Dual Citizen child's AUS passport expired. RENEW in Bali?

[Bikinikitty]

First my situation. My 6 year old is a Dual Citizen (America and Australia). She has a current American passport and EXPIRED Australian passport (expired Sep 2015).
I contacted immigration last year when we traveled to America for July/Aug 15. I was concerned about the 6 months validity rule with her Australian passport and that she would not be allowed to travel because her passport would expire a month after we return from our trip to America. I was advised to use her US passport (having another 2 years validity still) to depart Perth and enter into the US. They then said that, when entering back into Australia, as long as she had proof of Australian Citizenship (passport), she would be allowed back into the country and it did not matter that there was not 6 months validity on her passport. In fact, he said technically, Australian citizens could not be denied entry, it just would most likely be a delay at the airport until they were able to look up details of citizenship in the system. This all went down without a hitch and we all came back to Australia with no problem
With the above info in mind, I made a BIG ASSUMPTION that the immigration officer meant that as long as we could prove she is Australian citizen she would be allowed back into Australia. SOOOOO I had planed to depart Perth to Bali on her current US passport (no problem) and then she would be able to re-enter Australia with her expired passport, her birth certificate and her father birth certificate (he is Australian born before 1987, which is considered proof of Aus citizenship).
WHY you ask would I not just renew her Australian passport and save this hassle? We do not have any plans (unless we win lotto) to travel internationally again until my husbands long service leave in 2020. Which means we were going to have to pay for my daughter to have a new passport for essentially this one trip to Bali (as child passports are only valid for 5 years). I thought that for this one time, as she would be able to depart Australia without an issue on her US passport, that it could be ok to re-enter Australia on her expired passport with the above advice given to me.
We are leaving on Tuesday (in 1.5 days) and my husband made the point, wait, we might get denied boarding in DPS airport because of her expired AUS passport! I have just called the Australian passport office to check and they said that it is not a good idea to try an re-enter Australia with an expired passport and they can not say what the outcome would be. EEEEEK.
In hindsight, I know (because my husband is cursing me and telling me so) that I should have just renewed her Australian passport. But times are tough and I was trying to save money and did really think because of the advice given from department of immigration that my daughter would be able to enter back into Australia on her expired passport (and other proof of citizenship).
So moving forward, i really don't want to, nor can afford to change our flights in order to wait 3 days (this is what Australian passports said the quickest they could get her an appointment). to get her passport renewed in Perth.
I am hoping that I can get my 6 year olds daughters passport renewed whilst in Bali at the Australian Embassy. I will be able to take all the necessary documentation with me for renewal. We will be there for 11 days (2 of those days being a SAT/SUN).
Will this be enough time to get her passport renewed? I have read 3 weeks, but also read that you can pay a priority fee to get it done sooner. Would it be better to say I lost her passport whilst there and get an emergency passport issued sooner?
Has anyone successfully entered back into Australia on an expired passport?

If I could please get some constructive advice, and not have people telling me how silly I have been. I realize now I should have dealt with this differently and am feeling pretty cough about the fact that I have potentially jeopardized my family holiday!
Thank you in advance

 

[mrs.dr.ron]

This might be a dumb question - but cant you use the American passport to leave and enter Australia ? If your daughter has dual citizenship must she use an Australian passport to enter Australia ?

Our eldest granddaughter was born in the USA, her mother is English, her father ( our son ) Australian - she has 3 passports - all expired - and lives here.
Let us know how you get on. best wishes !

 

[Bikinikitty]

This might be a dumb question - but cant you use the American passport to leave and enter Australia ? If your daughter has dual citizenship must she use an Australian passport to enter Australia ?

Hello, thanks for the idea. As am American citizen, my daughter would need to apply for some sort of visa, in this case the easiest would be a tourist visa. However, Australian citizens are not allowed to be granted a visa to Australia on another passport. Basically it says that she would be entering Australia under false pretenses.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This might be a dumb question - but cant you use the American passport to leave and enter Australia ? If your daughter has dual citizenship must she use an Australian passport to enter Australia ?

Our eldest granddaughter was born in the USA, her mother is English, her father ( our son ) Australian - she has 3 passports - all expired - and lives here.
Let us know how you get on. best wishes !

Australians are required to enter Australia on an Australian passport.

Bikinikitty - as far as I know, the advice given to you is in fact correct... an Australian citizen cannot be denied entry to Australia. But there could be delays.

If the problem is boarding the flight in DPS, an ESTA in the USA passport ('legalities' aside) should satisfy that requirement, but then they may (rightly) ask for proof of onward travel out of Australia is she is a US citizen.

Perhaps you could check with the operating airline - they will be the ones determining if they will carry you to Australia on an expired passport (Indonesian immigration won't care, you'll be showing them the USA passport your daughter entered on). Your case might be assisted as there are no intermediate stops between bali and Australia. I know airlines have refused carriage in cases where there's a transit or stopover - but that's because you wouldn't meet entry requirements along the way in case of delays or cancelled flights.

 

[Bikinikitty]

Australians are required to enter Australia on an Australian passport.

Bikinikitty - as far as I know, the advice given to you is in fact correct... an Australian citizen cannot be denied entry to Australia. But there could be delays.

If the problem is boarding the flight in DPS, an ESTA in the USA passport ('legalities' aside) should satisfy that requirement, but then they may (rightly) ask for proof of onward travel out of Australia is she is a US citizen.

Perhaps you could check with the operating airline - they will be the ones determining if they will carry you to Australia on an expired passport (Indonesian immigration won't care, you'll be showing them the USA passport your daughter entered on). Your case might be assisted as there are no intermediate stops between bali and Australia. I know airlines have refused carriage in cases where there's a transit or stopover - but that's because you wouldn't meet entry requirements along the way in case of delays or cancelled flights.

Thanks for your reply. I know you said "legalities aside" with getting an ESTA in her USA passport. I thought you can not get a visa issued to Australia, to an an Australian Citizen?

This is NOT looking good

I could try and go to the Perth passport office first thing with my daughter and plead my case to have her passport renewed on the spot? Has anyone had this work before?

Other than that, I could try and get an emergency passport issued whilst in Bali?

 

[junbugging]

Thanks for your reply. I know you said "legalities aside" with getting an ESTA in her USA passport. I thought you can not get a visa issued to Australia, to an an Australian Citizen?

Not sure if it helps, but an ESTA isn't a visa.

 

[BillytheFIsh]

Thanks for your reply. I know you said "legalities aside" with getting an ESTA in her USA passport. I thought you can not get a visa issued to Australia, to an an Australian Citizen?

This is NOT looking good

I could try and go to the Perth passport office first thing with my daughter and plead my case to have her passport renewed on the spot? Has anyone had this work before?

Other than that, I could try and get an emergency passport issued whilst in Bali?

I would be going to the passport office first thing in the morning to see what can be done. I saw this a couple of years ago that might give you some hope:

How To Renew An Australian Passport In 4 Hours | Lifehacker Australia

make sure both parents are available/ have signed everything necessary as that can be an issue.

 

[Bikinikitty]

Not sure if it helps, but an ESTA isn't a visa.

Ahh, so I could get ESTA in her US passport and use that to check into the airport in DPS. IF they were to ask for onward travel out of Australia, I could then show my daughters expired Aus passport and explain that she will be allowed entry at Australian immigration as they will be able to look up proof that she is Australian citizen. I could also have her birth certificate, and her fathers birth certificate and passport....

There are so many IF's in this situation that I probably would be stressed during our family holiday wondering what was going happen when we want to come back home. I feel like such a fool!

 

[Bikinikitty]

I would be going to the passport office first thing in the morning to see what can be done. I saw this a couple of years ago that might give you some hope:

How To Renew An Australian Passport In 4 Hours | Lifehacker Australia

make sure both parents are available/ have signed everything necessary as that can be an issue.

Thanks Billy, do you know if photos can be taken at the passport office? I plan to be there first thing tomorrow, which means I won't have time to go somewhere to get her photos taken before hand...

 

[Peter D]

I thought an ESTA was for a foreign passport holder entering America. A US passport holder doesn’t need one and probably wouldn’t be issued with one.
There is an Australian equivalent known as an ETA which would let a US passport holder enter Australia. But it is for non-Australians applying from overseas.
I’d forget theses and run with billythefish’s suggestions.
If Perth Passport Office doesn’t do photos try Office Works (who open early) or Australia Post. Some local chemist shops do them.
Proving who your daughter is on arrival is not the problem. It is simply having document to let you get on the plane. Might be worth asking the Airline for special treatment but I suspect they will stick to the rules.

 

[michaelj]

Having some experience getting an emergency passport for a child overseas........I strongly endorse the comment by BillytheFish that forms etc need to be signed by both parents. In fact, as it is urgent, both parents should go to the interview at the passport office. The DoI are rightly concerned about one parent applying for a passport for a child, even if Lebanon is not the intended destination!

 

[Buzzard]

You cannot actually "renew" a child passport for a child of that age.
You will need to complete a new application, her existing expired passport will only serve as proof of citizenship.
Having photos taken is not enough. There is a guarantor section as part of the application and the guarantor needs to endorse (correctly) one of the photos as well as complete the guarantor section. The person acting as your guarantor must also be able to qualify as a guarantor.

 

[BillytheFIsh]

That doesn't sound promising Buzz (needing to do a new application). Hopefully OP has had some luck and will provide an update.

 

[Buzzard]

You can only process a renewal for a child where the child's passport was issued on or after 1st July 2005 and the child was 16 years of age or more when the passport was issued. Even 1 day short of 16 years old and it's a new application I'm afraid.

 

[Bikinikitty]

OOOOOOk everyone, I have an outcome. I had posted this with my TripAdvisor forum peeps as well and I will paste that update here.

I have just rushed around like a crazy woman getting all my daughters passport documents together, filled out and application and gone to a 24 hour chemist to get her passport photos. I am still going to the Perth PP office first thing as per others suggestion and try our luck. If they pity me, then I will have her new passport tomorrow and problem solved.
If they turn me away and say I have to wait the 2 business days, the information you have given above has given me a back up and we'll depart as planned on her US passport and have to deal with things at DPS airport on return to Perth. Not the best option, but at least now I am armed with some useful info.
I will post the final outcome so if anyone else in the future is caught in a similar scenario, they can use this post for info.
Cross your fingers and toes for me for getting my little ones passport issued in Perth in one day!


INTERM update:
I was NOT one of those lucky people who have shown up to the passport office and was able to get a passport on the spot . I even had my 6 year old with me looking all sad, and the passport official was pretty robotic about the my situation. What she did do is get me an emergency appointment for later today, where I can lodge the application, but she will in no way guarantee that it will be issued today or even tomorrow. It would be Wed for a guarantee. She hinted that it is TECHNICALLY possible to issue on the same day, however these tend to be done only under compassionate circumstances (illness/death in the family). she said it's up to me, but she highly advised that I at least lodge the application today so there is a record of her with a valid passport in the system. So I will go to the appointment and try my luck with the interview officer and post another update later.

Update #3
I went to my 1145AM interview appointment (which I was able to get because of a cancellation) and presented my case. The officer was still very mater of fact about there being no way that he could gaureentee the passport be issued before 2 business days. He put my dauthers application in straight away and gave me a online ID to check the progress. He hinted at me to keep an eye at it regurlary and if by 2pm it hit 80% proccessed, it would most likly get issued that day. I continued to refresh this page as fast as a woodchuck could chuck wood.
1230PM : progress at 40% ???
1pm: Progress at 60% ??!!
145pm: progress at 80% (no way...??)
2pm: Application complete. Passport ready for collection! (HOLY LUCK!)

So, lodged my daughters application at 1145 AM and had it in my hot little hands by 230pm. I still can't belive it.

The passport lady that had been quite robotic and seemingly UN compassionate of my circumstances, said that the reason I got this through is because #1-I was there RIGHT at opening and FIRST in. #2- I had the new passport application completed correctly with all nessisary supporting documents. VERY LUCKY

During this whole day, they people at the passport office did not give me much hope that I could get the passport in one day, but were still encouraging me to submit the application anyway. In hind sight they must have know it was possible, but CAN NOT guarantee this.

So there ya go, hope this info helps others in the future and THANK you all so much for your advice!

Oh yes and another thing. Even though I was feeling quite anxious and impatient on the inside, I kept my cool the whole time (except the first time they told me they could not help me, when I welled up a bit). I read a post of this happening to someone else and went into the interview with the realization that, at the end of the day, this predicament I was in was my fault. I did see one other person in a similar circumstance and they were losing their S#$T at the officer. They walked out without an appointment. I can't say that this was why mine got pushed through, I'm just saying, sometimes you catch more flies with honey

 

[Peter D]

Well done, fantastic result. Enjoy your holiday.

 

[BillytheFIsh]

Well done. I'm glad it worked out for you. Have a great trip.

 

[Buzzard]

<snip>

Oh yes and another thing. Even though I was feeling quite anxious and impatient on the inside, I kept my cool the whole time (except the first time they told me they could not help me, when I welled up a bit). I read a post of this happening to someone else and went into the interview with the realization that, at the end of the day, this predicament I was in was my fault. I did see one other person in a similar circumstance and they were losing their S#$T at the officer. They walked out without an appointment. I can't say that this was why mine got pushed through, I'm just saying, sometimes you catch more flies with honey

Good on you Bikinikitty, nice to hear it was all sorted for you.

I had a client give me a gob full last week, she was from the beach. On more than one occasion I asked her to stop arguing with me and listen to the advice I was giving as I was trying to help her. Let's just say I asked her to leave the office or be removed by security. She didn't get what she wanted that day. So again well done Bikinikitty, I hope you and your family have a fabulous holiday.

 

[spudseamus]

Yes another one down to " don't shoot the messenger " lol! Well done !

 

[medhead]

You can only process a renewal for a child where the child's passport was issued on or after 1st July 2005 and the child was 16 years of age or more when the passport was issued. Even 1 day short of 16 years old and it's a new application I'm afraid.

I know you know best. but I was sure we did a renewal of my kids about 4 years ago. Maybe it was new applications but it felt easier that the initial passport application, well aside from the fact that some dufus didn't send in evidence of cutting the bits off the old passport for one of the kids.