Drivers in Ipswich QLD to get paid for trial on smart connected cars

[Flashback]

QUT prepares to undertake Australia's largest study on smart vehicles

Seeking 500 volunteer drivers.

www.itnews.com.au

Given frequent flying is not really a thing right now, perhaps frequent driving is? Looks like an interesting trial to take part in and you even get compensated for your time too. What's not clear is whether that data will feed back to your insurer and affect rates etc. It's interesting that they state you can only apply if you have comprehensive insurance.

 

[samh004]

Technically, I already do this every time I run Waze/Google Maps, so I'm not sure there's much to be learned about apps relaying slow downs and drivers reporting incidents in real time, this already happens. What I think would be great is if an API could be developed that every GPS company could tap into, thereby benefitting everyone, no matter what their software choice is.

I do think there's scope for improving traffic flow through providing information on the speed you need to do to not arrive at a red light. For example, the system might see your next traffic light will be red by the time you get there if doing the speed limit, but green if you drop 5-10KM/h – so being provided that information might be valuable.

 

[albatross710]

I already do this every time I run Waze/Google Maps, . I do think there's scope for improving traffic flow through providing information on the speed you need to do to not arrive at a red light. For example, the system might see your next traffic light will be red by the time you get there if doing the speed limit, but green if you drop 5-10KM/h – so being provided that information might be valuable.

SAMH004 I was toying with the idea of using the Brisbane City Council datasets and data feeds Roads Traffic and Parking | Brisbane City Council Data Directory getting a feel for how many cars were waiting at lights. One immediate benefit for me was I increased my acceleration along Stanley St to reach 55 kmph faster which resulted in me missing two red lights every day. makes me smile as I cross th last one as it turns orange as I'm halfway across..

Traffic Management — Intersection volume
Real time data of traffic volume and occupancy of lanes at Brisbane City Council signalised intersections and approaches


Another thing on the traffic app wish list is factoring in more route considerations.

a) Taking that winding backstreet google route is more bother to save 1 minute than just staying on the main roads.

b) Taking the toll road is not worthwhile to save one person 4 minutes BUT if I have 4 people in the car, then that toll option saves 4 x 4 minutes.


Cheers

 

[kyanar]

SAMH004 I was toying with the idea of using the Brisbane City Council datasets and data feeds Roads Traffic and Parking | Brisbane City Council Data Directory getting a feel for how many cars were waiting at lights. One immediate benefit for me was I increased my acceleration along Stanley St to reach 55 kmph faster which resulted in me missing two red lights every day. makes me smile as I cross th last one as it turns orange as I'm halfway across..

Traffic Management — Intersection volume
Real time data of traffic volume and occupancy of lanes at Brisbane City Council signalised intersections and approaches

It's not very real-time... last updated 8th August!

I do like data though, and it seems they've got a lot of other very useful data - like a KML of loading zones!

 

[albatross710]

It's not very real-time... last updated 8th August!

that's weird. Someone unplugged something somewhere.

for your data fix have you signed up to Qld fuel prices API Fuel Price Reporting - Fuel price publisher and data consumer API sign up website - Open Data Portal | Queensland Government

 

[kyanar]

that's weird. Someone unplugged something somewhere.

for your data fix have you signed up to Qld fuel prices API Fuel Price Reporting - Fuel price publisher and data consumer API sign up website - Open Data Portal | Queensland Government

Yup, it's a horrific format but usable. Considered ingesting it into Azure or AWS and turning it into a more consumable format.

 

[albatross710]

Yup, it's a horrific format but usable. Considered ingesting it into Azure or AWS and turning it into a more consumable format.

Every 8 hours I'm injesting it for my local area, and give myself a daily summary of my main travel routes options

 

[Sabot]

People love giving away their data for little to no compensation it seems.

 

[jb747]

This sounds like a terrible idea. Your speeding ticket will arrive in the mail. Big brother will be tracking your whereabouts. The world is full of surveillance already, so why help them with more?

 

[kyanar]

This sounds like a terrible idea. Your speeding ticket will arrive in the mail. Big brother will be tracking your whereabouts. The world is full of surveillance already, so why help them with more?

None of that is true. You can only legally be issued with a traffic fine by either a police officer or one of a very specific set of devices (certified speed/red light cameras). It is not possible to get a fine by installing an app or whatever or participating in this study. Second, QUT isn't an arm of the government, but they absolutely are bound by the Privacy Act. They couldn't give this info to the government without your permission if they wanted to (which generally universities don't, because they actually want people to participate in studies...)

 

[Sabot]

None of that is true. You can only legally be issued with a traffic fine by either a police officer or one of a very specific set of devices (certified speed/red light cameras). It is not possible to get a fine by installing an app or whatever or participating in this study. Second, QUT isn't an arm of the government, but they absolutely are bound by the Privacy Act. They couldn't give this info to the government without your permission if they wanted to (which generally universities don't, because they actually want people to participate in studies...)

1. Yet.
2. You can be issued other traffic related infringements by council employees.
3. QUT will absolutely provide information when court ordered.
4. Tracking of people through their metadata is already widely used by both Government and the commercial sector.

 

[kyanar]

1. Yet.
2. You can be issued other traffic related infringements by council employees.
3. QUT will absolutely provide information when court ordered.
4. Tracking of people through their metadata is already widely used by both Government and the commercial sector.

1. They're not going to change the law to allow uncalibrated devices to issue infringements. Practically every single one would be thrown out by a magistrate. Loosen your tinfoil hat.
2. Council officers can only issue stationary vehicle infringements (i.e. parking). They cannot issue speeding fines, red light fines, or any of those things.
3. A court order must specify exactly what is being ordered, and why. A court order for "everyone who was speeding" would be unlawful, and be declined. Again, loosen your tinfoil hat.
4. The commercial sector is largely unregulated. The government, however, is not. I can tell you right now without a shadow of a doubt that neither the police nor the transport department have anywhere near the level of access to data that you seem to think they do.

 

[jb747]

None of that is true. You can only legally be issued with a traffic fine by either a police officer or one of a very specific set of devices (certified speed/red light cameras). It is not possible to get a fine by installing an app or whatever or participating in this study. Second, QUT isn't an arm of the government, but they absolutely are bound by the Privacy Act. They couldn't give this info to the government without your permission if they wanted to (which generally universities don't, because they actually want people to participate in studies...)

1. They're not going to change the law to allow uncalibrated devices to issue infringements. Practically every single one would be thrown out by a magistrate. Loosen your tinfoil hat.
2. Council officers can only issue stationary vehicle infringements (i.e. parking). They cannot issue speeding fines, red light fines, or any of those things.
3. A court order must specify exactly what is being ordered, and why. A court order for "everyone who was speeding" would be unlawful, and be declined. Again, loosen your tinfoil hat.
4. The commercial sector is largely unregulated. The government, however, is not. I can tell you right now without a shadow of a doubt that neither the police nor the transport department have anywhere near the level of access to data that you seem to think they do.

Accusing someone of having, or wearing, a tinfoil hat does not mean that their concerns are unwarranted.

Actually uncalibrated, or perhaps I should say “calibrated by decree“ devices are allowed now. A policeman can issue a fine based on his estimate of the speed. They might be good at it, but they most certainly are not calibrated. In any event, the need for a calibrated device can be negated by the way the law is written. As any smart car would be using GPS, it’s probably hard to argue that it isn’t calibrated, to well beyond the level of most instruments.

Police, transport departments, or anyone else for that matter, will have whatever access they are given by the government. There is nothing fixed in that particular goalpost. The fact that our government has been leading the charge to breach cell phone encryption, does not make me feel that they would treat car data as anything other than a treasure trove.

I’ve lived for the vast majority of my working life, with flight recorders monitoring every detail of my flights. Whilst they were fitted in an attempt to improve safety, numerous jurisdictions around the world treat them simply as a source of information for police prosecutions. Any system can, and will, be subverted from its advertised use.

I have a car which already has this sort of technology. The level, and detail, in the tracking is quite amazing. I see no reason for any department to have anything like that.

 

[kyanar]

Accusing someone of having, or wearing, a tinfoil hat does not mean that their concerns are unwarranted.

In this case, it does.

Actually uncalibrated, or perhaps I should say “calibrated by decree“ devices are allowed now. A policeman can issue a fine based on his estimate of the speed. They might be good at it, but they most certainly are not calibrated. In any event, the need for a calibrated device can be negated by the way the law is written. As any smart car would be using GPS, it’s probably hard to argue that it isn’t calibrated, to well beyond the level of most instruments.

That's a police officer. As we've already established, a police officer can issue fines. But if they do so based on an estimate, it isn't a high bar to challenge in court with literally any evidence whatsoever (and if you do elect to take it to court, the department would almost certainly just waive it. Too hard).

Police, transport departments, or anyone else for that matter, will have whatever access they are given by the government. There is nothing fixed in that particular goalpost. The fact that our government has been leading the charge to breach cell phone encryption, does not make me feel that they would treat car data as anything other than a treasure trove.

Again with the tinfoil hat stuff. The government wants this stuff for intelligence agencies, not state police departments. As I said previously, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that police agencies have nowhere near as much access to data as you think, and find it much harder than you assert to get to it. They're not ASIO.

I’ve lived for the vast majority of my working life, with flight recorders monitoring every detail of my flights. Whilst they were fitted in an attempt to improve safety, numerous jurisdictions around the world treat them simply as a source of information for police prosecutions. Any system can, and will, be subverted from its advertised use.

Relevance?

I have a car which already has this sort of technology. The level, and detail, in the tracking is quite amazing. I see no reason for any department to have anything like that.

By your twisted logic, the government already has access to that information since you seem to be asserting that giving that info to QUT as part of a research study would mean the government automatically gets access. News flash - your car manufacturer is vulnerable to the exact same court orders as QUT.

 

[samh004]

This sounds like a terrible idea. Your speeding ticket will arrive in the mail. Big brother will be tracking your whereabouts. The world is full of surveillance already, so why help them with more?

I love how offtopic this has become over some research that intends to actually help drivers in the long run.

That said, why do some immediately reach for their tinfoil hats as if to say that only some laws are worth following and they don't want big brother watching them? If you're not breaking any laws, what's the problem? Big brother can watch all he likes if you're not doing anything wrong, surely? Why is it acceptable to speed but not acceptable to commit murder? They're both laws.

 

[Vic]

It's interesting that they state you can only apply if you have comprehensive insurance.

Probably a liability issue for QUT in case research participants have an accident and claim it was due to the research or something. Could also be an ethic approval requirement.

Onto the other concerns being expressed, I'd would think the ethics approval also requires de-identification of the data.

, the government already has access to that information since you seem to be asserting that giving that info to QUT as part of a research study would mean the government automatically gets access. News flash - your car manufacturer is vulnerable to the exact same court orders as QUT.

The police have for a long time downloaded data for the engine system for accidents. They don't need the manufacturer to do so

 

[kyanar]

The police have for a long time downloaded data for the engine system for accidents. They don't need the manufacturer to do so

The OBD "black box" data? True, it's only recently(ish) that it's been admissible as evidence, and it still relies on physical access to the vehicle, and a warrant.

 

[p--and--t]

The police have for a long time downloaded data for the engine system for accidents. They don't need the manufacturer to do so

A bit off topic, but hey.....

...anybody can buy the appropriate dongle online and gather all the data the car holds. Don't need QUT app to get almost the same "private" data some are expressing concerns about. Your local mechanic accesses it every time you go for a service. Some cars send the data "over the air" and can be hacked by anyone.

The police (and many others) already have roadside, mobile, satellite and drone cameras collecting that "private" data.

That's without going into google camera cars, the guy next door, council cameras, security cameras in every aisle of every supermarket and store (both the obvious ones and the secret ones), people with camera phones, dash cams, street cameras, front door cams pointing at the street, etc etc etc etc etc

 

[Sabot]

I love how offtopic this has become over some research that intends to actually help drivers in the long run.

That said, why do some immediately reach for their tinfoil hats as if to say that only some laws are worth following and they don't want big brother watching them? If you're not breaking any laws, what's the problem? Big brother can watch all he likes if you're not doing anything wrong, surely? Why is it acceptable to speed but not acceptable to commit murder? They're both laws.

Perhaps some people just don't feel they need or want this "help"

This is the problem, many of these programs developed under the guise of "community or road safety" are not optional. Research like this is used to directly inform legislation and policy without any real regard for civil liberties or whether it is an effective use of taxpayer funds. In most cases Governments have a preconceived notion of the direction they would like to take and simply fund research which supports this.

It's also unhelpful that much of the statistics and data gathered in these programs is used inappropriately or in a misleading fashion, one simply has to look at how Governments market anti-speeding and road campaigns to see an example of this.

I do love how people dismiss concerns regarding privacy and civil liberties with various "Tin Foil Hat" jibes.
Pretty laughable when you consider the dramatic expansion of surveillance taking place throughout the world at the moment.

Typically this is followed with"Well if you're not breaking the law, what have you got to worry about?" and this is fine, but who decides what is right and wrong? who decides what becomes legislation? As we've seen, the erosion of civil liberties and rights only goes in one direction.

I'd encourage anyone with an interest to have a look at this AFR article from 2019 which spells out some of the pending issues with data collection and surveillance. Facial recognition is about to end your privacy. How do you feel about that?