Downgraded from Business Class.

[Princess Fiona]

Hmmm, I'm happy to accept Emilyp word on this matter. Do you think she is confused ?

If they did ask everyone else to volunteer but not the lucky "couple" doesn't that suggest - they were targeted?

I'm also happy to accept EmilyP's word on this as well ie. her parents were not asked to volunteer to downgrade. If you read my response to her post that you have quoted you will see that.

I have never at any point said or even suggested that QF asked everyone else to volunteer except EmilyP's parents.

We don't know if QF asked anyone to volunteer, neither does EmilyP.
The answer to this question lies with QF.

 

[Princess Fiona]

So therefore we do know they didn't ask for volunteers.

And they were bumped. From J to F. So did they receive the written explanation?

How do we know this Pushka?

 

[Pushka]

How do we know this Pushka?

Because EmilyP's parents weren't asked. Unless they ask everyone then it isn't a voluntary process.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I think it's important to emphasise the point that 'bumped' = involuntary denied boarding. This does not appear to extend to change of class downgrades. The passengers weren't bumped, therefore the calling for volunteers and written explanations (etc) aren't necessarily on point.

 

[Pushka]

I think it's important to emphasise the point that 'bumped' = involuntary denied boarding. This does not appear to extend to change of class downgrades. The passengers weren't bumped, therefore the calling for volunteers and written explanations (etc) aren't necessarily on point.

Is Bumped defined anywhere?

 

[Princess Fiona]

Because EmilyP's parents weren't asked. Unless they ask everyone then it isn't a voluntary process.

Where is this defined ?
You have stated that we know that they didn't ask for volunteers.

 

[Princess Fiona]

I think it's important to emphasise the point that 'bumped' = involuntary denied boarding. This does not appear to extend to change of class downgrades. The passengers weren't bumped, therefore the calling for volunteers and written explanations (etc) aren't necessarily on point.

They are in the QF Customer Charter regarding Involuntary Downgrades.

EDIT: Ignore that, just read it again and you are absolutely correct it also only mentions Denied Boarding.

 

[Pushka]

How can something be deemed as being a voluntary process, which implies a right to say yes or no, when not everyone that is involved is asked the question?

And Princess, you have posted that you know EmilyP's parents weren't asked.

Ein confusen.

 

[Princess Fiona]

How can something be deemed as being a voluntary process, which implies a right to say yes or no, when not everyone that is involved is asked the question?

And Princess, you have posted that you know EmilyP's parents weren't asked.

Ein confusen.

QF don't have to ask everyone if they want to downgrade or move to another flight before doing involuntary downgrades. Maybe they asked 10 people the day before who all said "No thanks" before turning to their Amadeus/ Altea generated list of passengers who will be re-booked or involuntarily downgraded ??? Who knows what QF did or didn't do ????
I posted that I know EmilyP's parents weren't asked as that is what she has stated on here.

 

[medhead]

Given that you state the appointment is for a weekend, I will take a wild leap and suggest that the ¨specialist¨ is your clairvoyant. (No real medical specialist works weekends)

If you miss your appointment I would argue unfair play, as they can clearly foresee your inability to make said meeting.

This guy does, apparently.

*goes to call home to check the letter with details.

 

[Pushka]

Unless every passenger is asked to voluntarily change their flight then it cannot be deemed a voluntary process.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Unless every passenger is asked to voluntarily change their flight then it cannot be deemed a voluntary process.

Is this a published regulation or your opinion?

 

[Claire Lee]

I am in Germany at the moment.In the last few days I have heard about the Greek issues causing angst amongst European traders and the weakening of the Euro against the Pound, I have heard about how the economy caused the birth defects in children in many villages in the former Eastern Blok states due to poor quality control on fertilizers and pesticides being used to control insects and crops.I have heard about the accident that the beggar at Frankfurt Main sustained to lose both of his legs and half an arm, I heard about the closing of complete neighborhoods in southern Germany towns – basically WW2 ghettos now due to the impact of the weakening economy.I have seen children in rags begging on street corners in one of the most advanced economies in the world.And I have seen a group of people who have posted 487 posts on how bad someone elses life is because they were downgraded from business class.I have never (with the exception of a few, Princess please exclude yourself from this statement) in my life seen such a display of utter contempt against a business (Qantas) based on less than complete and accurate information – a wolf pack mentality of tear the Qantas representative to pieces because someone else is – an utter disgrace toward a company who obviously treats this site very well.This may well be my last post in a while as I am back on the road (air) again, but I need you all to know – most of you need to take a long hard look at yourselves, read what has been posted by the knowledgeable members and walk away from this thread.Alas, I would believe the damage is already done.

 

[woodborer]

So they bully a couple of passengers into agreeing to accept a dud deal and they get away avoiding all the obligations under the sun - that's how the it works! Pathetic behaviour IMHO and doesn't deserve support.

I am going to start by saying that I am somewhat dismayed at your use of the word 'bullying'. While I agree it has been handled less than well, the need for involuntary downgrades and the options available to passengers is available in the Conditions of Carriage - although we could argue over what 'appropriate' means.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Unless every passenger is asked to voluntarily change their flight then it cannot be deemed a voluntary process.

The only people they need to satisfy the 'volunteer' issue to is in respect to those who did not make the flight at all. If not, QF has to answer to the DOT. In this case the pax weren't denied boarding. Within the USA it is a little bit different because for domestic flights bags don't need to travel on the same plane as the passenger. Volunteers can be sought right up until the doors close. I'm not sure if that is practical for international flights.

 

[Pushka]

Perhaps we should discuss nothing else but world peace and shut down all forums on the internet that don't deal with life and death situations.

Princess Fiona, I believe I am using common law definitions that most of us would subscribe to.

 

[opusman]

Unless every passenger is asked to voluntarily change their flight then it cannot be deemed a voluntary process.

If you ask everybody and everybody says "no" then you have to involuntarily "bump" some of them. Therefore there's no point asking everybody. Either someone says "yes" earlier in the process or when you get to the last X (where X is the number you need to bump), asking them would be pointless if they're the ones you are going to involuntarily bump anyway.

 

[amaroo]

I have never said at any time that I have been bumped from a flight ?

I know - by reading your previous posts/opinions on the matter...

But, you also said "I understand as well as anyone else here how it works" ... I suggest - no you don't! Once it happens to you - you will know!

 

[Princess Fiona]

Princess Fiona, I believe I am using common law definitions that most of us would subscribe to.

So your interpretation is that unless QF have asked every single passenger booked to volunteer to be offloaded and/or downgraded then they have failed to conduct a Voluntary Downgrade procedure, is that what you mean?

 

[Pushka]

If you ask everybody and everybody says "no" then you have to involuntarily "bump" some of them. Therefore there's no point asking everybody. Either someone says "yes" earlier in the process or when you get to the last X (where X is the number you need to bump), asking them would be pointless if they're the ones you are going to involuntarily bump anyway.

It's called following due process. Unless you ask everyone there is potential to miss someone who would said yes and thereby avoiding someone being unnecessarily denied access.