Earn points on Bank Transfers

[SOPOOR]

What a shame. With a 100K limit, if you'd got on to PayAll when it first came out on 1 April 2021, you'd have been able to fully automate it at 2 x 35K/month without ever needing to make top-up payments back to the card due to your sky high credit limit able to carry all the debt burden at all times.

If you'd done so, by now I reckon you'd be up somewhere north of 2 million combined points across your two FFFL accounts (worth $10,000 as Flybuys cash) and have earnt nearly a similar amount in bank interest on the money borrowed at 0%. Makes me wanna cry.

Sadly, there's little point in starting now. You've missed the boat big time I'm afraid. NAB will be shutting down PayAll and probably all the Citibank cards as well by around March next year anyway, so for you starting from scratch, it's a lot of learning to do for not much benefit that's not going to last very long.

hmmm is it confirme that they are shutting down in march?
and I assume it means all existing setups will all be cancelled? or just new ones?

 

[Legoman]

Nothing is confirmed yet, but put it this way… the writing is on the wall, and it's been put there in indelible ink.

 

[SOPOOR]

Nothing is confirmed yet, but put it this way… the writing is on the wall, and it's been put there in indelible ink.

Well fingers crossed.....

 

[Chicken]

Nothing is confirmed yet, but put it this way… the writing is on the wall, and it's been put there in indelible ink.

There is no writing on the wall.

NAB had only said that fees and features of Plus transaction accounts are staying (which is good), and they have said nothing on credit cards.

 

[Legoman]

There is no writing on the wall.

NAB had only said that fees and features of Plus transaction accounts are staying (which is good), and they have said nothing on credit cards.

You mean apart from ending the companion Diners Club card on Octover 16? That's a credit card (in fact it's six credit cards in one - Diners; RuPay; UnionPay; Discover; JCB; BC Card) by my reckoning and that advice came only last week. The same week they announced the end of the Citibank Plus transaction account and free-foreign ATM cash withdraw access? And before that the ending of the foreign currency transaction accounts? And before that the ending of the Plus account's ability to do fee free foreign currency transfers?

You mean apart from all that writing on the wall?

 

[Chicken]

The same week they announced the end of the Citibank Plus transaction account and free-foreign ATM cash withdraw access?

Where have they said that they will end the Plus transaction account? They have said that they are moving this to NAB. And where have they said that they will terminate free foreign ATM cash access? I have not seen any comm on this?

And before that the ending of the foreign currency transaction accounts?

This they have actually said.

And before that the ending of the Plus account's ability to do fee free foreign currency transfers?

This is because our accounts are leaving Citi. NAB does not have overseas offices, what do you expect NAB to do?

You mean apart from all that writing on the wall?

Let me just say that, what you have suggested does NOT appear in any of the comms from NAB.

 

[levelnine]

There is no writing on the wall.

NAB had only said that fees and features of Plus transaction accounts are staying (which is good), and they have said nothing on credit cards.

I suggest you check the latest NAB financial reporting announcements to the ASX and come back to this thread.

 

[Legoman]

Except it does…

You can very safely assume the ending of the Citibank branding will also end all the unique features of Citibank including fee free ATM withdraws, PayAll, free foreign currency transfers, Fixed Payment Option setups with free gift cards, free cheque-to-self balance transfers etc. All of these features have always been unique to Citibank and never replicated or copied in any way by any other big four Australian bank.

Confirmation when your Citi branded account has been moved to your NAB branded account, at which point:

• You will not be able to access your Citibank Plus Transaction Account on Citi Online or Citi Mobile® App • A closing Citi branded statement that will include all transactions up until the date on when your funds moved to the NAB branded account will be accessible in NAB Internet Banking • Your previous Citi statements will also be available in NAB Internet Banking. For more information, please visit our dedicated support page citibank.com.au/nab-transactions-savings.

 

[Chicken]

Except it does…

You can very safely assume the ending of the Citibank branding will also end all the unique features of Citibank including fee free ATM withdraws, PayAll, free foreign currency transfers, Fixed Payment Option setups with free gift cards, free cheque-to-self balance transfers etc. All of these features have always been unique to Citibank and never replicated or copied in any way by any other big four Australian bank.

These are things which will stop because you are moving to a new platform; but that doesn't mean things like fees and charges will stop.

Also, things like gift cards, they are promotions. They are not a feature of the banking products.

Just like, Woolworths say you spend X dollar you get X points, and you get to use the points to get money off your shop. Sure, they may run promotions every once a while in Woolworths Rewards say 10% off gift cards, but 10% off gift cards is not a feature of Woolworths Rewards, the features of WW Rewards is dollar off your shopping and QF points.

Some of the comments here are effectively putting words into NAB's mouth.

 

[levelnine]

Some of the comments here are effectively putting words into NAB's mouth.

The ending of the platform Citi uses to run products will mean the end of the features associated with that platform, such as PayAll.

 

[Chicken]

The ending of the platform Citi uses to run products will mean the end of the features associated with that platform, such as PayAll.

I think that's a bit far fetched, for some of the things.
For example:
The old platform has some people on $0 fee, some people on $300 annual for professional package, some people on $5 monthly fee. Are you saying that the NAB or 86400 platform does not allow $0 or $300 or $5 fee?
The old platform had old accounts with transaction fees. Are you saying that the new platform cannot maintain the old transaction fees?
The NAB platform currently has forex = x%. Are you saying that someone cannot to data load, to end date the x% currently, and insert a new rule with a start date of 1/4/2024 and value of 0% ?

 

[levelnine]

For example:

None of those are platform features. They are basic elements of an unsecured lending platform.

 

[Chicken]

None of those are platform features. They are basic elements of an unsecured lending platform.

So if this is the case, why can't I say that NAB is going to insert a new pricing rule, so all our Plus accounts will cost $300 a year annual fee, and all our free for life credit cards will cost $1450 per year? Because NAB is evil, right?

If the conversation is to keep inserting things into any possible scenario, then we could imagine anything we want.

I think this is called a negative thought loop, where because a person's mind is stuck in a loop, it's just going around and around, and unable to exit from the loop, regardless the fact that there are exits from the loop, but the mind is unable to take those exits, so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy

 

[levelnine]

So if this is the case, why can't I say that NAB is going to insert a new pricing rule, so all our Plus accounts will cost $300 a year annual fee, and all our free for life credit cards will cost $1450 per year? Because NAB is evil, right?

If the conversation is to keep inserting things into any possible scenario, then we could imagine anything we want.

I think this is called a negative thought loop, where because a person's mind is stuck in a loop, it's just going around and around, and unable to exit from the loop, regardless the fact that there are exits from the loop, but the mind is unable to take those exits, so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy

This has nothing to do with NAB being evil or negative thought loops (WTF lol).

It is very simple. Citi PayAll is the most almighty of loss makers. They are literally giving away points for free. When banks give away points for sign up bonuses, they are doing so in exchange for getting you as a customer. And when banks give away points for spend, they make it back in merchant fees. Citi PayAll is not tied to any sign up bonus or income from merchant fees. There is a reason no other unsecured lending provider in Australia offers anything remotely comparable to it.

The only reason Citi introduced the feature was to pump up customer transaction volumes to make the Citi brand look more valuable ahead of selling it off. A tale as old as time in financial markets.

 

[Legoman]

Some of the comments here are effectively putting words into NAB's mouth.

NAB have a LOT of history and form which simply cannot be ignored of saying and promising things and then doing nothing of the sort. There is 10 years worth of borken promises from NAB about improving the website and features/services of their UBank brand that they never, ever got around to actually making good on in 10 years! Eventually they just gave up trying to fix it and instead bought 86400 and forcibly rolled everyone over into a new bank they described as a 'upgrade' but which everyone who has actually used it describes as a significant downgrade with many features done away with altogether. All the 86400 staff were also got rid of and the amalgamation of the two banks was an unmitigated amateurish disaster.

All of this is well documented recent historical fact. One only needs to read the many pages about UBank on Product Review to get a tiny glimpse into just how incompetant NAB are. All of this goes to estabishing that NAB are not to be trusted in anything they say. NAB are as believable in their word as Vladmir Putin was in saying he had no intention of invading Ukraine when he had troops massed all along their Northern border in Belarus in a 'training camp' in February 2022.

 

[Legoman]

I think that's a bit far fetched, for some of the things.
For example:
The old platform has some people on $0 fee, some people on $300 annual for professional package, some people on $5 monthly fee. Are you saying that the NAB or 86400 platform does not allow $0 or $300 or $5 fee?
The old platform had old accounts with transaction fees. Are you saying that the new platform cannot maintain the old transaction fees?
The NAB platform currently has forex = x%. Are you saying that someone cannot to data load, to end date the x% currently, and insert a new rule with a start date of 1/4/2024 and value of 0% ?

There's a distinction between what can be done in a hypothetical sense and what NAB are willing to do in a real world sense. Lots of things are possible to do in a hypothetical sense and customers of UBank spent 10 years metaphorically screaming at NAB to implement seemingly obvious, simple changes to a coughtastic website which would have improved life for everyone including NAB, but NAB refused to do any of them or even explain why they wouldn't.

A leopard can't change its spots. There is over 10 years of evidence for NAB's disdain for its customers. To suggest that pattern of disrespect is going to change overnight while they strip and gut Citibank to a shelled out corpse just the same as they did 86400 after they bought it is fanciful at the very best.

 

[Chicken]

There's a distinction between what can be done in a hypothetical sense and what NAB are willing to do in a real world sense. Lots of things are possible to do in a hypothetical sense and customers of UBank spent 10 years metaphorically screaming at NAB to implement seemingly obvious, simple changes to a coughtastic website which would have improved life for everyone including NAB, but NAB refused to do any of them or even explain why they wouldn't.

Why is moving from Citi internet banking to ubank a problem? I had ubank up to 2 years ago, and both Citi internet banking and ubank are pretty rubbish, but both allow paying to other banks, both have Osko, both have PDF statements, so what's the fuss? Have I missed something?

 

[Legoman]

Have I missed something?

Well, yes you have. If you've only used UBank for 2 years, then you are severely lacking in the full UBank experience since inception of around 2012 or thereabouts. There is a LOT more history about UBank, it's failings and NAB's lack of response to complaints over those years to which you are not aware. You only know UBank from the 86400 years. UBank existed for a whole other decade before 86400 had even be dreamt up and it was always littered with bugs and faults and weird website behaviour and constant crashes and maintenance outages. NAB never fixed anything and eventually just gave up thinking buying 86400 would fix it. Then they proceeded to destroy 86400 as well. In short, everything NAB touches turns to excrement in double quick time. NAB are really good like that.

 

[oz_mark]

There's a distinction between what can be done in a hypothetical sense and what NAB are willing to do in a real world sense. Lots of things are possible to do in a hypothetical sense and customers of UBank spent 10 years metaphorically screaming at NAB to implement seemingly obvious, simple changes to a coughtastic website which would have improved life for everyone including NAB, but NAB refused to do any of them or even explain why they wouldn't.

A leopard can't change its spots. There is over 10 years of evidence for NAB's disdain for its customers. To suggest that pattern of disrespect is going to change overnight while they strip and gut Citibank to a shelled out corpse just the same as they did 86400 after they bought it is fanciful at the very best.

They can't leave the Citi stuff where it was. They are licenesed to use the name, and Citi's platform until the end of next year. The plan all along was to move the accounts onto a NAB platform, and stop using the Citi name.

 

[Chicken]

Well, yes you have. If you've only used UBank for 2 years

I meant I used ubank up until 2 years ago. So, I actually had ubank from 2012 until 2021.

then you are severely lacking in the full UBank experience since inception of around 2012 or thereabouts. There is a LOT more history about UBank, it's failings and NAB's lack of response to complaints over those years to which you are not aware. You only know UBank from the 86400 years. UBank existed for a whole other decade before 86400 had even be dreamt up and it was always littered with bugs and faults and weird website behaviour and constant crashes and maintenance outages. NAB never fixed anything and eventually just gave up thinking buying 86400 would fix it. Then they proceeded to destroy 86400 as well. In short, everything NAB touches turns to excrement in double quick time. NAB are really good like that.

I did not experience any of these from 2012 until 2021. Yes, ubank web site is cough, but which bank isn't? The only internet banking I consider OK to use is Suncorp. I have credit card with ANZ and WBC now and they are both rubbish, same pile of rubbish as credit unions.