Downgraded from Business Class.

[DaveB]

Having to stay over an extra day just so you a less 'done over' is also an extremely poor option. This option should also involve some form of monetary compensation along with free transfers, meals and 4+star accommodation given you are flying J.
Unless you are retired or work in the public service (I did for 20 years), doubt many people these days would be able to add an extra day onto their holiday without serious inconvenience.
Our last QFi flight in January involved a 330 that QF had flown PER - SIN and then our SIN - SYD leg knowing the planes entire IFE was not working. No compensation was offered by QF or sought and given other issues with the flight, we accepted it though each deciding to never again fly QFi and QFd only when VA is not available. On a recent SQ leg from SIN - CPH, my wife's IFE was unable to play movies which she wasn't concerned having her IPad and the chance to get more sleep. The SQ FA was fabulous trying everything to get the IFE working and offered a bottle of champers which she gratefully declined as we would have no need going on a full service cruise the next day.

 

[amaroo]

I think if QF re-booked J passengers in substandard accomodation with an early check-out for a late night flight we'd more than likely have heard either here (or elsewhere in SM) about it by now.
I personally prefer a less confrontational style as you generally catch more flies with honey.

My one and only experience of this sort of capper was mentioned up thread ... BA making the call to dump one of my party of 5 out of F and into J. My reaction was swift and blunt - it worked! Some other poor sod got bumped....

 

[amaroo]

Just said the same thing - if I was going to accept this it would have to be our normal standard of accommodation - I think you and I seem to have similar standards.

LOL - Can't see QF booking me a suite at Hotel Bel-Air ... with late check-out, return private transfers and breakfast at WGP

they did just that and all they got was economy boarding passes and a supervisor walking away in the middle of the conversation.

IMO allowing a supervisor to walk away during a conversation - is not standing your ground! No disrespect to the couple involved - confrontation is not everyone's cup of tea.

 

[TomVexille]

- confrontation is not everyone's cup of tea.

It really isn't. In the one or two cases where I've needed a result (airline or hotel to live up to their promises) staying calm but being firm in what I required did the trick.

 

[Limewood]

hypothetically speaking, which should be downgraded first?
1. award platinum?
2. paying Gold?

Staff travellers.

 

[knasty]

The lesson here is to stand your ground and don't accept any compromise that doesn't meet your demands/requirements. Squeaky wheel will always get the most attention.

I fully agree. A lot of us avoid confrontation but these days you really do have to 'fight for your rights'; in an appropriate tone of course. I do agree it seems the OP's parents were viewed as easy targets instead of Qantas applying its customer charter:

"Overbooked Flights
We take the utmost care in managing each flight, but on rare occasions a flight may be overbooked and we may need to seek a volunteer to change to another flight. In the unlikely event that there are no volunteers, we may need to ask a passenger to change to another flight. If this happens to you, and you arrived on time for your confirmed flight with all required documentation, we will rebook you on the next available flight on our services at no additional cost to you. Alternatively, if you no longer wish to travel, we will refund your fare."

I am sure if they had been bothered to properly call for volunteers, offering a modest but reasonable compensation, some passengers would have been happy to spend another day in LA.

When I recently had my BA A380 flight cancelled in HKG I was told I would be travelling 12 hours later on their next 777. I politely declined and after two hours of trying the (contract) staff at HKG got me on AF in the same class that evening. They worked their butts off dealing with accommodating 450 people, always smiling, always professional! Even if they couldn't ultimately accommodate me I would have greatly appreciated the staff's efforts. This is in stark contrast to the OP's situation - attitude is everything and in this case QF's attitude, via LAX staff and corporate policy, leaves a lot to be desired.

 

[UpInTheAir:)]

And the flow on from this bumping... if they are prepared to do this to J class paying passengers imagine how they treat the in-experienced traveller that saved all year for disc. economy tickets with no status... probably sleeping on the airport benches for them

This is certainly an eye opener... I wonder how much it has to do with the travel agent... maybe booking direct with QF gives better service? I know our travel agent (private enterprise) was helping in Australia when we were stuck in LA... luckily the time zone worked in our favour and she was awake!

Yes our accommodation was good when we were stuck in LA... something 5 star.. can't remember what.

 

[amaroo]

It really isn't. In the one or two cases where I've needed a result (airline or hotel to live up to their promises) staying calm but being firm in what I required did the trick.

It's a horses for courses call for me ... earlier this year we had problems with a booking at Park Hyatt DC. They didn't deliver on a confirmed booking, however, as our stay was 4 nights it was common sense to accept their apology and promises to make good. They made good and upgraded us to the Presidential Suite for the last three nights .... including NYE.

With flights, you only have one chance to do the business - miss it, you end up posting threads like this!

 

[Flying mermaid]

This is certainly an eye opener... I wonder how much it has to do with the travel agent... maybe booking direct with QF gives better service? I know our travel agent (private enterprise) was helping in Australia when we were stuck in LA... luckily the time zone worked in our favour.

I have for many years booked all our airfares direct with Qantas. I can't say whether it has given us better service or not. However it has meant on the rare occasions when I have needed changes I can deal directly with Qantas rather than negotiating indirectly. I have always had this gut feeling that Qantas would be more inclined to look after their "own" customers, but I have never needed to put this to the test. Seeing some of the comments on here I wonder if the fact that we have never been asked to downgrade might be because of this, but who knows - maybe just lucky (although we are not normally lucky - just have to look at our positions on the Gallipoli waiting list to see that ).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

IMO allowing a supervisor to walk away during a conversation - is not standing your ground! No disrespect to the couple involved - confrontation is not everyone's cup of tea.

Challenging that in the USA is likely to get the police called and the passenger arrested. I would not recommend that!!

 

[amaroo]

Challenging that in the USA is likely to get the police called and the passenger arrested. I would not recommend that!!

Rubbish .......

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I fully agree. A lot of us avoid confrontation but these days you really do have to 'fight for your rights'; in an appropriate tone of course. I do agree it seems the OP's parents were viewed as easy targets instead of Qantas applying its customer charter:

It's not Qantas' Customer Charter that is important here - it is the DOT regulations, which, IIRC, require airlines to seek volunteers. The customer charter probably has little legal effect, the DOT regulations do.

QF was fined $90,000 by the DOT earlier this year for failing to comply with regulations.

This is why I would recommend a short note to the DOT by the parents, so at least an investigation can take place.

Edited: just spoke with a friend of mine in the USA who's up on these things. They pointed out the DOT rules regarding volunteers apply only where flights are oversold and the passenger is denied boarding. This concept applies to the flight as a whole - not a particular cabin. So as the passengers were accommodated in the economy cabin, there is no prima facie requirement to seek volunteers. That would only be the case if the flight was totally full and they couldn't fly at all.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Rubbish .......

I've seen it happen. Please don't say it is rubbish unless you can categorically say it doesn't, in every situation.

Challenging an airline employee, or 'confrontation' as you put it, is something which can and does get the police called in the USA. I have personally seen it (50 of us waiting for a heavily delayed flight), the police sided immediately with the airline staff and weren't interest one iota in what the passengers had to say. There was no shouting, no aggression on behalf of the passengers - just a badly handled delay, a lack of any communication by the airline, and gate agents who said they felt 'overwhelmed' by constant questions and felt 'threatened'. They called the police who attended with three officers.

it was, by all accounts, a pathetic display by airline staff, but the police had a zero tolerance approach. There was no investigation in to what was happening, or why the pax were upset. Just a blanket siding with airline staff.

 

[blackcat20]

IMO allowing a supervisor to walk away during a conversation - is not standing your ground! No disrespect to the couple involved - confrontation is not everyone's cup of tea.

It really isn't. In the one or two cases where I've needed a result (airline or hotel to live up to their promises) staying calm but being firm in what I required did the trick.

Something I'm not very good at, so hopefully never find myself in this situation. But then, I'm likely to already be traveling in Y....

 

[Limewood]

Dear Emily,
Thank you for sharing the information of your parents situation and the incredibly poor responce by Qantas, I'm sure all here hope your parents get full compensation.

In the past on CX we've been compensated big time with cash and put on longer fights - still in J (HKG/SYD rather than HKG/CNS), upgraded at times and even given 4 x Y seats for 2 of us. On internal flights on various USA airlines have been asked at desk if we would go on a different flight but with excellent compensation offered.

Reading what has happened to your parents here is simply incredible.

Now the massive negative publicity is the last thing Q want, if the general news media get hold of this it will be far, far much worse, IMO Q should cut their losses, stop cough footing around and give the parents 2 x J to/from USA for free.

 

[vetrade]

I agree with MEL-Traveller - the US is no place for bravado where police are involved, whether that be at the airport on on the streets. They take a "no nonsense" approach and are very different to Aussie police. The cuffs go on very quickly if you show them disrespect or want to argue the point. Once they give you a directive you'd better do as they say. And being a DYKWIA foreigner won't help your cause either.

It's just like arguing with the TSA people over there - see how far that gets you or how much extra time they'll make you wait!

 

[TomVexille]

Something I'm not very good at, so hopefully never find myself in this situation. But then, I'm likely to already be traveling in Y....

I was travelling in Y and the airline tried to tell me (and 50 others) to book my own hotel at midnight at SFO and that I could fill in a form later for a $60 refund after they cancelled the flight.

I got a hotel voucher.

 

[maninblack]

Great post above by Equus but people have to be willing to take up the fight. Another important element is to take down the name of every QF (or other company in similar situations one may face) agent/employee/supervisor who you interact with and make sure they know that this is happening and that they will be personally implicated and named in any complaint or action. It can work wonders in changing the situations where staff may otherwise be dismissive. Shame, but we need to protect ourselves from such callous behaviour as experienced in this incident involving Qantas. "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance"

 

[knasty]

It's not Qantas' Customer Charter that is important here - it is the DOT regulations, which, IIRC, require airlines to seek volunteers. The customer charter probably has little legal effect, the DOT regulations do.

QF was fined $90,000 by the DOT earlier this year for failing to comply with regulations.

This is why I would recommend a short note to the DOT by the parents, so at least an investigation can take place.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm also not proposing that the OP's parents should not consider legal action. However the reality is pursuing a 'good faith' resolution with Qantas is likely to be a better outcome for all, assuming QF knows what's good for it. Committing to a legal course of action too early can cement that as the only course of action.

It appears Qantas did not uphold its Customer Charter. From a good faith perspective this is an important point; it's not a legal question which would be argued tooth and nail by QF's lawyers. Whilst we all want the OP's situation to be resolved, and we'd all be interested to know exactly how it is (hopefully) resolved, IMHO the best chances for the OP to obtain a result is to now deal with QF confidentially, reiterate a reasonable demand, and report back if and when an acceptable agreement is reached. If QF doesn't play ball then pursue any other avenue. The best thing QF can hope for is the OP's parents satisfied and a public acknowledgment of that on this forum.

 

[amaroo]

I've seen it happen. Please don't say it is rubbish unless you can categorically say it doesn't, in every situation.

Challenging an airline employee, or 'confrontation' as you put it, is something which can and does get the police called in the USA. I have personally seen it (50 of us waiting for a heavily delayed flight), the police sided immediately with the airline staff and weren't interest one iota in what the passengers had to say. There was no shouting, no aggression on behalf of the passengers - just a badly handled delay, a lack of any communication by the airline, and gate agents who said they felt 'overwhelmed' by constant questions and felt 'threatened'. They called the police who attended with three officers.

it was, by all accounts, a pathetic display by airline staff, but the police had a zero tolerance approach. There was no investigation in to what was happening, or why the pax were upset. Just a blanket siding with airline staff.

If you want to carry on like a pork chop - sure. Plenty of youtube vids showing d'heads in action. Who suggested this was the best course of action ?

It's rubbish to suggest that demanding a conversation to review the facts is going to get you locked-up. Being petrified into submission is a choice...