Does Closing Beaches Make Any Sense?

[Guvner]

Dear Renato,
You're right. It was clearly a media beat up by those fake news outlets. People know what's best for themselves.
The leftists and government are out to take away your freedom.
Everything on Fox News is fair and balanced. Andrew Bolt is a sage.
So, keep your tin foil hat on: THEY really are out to get you!

How's the hangover?

 

[Renato1]

Went for a 3km walk this morning along Carrum beach.

The following signs have been placed since I was there last.

View attachment 211162
View attachment 211163

There were very few people about- mainly walking dogs.

Thanks for the pictures. Yesterday was indeed a curious day.

1.People were kicked of beaches by Victoria Police - even those who were just walking on them.
2. Police put their tape across the entrances to the beach, after getting everyone off
3. On Channel 7 News, Premier Andrews said people could still use the beach for walking, that he didn't want people staying there all day (contradicting what Victoria Police were telling people on the beaches).
4. On ABC News last night, the councils said they closed the beach because they were told to by the Government (which seems likely, as councils aren't usually open on weekends, an many had not closed the beaches Saturday)
5. On ABC news, last night Premier Andrews said he never closed the beaches (contradicting what the Councils said)

And today your pictures demonstrate the insane over reaction of government - insane because, correct me if I'm wrong - so far there hasn't been a single case reported on the entire planet of anyone contracting the virus from swimming in sea water. Or by sunbathing for that matter.

Also, the issue of disproportionate and poorly aimed reaction comes into it. Last night Channel 7 news showed parks filled to the brim with people, Bunnings filled to the brim with people - and the areas of those locations were extremely small relative to the huge areas of beaches - which according to Channel 7's own videos, were sparsely populated. The reaction being to expend significant Police resources on beaches - where there was no problem - and to ignore totally the much denser and smaller areas where there were avery significant risks of virus transmission.
Regards,
Renato

 

[mannej]

Renato, it is fairly well known statistically that correlation doesn’t necessarily imply causation.

The article you keep referring to may refer to the correlation but doesn’t prove cause and effect.

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Renato, it is fairly well known statistically that correlation doesn’t necessarily imply causation.

The article you keep referring to may refer to the correlation but doesn’t prove cause and effect.

A very good point.

Using the two high profile UK examples.

We don’t know whether Prince Albert gave it to Prince Charles or vice versa or a third party gave it to both of them at the same time or two third parties at separate incidents.

We don’t know whether PM Boris Johnson gave it to his Health Secretary and Chief Medical Officer or vice versa or from the same third party or different third parties separately.

 

[drron]

So - I've linked to an article with unambiguous results relating to the outcomes of keeping infected people inside verus outside, and you apparently are saying it isn't so.

And its an undisputed fact from observation that seasonal flu and all those other viruses die out when the weather gets warmer and sunnier - and your argument would say that isn't so either.

Also, I note that the UV light that does get through our atmosphere can burn the skin of fair skinned people in 20 to 30 minutes. By your analysis then, any corona or flu virus would be totally unaffected and thrive in such sunlight and say 27C heat, rather than being zapped.

And, from your final comment, you assert that you believe in nutty conspiracy theories.

Enough said,
Regards,
Renato

Sorry Renato1 but you are making an assumption about why the flu gets less in summer is due to the sunshine.
It is not.It has been shown that it is social distancing that causes less flu and common colds in summer not temperature or sunshine.If you spend winter totally isolated on the Downs of the UK you will not get influenza or the common cold.Obviously nothing to do with temperature or sunlight.This was first noticed by the combined British/American research unit on Porton Downs and then at the nearby Common Cold Unit on the other side of Salisbury.
Several studies since have reaffirmed this.here is one that when deliberately inoculated with a common cold virus there is no difference in severity when kept either hot or cold.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm196810032791404

Why is it so?Especially in colder climes people congregate indoors and are closer together.When the weather is warmer they tend to go outdoors and usually further apart.

If your theory was right people in Singapore and Bangkok would not get the flu or common cold but sadly they do.

The message once again is social distancing is more important than season in preventing viral transmission

sorry forgot the link.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

We know that parks have been closed as well as beaches. ie Royal Botanic Gardens close to contain coronavirus spread Beaches and parks have been closed around the world whenever they have drawn crowds. From Italy, to the UK to Bondi

Medical authorities around the world all state to keep separated by at least 1.5m and to not gather in groups. We have all apart from one person in this thread seen footage of people lying and sitting together in groups well under 1.5m apart on various beaches.

Bunnings filled to brim? All the reports today show queues outside Bunnings with people waiting in line spaced to enforce social distancing and where numbers inside the store are controlled.



While we can all have different opinions on things I think that it is now clear that someone in this thread is either just taking the piss, or has a somewhat questionable ability analyse and process information.

 

[esseeeayeenn]

So - I've linked to an article with unambiguous results relating to the outcomes of keeping infected people inside verus outside, and you apparently are saying it isn't so.

And its an undisputed fact from observation that seasonal flu and all those other viruses die out when the weather gets warmer and sunnier - and your argument would say that isn't so either.

Also, I note that the UV light that does get through our atmosphere can burn the skin of fair skinned people in 20 to 30 minutes. By your analysis then, any corona or flu virus would be totally unaffected and thrive in such sunlight and say 27C heat, rather than being zapped.

And, from your final comment, you assert that you believe in nutty conspiracy theories.

Enough said,
Regards,
Renato

UV-A and UV-B penetrate the atmosphere.
UV-C does not.
Hence if you read the literature on sunscreen, they protect against UV-A and UV-B, not UV-C.
It is UV-C which kills bacteria and deactivates virus particles.
That's why the light inside my pond filter is a UV-C light.
And also in the sterilising phone cases on sale on instagram right now.
Some pests (such as mould, mildew and bed bugs) can't tolerate sunlight. But it isn't a reliable disinfectant.
The best current theory on seasonal flu variations is that people are inside more during winter and therefore spread the virus more easily.
It's driven by seasonal human behavioural changes, not the seasons themselves.
As for conspiracy theories, western intelligence agencies have reported that the same Russian botnets and other tactics which were mobilised during the 2016 POTUS election and during the French Presidential election have been active spreading disinformation about the pandemic. Notably undermining public confidence in government responses.
However, it was a joke. I don't seriously imagine anyone would pay you for your posts in this forum.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

And its an undisputed fact from observation that seasonal flu and all those other viruses die out when the weather gets warmer and sunnier

Well what does one say about such a ridiculous claim?



Summer colds and flus evidently never occur?

No one in the tropics every suffers a cold or a flu.

And all the reported cases of Covid 19 in places like Singapore, Indonesia and our own NT and Queensland must just all be part of some giant hoax.



This whole thread is just getting more and more ridiculous. Indeed it seems to be just one giant T _ _ _ _ !

 

[Renato1]

UV-A and UV-B penetrate the atmosphere.
UV-C does not.
Hence if you read the literature on sunscreen, they protect against UV-A and UV-B, not UV-C.
It is UV-C which kills bacteria and deactivates virus particles.
That's why the light inside my pond filter is a UV-C light.
And also in the sterilising phone cases on sale on instagram right now.
Some pests (such as mould, mildew and bed bugs) can't tolerate sunlight. But it isn't a reliable disinfectant.
The best current theory on seasonal flu variations is that people are inside more during winter and therefore spread the virus more easily.
It's driven by seasonal human behavioural changes, not the seasons themselves.
As for conspiracy theories, western intelligence agencies have reported that the same Russian botnets and other tactics which were mobilised during the 2016 POTUS election and during the French Presidential election have been active spreading disinformation about the pandemic. Notably undermining public confidence in government responses.
However, it was a joke. I don't seriously imagine anyone would pay you for your posts in this forum.

Thanks for you best current theories that you don't link to, but only assert without support.

HOWEVER,
" ............can last up to nine days on surfaces depending on the surface type, the heat, the humidity, exposure to sunlight and other factors, said Joseph Fair, a virologist, epidemiologist and NBC News Science contributor. "

"Fair called sunlight “nature’s greatest disinfectant” because the ultraviolet light inactivates bacteria and viruses. "
from

How long does coronavirus live on surfaces?

Which surfaces are the most infectious and how do you disinfect them? Experts weigh in.

www.today.com

but then again, what would a dopey virologist and epidemiologist know?
Regards,
Renato

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

I feel this thread has served its purpose.

We had a 1 week discussion on whether closing beaches make any sense.

Many views were expressed.

 

[Renato1]

Well what does one say about such a ridiculous claim?



Summer colds and flus evidently never occur?

No one in the tropics every suffers a cold or a flu.

And all the reported cases of Covid 19 in places like Singapore, Indonesia and our own NT and Queensland must just all be part of some giant hoax.



This whole thread is just getting more and more ridiculous. Indeed it seems to be just one giant T _ _ _ _ !

I guess you had better quickly get in touch with the USA's CDC and tell them that their graph "flu-peak-activity-updated" below is wrong and factually incorrect.

But then again, our equivalent graph is the reason our Governments are so panicked about the virus. Better tell them too.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Pushka]

Correlation versus causation will get ya every time.

 

[p--and--t]

This thread is a classic case of the issues resulting from watching too much fox news

 

[Renato1]

Sorry Renato1 but you are making an assumption about why the flu gets less in summer is due to the sunshine.
It is not.It has been shown that it is social distancing that causes less flu and common colds in summer not temperature or sunshine.If you spend winter totally isolated on the Downs of the UK you will not get influenza or the common cold.Obviously nothing to do with temperature or sunlight.This was first noticed by the combined British/American research unit on Porton Downs and then at the nearby Common Cold Unit on the other side of Salisbury.
Several studies since have reaffirmed this.here is one that when deliberately inoculated with a common cold virus there is no difference in severity when kept either hot or cold.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejm196810032791404

Why is it so?Especially in colder climes people congregate indoors and are closer together.When the weather is warmer they tend to go outdoors and usually further apart.

If your theory was right people in Singapore and Bangkok would not get the flu or common cold but sadly they do.

The message once again is social distancing is more important than season in preventing viral transmission

sorry forgot the link.

Hi Dr Ron,
Plainly there are various factors involved - and a main one obviously is people being close enough to each other to pass the virus on.

But as this virologist and epidimeologist asserts
"Fair called sunlight “nature’s greatest disinfectant” because the ultraviolet light inactivates bacteria and viruses. "

How long does coronavirus live on surfaces?

Which surfaces are the most infectious and how do you disinfect them? Experts weigh in.

www.today.com

so that another factor is the virus not being able to survive as well in certain environments and making it less likely to be passed on.

Of course, there are are other possibilities regarding the health benefits of sunlight in relation to viruses put forward in the original article. Vitamin D wasn't discovered till 10 years after the Spanish Flu, for starters.

And another curious factor, I was talking to relatives in the Veneto region of Italy (one of the original two epicentres) who were telling me that the big discussion point there is the observation that none of the Africans living there have caught the virus. Genetics or anti-malaria shots?
Regards,
Renato

 

[dajop]

Oh well too lighten things up, at least Tasmania don’t have worry about too many crowds on the beaches:

 

[scaredeycat]

Thanks for all the laughs, Renato.
Time to give it a rest...

 

[Renato1]

We know that parks have been closed as well as beaches. ie Royal Botanic Gardens close to contain coronavirus spread Beaches and parks have been closed around the world whenever they have drawn crowds. From Italy, to the UK to Bondi

Medical authorities around the world all state to keep separated by at least 1.5m and to not gather in groups. We have all apart from one person in this thread seen footage of people lying and sitting together in groups well under 1.5m apart on various beaches.

Bunnings filled to brim? All the reports today show queues outside Bunnings with people waiting in line spaced to enforce social distancing and where numbers inside the store are controlled.

View attachment 211188

While we can all have different opinions on things I think that it is now clear that someone in this thread is either just taking the piss, or has a somewhat questionable ability analyse and process information.

Can't see the wood from the trees.
Here is Channel7 News from last night.

7 News Melbourne Live - Watch & Stream Channel Seven News Melbourne

The latest breaking news and headlines from Melbourne and all of Victoria. Live stream Channel 7 News Melbourne from your computer, tablet or mobile. With unlimited free streaming you can watch as much news as you like, whenever you want. Download the 7plus app or start watching online today.

7plus.com.au

At the 1.28 mark it shows people social distancing to get into Bunnings like in your photo, but a big crowd at the entrance.
Look at the footage before and after it, and further on at at the 4.54 mark of people at the peninsula beaches and you see peope widely spaced apart at the beaches - far more widely spaced than the 1,5 meters.

In terms of people density, one could fit an awful lot on Bunnings stores along a kilometer of beach. Which is a would be a huge density of people on that kilometer, relative to the utterly miniscule number of people at the beaches.

Of the two, the safest place to be was unambiguously not at Bunnings, but at the beach.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

Thanks for all the laughs, Renato.
Time to give it a rest...

Well - I have been giving it a rest.

Hardly any comments from me here on hot days - I live three minutes drive from the beach - and I come home exhausted from all that exercise.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[drron]

Hi Dr Ron,
Plainly there are various factors involved - and a main one obviously is people being close enough to each other to pass the virus on.

But as this virologist and epidimeologist asserts
"Fair called sunlight “nature’s greatest disinfectant” because the ultraviolet light inactivates bacteria and viruses. "

How long does coronavirus live on surfaces?

Which surfaces are the most infectious and how do you disinfect them? Experts weigh in.

www.today.com

so that another factor is the virus not being able to survive as well in certain environments and making it less likely to be passed on.

Of course, there are are other possibilities regarding the health benefits of sunlight in relation to viruses put forward in the original article. Vitamin D wasn't discovered till 10 years after the Spanish Flu, for starters.

And another curious factor, I was talking to relatives in the Veneto region of Italy (one of the original two epicentres) who were telling me that the big discussion point there is the observation that none of the Africans living there have caught the virus. Genetics or anti-malaria shots?
Regards,
Renato

Well the easiest part of your response is the question of the Africans.Covid 19 infects by attaching to human ACE receptor.We use ACE inhibitors to treat high blood pressure.It is well known that Africans don't respond to ACE inhibitors.So it is quite likely a genetic reason for their low rates of infection.

Secondly you quote 1 virologist who is an NBC Science reporter,Also don't mention where he works-the lefties will go beserk. Fair is a senior fellow at The Scowcroft Institute at the George Bush School of International Affairs, Texas A&M University.

My source is a research unit who spent over 40 years researching cold viruses.

Harvard Hospital – Common Cold Unit Salisbury Healthcare History

salisburyhealthcarehistory.uk

Plus there are many more such research projects such as the Pittsburgh cold study.
Sorry mate I have a full house and you have only Ace high.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

And today your pictures demonstrate the insane over reaction of government - insane because, correct me if I'm wrong - so far there hasn't been a single case reported on the entire planet of anyone contracting the virus from swimming in sea water. Or by sunbathing for that matter.

No, but there have been cases of person-to-person transmission. Which is why we (a) need to stay at home and (b) if we have to go out, we invoke social distancing.

If we allow people to spend the day at the beach, that sends a confusing message and contradicts 'stay at home unless absolutely necessary'.