it is not just from pet dogs etc.

There are for example illegal connections of sewer into storm water.

Sewer pipes are also faulty (damaged, blocked, cracked, poor joint seals or just overflow) and leak out and enter the drainage system including the various creeks and rivers and then into Port Phillip Bay.

This situation occurs around Australia

Not sure why you want to have a rational discussion here with someone who clearly likes alternative facts over real ones.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Not sure why you want to have a rational discussion here with someone who clearly likes alternative facts over real ones.

Actually I have decided to ignore him from now on as I do not believe his posts are at all genuine.

So I am now practising Social Media Distancing from one particular poster

 

[straitman]

nonsensical

As an engineer this is a topic I know something of and human faecal matter does flow into Port Phillip Bay. This as per my post just above is a known health issue and is monitored. And it is not just from pet dogs etc.

There are for example illegal connections of sewer into storm water.

Sewer pipes are also faulty (damaged, blocked, cracked, poor joint seals or just overflow) and leak out and enter the drainage system including the various creeks and rivers and then into Port Phillip Bay.

This situation occurs around Australia

Golden Beach in Gippsland around 1990 was the classic. You could both see and smell it but the local authority took a very long time to be convinced to rectify the issue.

 

[Julesmac]

Actually I have decided to ignore him from now on as I do not believe his posts are at all genuine.

So I am now practising Social Media Distancing from one particular poster

There have been other threads which indicate the poster perhaps has an inordinate amount of time to faff about, , hijacking the conversation for his own satisfaction and, I believe even more strongly, revelling in the attention. Doesn't care if it's good attention or bad attention, he certainly has your full attention. A bit like a little kid really. And - we just got sucked in - again. Renato, I'd pop off and do some star gazing as it could possibly be a better use of yoiur time. Or better still, maybe there's an elderly person in your neighbourhood who could use a little help.

 

[Pushka]

Shameless cross post but the first minute is so relevant.