Downgraded from Business Class on Qantas due to "tech crew" [pilot] Travel Requirements

[RichardMEL]

Now, at the least, we know what QF is capable of, and whose decision it was to do this destardy deed.

No, we don't know. There's absolutely no proof it was a decision made by this "exec" (whoever that was - even if it was the ADL duty manager). It could have been made in SYD at the NOC for all we know

 

[RooFlyer]

You will never be convinced. In fact you said as much several pages ago.

Notwithstanding I specifically accepted madrooster's scenario (which you also accepted) in post#81 (with reservation) ? .

That said, I dare say your conviction has been pretty well posted too.

There are plenty of very young pilots both male and female flying QFLink.
They are an asset to the airline.

Age - OK. Their observed behaviour you don't mention. Let me remind you of Pushka's 'live posting' (post #3) at the time:

We actually moved away from these two in the club as they were so loud. We commented on their rudeness at the time. That’s why we knew them when they sat in our seats.

Tech crew is the common parlance on QF for staff who go in the coughpit flying the plane.
There are more people than just me that have said that.

You no doubt know Qantas parlance better than me. And more people than me have said that they thought they were engineering types on this occasion - like the OP, who was there.

 

[Pushka]

You will never be convinced. In fact you said as much several pages ago.

There are plenty of very young pilots both male and female flying QFLink.
They are an asset to the airline.


Tech crew is the common parlance on QF for staff who go in the coughpit flying the plane.
There are more people than just me that have said that.

Yes and I understand. But the talk from the crew in this instance switched from pilot to tech.

 

[RichardMEL]

They don’t need to talk their way into anything at all.
Pilots travel J if the flight is work related.

I agree. This is why I asked about uniforms. Now I don't know about QF's rules Perhaps @jb747 could give some info.. biut I had always thought crew deadheading for work purposes - and thus entitled to J travel - must be in uniform. Now sure this might be an unusual situation as speculated up thread - last minute, standby to operate something out of MEL... we just don't really know... Now sure, crew (tech and cabin) can commute to start their work day, and mostly then in uniform, but they don't always have to be of course. It's my understanding that employees commuting fly J standby else Y - ie it's not part of the conditions. This may well be the case for QF of course, or even have changed in the last agreement - and as such I'm happy to be corrected.

I still find the lounge use odd as crew of any sort don't tend to be in lounges (drinking or not). Of course, we just don't really know the exact situation here.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I agree. This is why I asked about uniforms. Now I don't know about QF's rules Perhaps @jb747 could give some info.. biut I had always thought crew deadheading for work purposes - and thus entitled to J travel - must be in uniform. Now sure this might be an unusual situation as speculated up thread - last minute, standby to operate something out of MEL... we just don't really know... Now sure, crew (tech and cabin) can commute to start their work day, and mostly then in uniform, but they don't always have to be of course. It's my understanding that employees commuting fly J standby else Y - ie it's not part of the conditions. This may well be the case for QF of course, or even have changed in the last agreement - and as such I'm happy to be corrected.

I still find the lounge use odd as crew of any sort don't tend to be in lounges (drinking or not). Of course, we just don't really know the exact situation here.

NM has already replied to this. They do not need to travel in uniform.
Very old thread on here where @milehighclub confirmed it.
I’ve definitely seen crew in the lounges. Not common but I have seen them.
Given that we know they don’t need to travel in uniform could be lots of other instances of crew in the lounges.
I’ve definitely sat on more than one flight where a pilot was next to me in 1C in civvies. With the iPad.

Anyway I’ve said my thoughts and will now bow out.
I hope @Pushka is adequately compensated and the rest of the trip is not soured by this very sub par experience.

 

[Pushka]

I think the thread has run its course and still lots of questions but we will never know. I’ll update when I receive the points refund and any further actions. We are embracing Bali and enjoying it greatly. I will liaise with Qantas in a week when we return and update. The email received today for bids upgrade on return flight - just had to laugh.

I think the learnings of the tale is that Award bookings in any context is at risk now and devalues the QFF programs.

 

[VPS]

I’ve sat next to a QF pilot in J and we had a great chat and he definitely wasn’t in uniform

 

[DC3]

"Never let the truth get in the way of a good story," Mark Twain

On AFF, we can relate to that at times

 

[RichardMEL]

apologies to @NM - I must have missed that. I'm edumacated

 

[ozbeachbabe]

I can't imagine it's a regular thing to do.

But with domestic travel (go directly to the gate if HLO and online check in), until all pax actually present at the gate, it can't be known what the final occupancy will be.

I'd imagine there would be a metric of probability?

But if on board, seated pax had to be downgraded from their class before take off, I'd also imagine it would be better to do that off the plane?

Why certain staff can trump paying pax is another question. But I know that's been the case with Qantas for many decades. It's nothing new at all.

It's in the award that duty travel pilots travel in the highest class of travel that is offered on the flight so if the highest cabin in J and the cabin is full then commercial pax unfortunately get downgraded. Another scenario where it can happen if there's a cancelled flight so if J was full on the cancelled flight you've got 12 pax displaced that need reaccommodating on alternative flights plus 2 tech crew who were operating the cancelled flight who now have to pax to their destination to operate another flight out of the downline port.

One other consideration: what factors does QF use to determine who gets the boot from a premium cabin? I hope they don't base it on something silly like solely the fare class or whether they use points to pay for the flight/upgrade (remember points and cash are the same thing as a matter of law). In theory Qantas should have first gone by status (i.e. bronzes get the boot first) then in the case of matching status factors like fare class, enterprise relationship (i.e. flyer works for a company that has a huge contract with QF). I would be surprised if OP was somehow at the top of the boot list based on such criteria.

-RooFlyer88

I think the fairest way to do it is whoever is on an award ticket or used points to upgrade as it's easy to reimburse the pax for the difference between J & Y if a classic award or refund the points if upgraded from a revenue fare in economy to J. A WP on an award ticket won't agree but what about an NB who's paid for a revenue fare in J? That would be the worst scenario when downgraded (as we all know from previous horror stories on J downgrades LAX-SYD) any refund is based on the difference between J & full economy fare so depending on the sector travelled could be a significant amount of dollars the pax is out of pocket.

Apologies I've only read about half the threa, but am wondering if they were tech crew:

- were they in uniform? (seems not)
- why would they be in the lounge? I almost never see tech crew (in uniform) in lounges unless it's, for example, a Captain coming to give an update on delay or something (this has happened rarely in my experience).

Now, if they were tech crew *NOT* in uniform, then I argue how they could be deadheading (a reason to require J).. potentially commuting? In which case, probably should be in Y.

it doesn't quite add up to me as I understand the situation (I may have missed parts in pages 3-6!).

Whatever the deal was this is really REALLY poor and of course gives status pax a really bad impression of the airline let alone how it was handled which would frustrate anyone.

Sure, I'm speculating a bit I know, but it all seems a bit odd imo.

Tech crew on duty travel are permitted to use the lounge, they're usually easy to spot as they often wear navy jumpers over their white shirts so just end up looking like tech crew trying not to look like tech crew. Funny thing is when pilots are operating they're always keen to get going asap but when they're paxing they're invariably always the last to board the flight.

That’s what I was wondering too. They were calling them pilots until they actually arrived then used the word techs. But their conversations didn’t sound like they were pilots. No uniforms to distinguish but civvies. At least one lived in Adelaide our departure place.

Pilots are referred to as tech crew. I'd expect them to wear uniform on duty travel if paxing on a flight where they are operating downline. If they're deadheading after operating a flight they may change into civvies. If they were young my guess is they're probably Dash8 drivers for Qantas Link.

The alternative of course is that had this issue been identified slightly earlier, volunteers could have been sought for the downgrade rather than picking on those who paid with extra points.

Very possible 2 other pax, without urgent travel requirements, would have been happy to fly J later, or accept compensation and travel in the main cabin.

I've never seen anyone come forward and voluntarily offload when booked in economy so I don't believe anyone travelling in J would want to either which means airline staff have to decide who gets the boot.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

Admitedly its been a long time since I left the coughpit for good, but back in dinosaur times I don't recall anything as halfbaked as this (the handling). I can vouch that many (even senior) aircrew sat wherever was available back in the day if necessary (but the average "flying public" was a cut above today's crowd way back then) ... and anyone as young as the guys have been described here would have copped a hiding for attitude (in some airlines at least). But as I said before, entitlement has crept in everywhere! (Overall, though, conditions are shyte in many ways compared to the golden era, so as I said in the previous post, you can understand trading some "perks" where you can get them ... and the current boss hardly gives a good example on behaviour/entitlement/BS).

 

[RooFlyer]

Pilots are referred to as tech crew. I'd expect them to wear uniform on duty travel if paxing on a flight where they are operating downline. If they're deadheading after operating a flight they may change into civvies.

Begs the question then as to why they had to travel on this middle-of-the-day flight and displace commercial pax. The scenario posted by madrooster above (which I thought plausible, albeit unlikely) was that a change in plans for these 'techs' meant they had to change their destination/timing for some duty in MEL and hence were put on this flight about the time it started boarding.

Call 'techs' pilots if you like, but if these guys were pilots, then golly.

 

[Mickey Mouse]

they're usually easy to spot as they often wear navy jumpers over their white shirts so just end up looking like tech crew trying not to look like tech crew. Funny thing is when pilots are operating they're always keen to get going asap but when they're paxing they're invariably always the last to board the flight.

Its funny how the DiCraprio crowd always think you want to look like "the pilot", when the first thing you want to do is ditch the uniform!

 

[Must...Fly!]

They are an asset to the airline.

If only the airline saw it that way...

Begs the question then as to why they had to travel on this middle-of-the-day flight and displace commercial pax.

A thousand and one reasons. I think this bit has been done to death, the real question is why it was dealt with the way it was by the so-called executive (who clearly wasn't an executive).

Edit: And actually why the staff were behaving the way they were, if the allegations @Pushka has put forward are true (and I have no reason to doubt)

 

[Flashback]

I've never seen anyone come forward and voluntarily offload when booked in economy so I don't believe anyone travelling in J would want to either which means airline staff have to decide who gets the boot.

I've given up my Y seat before, so another person could get home. Was put up for the night at the Cable Beach Club Resort, or whatever it was called back then and flown home J the next day. Taxi to and from provided.

 

[prozac]

I've given up my Y seat before, so another person could get home. Was put up for the night at the Cable Beach Club Resort, or whatever it was called back then and flown home J the next day. Taxi to and from provided.

Did you ever order the ribs for dinner there in the 80's! Served on a huge plate along with 3 or 4 linen napkins. Best value ever.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Begs the question then as to why they had to travel on this middle-of-the-day flight and displace commercial pax. The scenario posted by madrooster above (which I thought plausible, albeit unlikely) was that a change in plans for these 'techs' meant they had to change their destination/timing for some duty in MEL and hence were put on this flight about the time it started boarding.

Call 'techs' pilots if you like, but if these guys were pilots, then golly.

They probably had to get to MEL asap to operate a flight because maybe the tech crew on that flight couldn't operate it for any number of reasons. It's possible the crew originally scheduled to operate the flight were out of hours or stuck in a regional port if the aircraft they were operating into MEL was u/s. Mad Rooster's scenario sounds entirely plausible to me. Sometimes the real reasons are so mundane and pedestrian but it's always good to read the conspiracy theories!

 

[DC3]

… but it's always good to read the conspiracy theories!

… and they just keep coming. This is AFF after all.

 

[jb747]

I guess it comes back to how you define “very young”. You probably won’t have a window seat in mainline at less than 30 or so, but QLink or Jetstar may well still be in diapers.

Uniforms are almost invariably covered up by a jumper if you go to the lounge. I rarely went there.

The decision on whether they travelled and its timing would have come from crew scheduling. Ground staff at Adelaide have no part in that. The exec would have just been a duty manager…not an exec.

You can drink (not in uniform) after a duty is complete. The person who suggested they may have been drinking inappropriately can place his comments where they deserve.

 

[Flyfrequently]

I hope @Pushka is adequately compensated and the rest of the trip is not soured by this very sub par experience.

Agree @Princess Fiona and good to see that @Pushka and Mr P are now relaxing by a Bali pool 🏖 post #157