Earning QFF points / credits on AA

[NM]

Seems to me that they view it as First for coach fare

Dave

Indeed. A First Class ticket/fare for a Coach price.

 

[Dave Noble]

Indeed. A First Class ticket/fare for a Coach price.

Or First class travel on a coach ticket would be more likely to me, since if it was a 1st class ticket it would would lose the benefit of circumventing the restrictions many US companies have which prohibit purchasing 1st class tickets. Providing 1st class travel on a coach ticket allows the loophole.

Dave

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Providing 1st class travel on a coach ticket allows the loophole.

Yup - beating the beancounters is the main (only) reason such a fare type exists.

 

[simongr]

Aside from how conufing the the KUP/YUP/xUP etc discussion is to a casual observer who is just starting to cope with F/J/Y as fare types I dont understand why the airlines would have any interest in creating a loophole to allow First class travel on a Economy ticket. IN understand that it gets around corporate policies that specify economy only travel but what is the incentive to do this?

If I re-read this correctly are you paying a First class PRICE but getting an economy ticket that has an almost guaranteed free upgrade to First?

To me (as an auditor) that is basically the airline facilitating a fraud by the passenger. Its like a hotel saying "If you agree to pay an extra $50 a night we will call it a standard room but upgrade you to a suite" - its not much different to saying "If you pay an extra $100 ovr the price we can split the extra".

 

[NM]

Aside from how conufing the the KUP/YUP/xUP etc discussion is to a casual observer who is just starting to cope with F/J/Y as fare types I dont understand why the airlines would have any interest in creating a loophole to allow First class travel on a Economy ticket. IN understand that it gets around corporate policies that specify economy only travel but what is the incentive to do this?

People will choose to fly with AA (of others offering the same type of fare/ticket) because the bean counters see they are paying an economy price for a ticket that looks like an economy fare basis, but the passengers gets to sit in First. So if I have a choice of spending say US$600 for a flexible coach seat on a flight like SEA-DFW by purchasing from Aardvark & Three Swallows Airlines, or spending US$600 what my account dept will think it is a coach ticket on AA but gets me a seat in F, then guess which one I am going to purchase! Accounts Dept are happy, I am happy, AA is happy. That makes for a Win/Win/Win in my books.

If I re-read this correctly are you paying a First class PRICE but getting an economy ticket that has an almost guaranteed free upgrade to First?

Not quite. You pay about the same as a fully flexible coach ticket, and get a guaranteed seat in the first class cabin if A/P class is available at the time you book. And of course it it isn't available at the time of booking then you either find a flight where it is available or purchase a discounted coach seat instead.

To me (as an auditor) that is basically the airline facilitating a fraud by the passenger. Its like a hotel saying "If you agree to pay an extra $50 a night we will call it a standard room but upgrade you to a suite" - its not much different to saying "If you pay an extra $100 ovr the price we can split the extra".

Except that the price for the KUPP fare is often less than the standard Y fare.

Using my SEA-DFW example, the KUPP7MZ fare costs US$484, KUPPMZ is US$494, YUPMZ is US$964. Compare to H26Z for US$714, Y26 for $864, or Y for US$1523. The cheapest first class fare is F26 for US$1164, with full fare F at US$1949. So the passenger is not being asked to pay more than the going rate for a fully flexible coach ticket price. The gotcha is the extremely limited availability for P class (where the KUP* fares book into) and somewhat limited A class (where the YUP* fares book into).

 

[Dave Noble]

If I re-read this correctly are you paying a First class PRICE but getting an economy ticket that has an almost guaranteed free upgrade to First?

Kind of. The KUP fares are cheaper than the F fares but are an economy fare ( hence the economy fare basis ) with which they will book into P or A inventory which provides 1st class travel

Taking DFW-STL for example, the fares are

KUPP is $139
YUP7LVMZ is $229
F26 is $869
F is $1216

The KUPP is not the most expensive economy fare and there are higher fares in K and Y which do not provide the upgrade

Dave

 

[simongr]

OK - so the fare is lower - which makes the bean counter in me a little calmer. Its an interesting one from a compliance perspective for me as you intentionally buying a "misleading" ticket description with the intent of avoiding a policy - a slippery slope for me from there to Enron

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

When I was looking into my recently taken YUP it did make interesting reading seeing the various fares and rules.

Odd world - airline economics. Somehow a flexible, refundable YUP fare that by careful selection of flights could guarantee first at time of booking (actually didn't need to be that careful since I had literally dozens of flight options even for the same destination and date of travel - thanks to people in US generally not buying F, after all why bother when you can upgrade for free or next to nothing). But I digress, this fare was less than a flexible economy fare without the upgrade to first, and also less than restrictive first class fare, and surprisingly, also less than some restrictive economy fares without the upgrade to first.

 

[Skyring]

To me (as an auditor) that is basically the airline facilitating a fraud by the passenger. Its like a hotel saying "If you agree to pay an extra $50 a night we will call it a standard room but upgrade you to a suite" - its not much different to saying "If you pay an extra $100 ovr the price we can split the extra".

The whole basis of airmile reward programs is dodgy. The company pays for the travel, but the passenger gets the rewards in free flights and increased service. There is no requirement that points earnt on business travel be spent on business travel. Of course, this is moot if you are paying for your own travel, and some companies impose internal restrictions on usage of points earnt at company expense, but basically it's all a massive bribe for people to spend their employer's money.

From the airline's point of view xUP fares are a good deal if they sell seats that would otherwise remain empty.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

From AA's and UA's point of view, they are a good deal. Few pax will pay for F anyway, and so better to get some extra revenue from xUPs (extra relative to the cheapest economy fares) than have pax pay the cheapest fare and upgrade anyway due to status or whatever.

From pax point of view they are getting first confirmed at time of booking, whereas other methods of upgrading (vouchers, op-ups, etc) may not be confirmable as early.

 

[Soundguy]

If I re-read this correctly are you paying a First class PRICE but getting an economy ticket that has an almost guaranteed free upgrade to First?

To me (as an auditor) that is basically the airline facilitating a fraud by the passenger. Its like a hotel saying "If you agree to pay an extra $50 a night we will call it a standard room but upgrade you to a suite" - its not much different to saying "If you pay an extra $100 ovr the price we can split the extra".

I agree it is probably a little dodgey, but you do pay a premium price to get the YUP/KUP fares, just not as much as what a full First Class fare might normally cost.

If you have used many US airlines you would realise that AA actually isn't that much of an airline and there are others there with better service, better aircraft and at the same time cheaper prices. But AA has some nice lounges and a good rewards system, so it seems the discounted First Class fares are probably an attempt (with these factors) to hang onto a decent part of the business travel market.

 

[moa999]

Any tips on how to work out possible routings without increasing the cost.

eg.
For random mid-May
ORD-HNL one way $1386 - 180 SCs
by trial an error I can get
ORD-STL-MIA-LAX-HNL one way $1945 - 420 SCs
but this is very random and wondering if any guides on how to get most efficient routings

Purely using aa.com multicity via 50 schedule

 

[serfty]

I can see 330SC's for USD1399. The standard cheap YUP on that route appears to be USD1367 & USD32 in +++.

For some tips look here:

• http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...-advantage/good-sc-earning-value-ex-8840.html
  
  Some slight changes to that thread; select "Price & Schedule", then use the "View All Results" option down the bottom.
  
  Look for multi sector "Instant Upgrade" fares that have no "Economy" Warnings (keeping an eye on the price).
  .
• Find the Lowest Airfare Prices, Discount Airline Tickets & Cheap Flights on FareCompare.com

Note the cheap HNL fares went around November last year.

 

[JohnK]

eg.
For random mid-May
ORD-HNL one way $1386 - 180 SCs
by trial an error I can get
ORD-STL-MIA-LAX-HNL one way $1945 - 420 SCs
but this is very random and wondering if any guides on how to get most efficient routings

Are you after SCs or to get to HNL?

If after SCs then try ORD-TPA return or ORD-DEN return which can earn between 360 SCs - 450 SCs each. Obviously the SCs earned will depend on the day of the week, available flights and the routing you choose. The cost for either when I last looked a couple of weeks ago is ~$1100.

 

[MelUser]

If I book J travel on Qantas or Finnair and it involves US domestic travel, this will (if the TA has done his/her job properly) put me into First Class on AA (codeshare).

Will such a QF or AY flight operated by AA earn me First Class Status credits and QFF points or will it be at business level? Does it make any difference whether it is ticketed as QF or AY?

thanks,

 

[NM]

If I book J travel on Qantas or Finnair and it involves US domestic travel, this will (if the TA has done his/her job properly) put me into First Class on AA (codeshare).

Will such a QF or AY flight operated by AA earn me First Class Status credits and QFF points or will it be at business level? Does it make any difference whether it is ticketed as QF or AY?

thanks,

If its a paid ticket and the fare rules state that 2-class AA domestic services book into A, then you will get First Class SC and points in the QF FF program.

However, not all fares will book into A class. For example, a QF FF redemption for business class award will book into economy on AA 2-class domestics.

Also note that some QF codeshares operated by AA do show availability of J and D class, so would book into those classes and pay business class SC and points. So avoid using QF codeshares on AA domestic flights.

 

[MelUser]

I have checked reservation - it is a code share on AA. It says Business (D) however we have seats 2A and B which is front of first class section.

Will this credit to first or business on QFF?

thanks,

 

[serfty]

Business Class!

e.g. from LAX to DFW you would earn 80 SC's if booked on QF Flight number and 120 SC's on the AA flight number -same seat.

 

[NM]

I have checked reservation - it is a code share on AA. It says Business (D) however we have seats 2A and B which is front of first class section.

Will this credit to first or business on QFF?

thanks,

Yes, you will be sat in the First Class cabin and will earn Business Class SCs and points.