EK A380 loses an engine out of Sydney on climb

[browski]

A valid concern already expressed by those with aviation experience who have looked at the Melbourne incident, amongst others.

Gee this type of post is tiresome.

Certainly not a valid concern.
Cetainly not expressed by anybody with aviation experience; for example, a pilot or an aviation engineer.
The Melbourne incident precluded a change of procedure which has been adopted by every A380 user,

 

[simongr]

Gee this type of post is tiresome.

Certainly not a valid concern.
Cetainly not expressed by anybody with aviation experience; for example, a pilot or an aviation engineer.
The Melbourne incident precluded a change of procedure which has been adopted by every A380 user,

Preceded rather than precluded? Or did you mean led to a change in procedure?

 

[nlagalle]

Gee this type of post is tiresome.

Certainly not a valid concern.
Cetainly not expressed by anybody with aviation experience; for example, a pilot or an aviation engineer.
The Melbourne incident precluded a change of procedure which has been adopted by every A380 user,

But wasn't the MEL incident an A340?

 

[Sprucegoose]

Compressor stall vs uncontained component failure, and on climb is where these things often happen when the engine is working hard.

most hydraulic and other other functions probably not degraded with EK one suspects

 

[greenfish]

Gee this type of post is tiresome.

Certainly not a valid concern.
Cetainly not expressed by anybody with aviation experience; for example, a pilot or an aviation engineer.
The Melbourne incident precluded a change of procedure which has been adopted by every A380 user,

I thought the Melbourne incident was a tail strike in an A340? And it was extremely serious from memory.

 

[markis10]

Gee this type of post is tiresome.

Certainly not a valid concern.
Cetainly not expressed by anybody with aviation experience; for example, a pilot or an aviation engineer.
The Melbourne incident precluded a change of procedure which has been adopted by every A380 user,

Really, I am a pilot amongst other things (not to mention ex ATC, SARmaster rated and experienced SAR/HEMS aircrew) and EK is on my no fly list!

While things were changed, even in the business world fast growth normally ends in failure, but normally the business is not at 38000 feet or heavily reliant on tried and true CRM procedures. BTW, its got nothing to do with the A380 so I am not sure what your reference is to other A380 users seeing as it was an A340, and of course it was not the first EK A340 to need luck getting into the air, EK764 at JNB had that "honour". Thankfully there are some more Australian trained pilots flying for EK who generally have excellent world class CRM habits, but mixed background coughpits are a big issue:

. Some native English speakers at the Middle Eastern airline said that it requires greater effort and concentration to ensure no confusion exists and that the time spent ensuring understanding can be at the expense of aircraft monitoring.

Thats from a paper presented by an EK captain based on research done with the University of Texas http://homepage.psy.utexas.edu/homepage/group/helmreichlab/publications/238.rtf

The same could be said of a tie up with a Chinese airline as well as the research shows, so its a valid concern for many airlines, and for the informed traveler, Air France and Silk Air being two famous examples of CRM gone wrong or local custom/beliefs affecting the chain of command/communication resulting in a deadly outcome for all concerned.

The latest incident wont change my view either way, while the runway incursion at Sydney in January did, as did the EK773 that took off from an unlit runway in MEL November last year (the SQ 744 in TPE did the same thing , as did the Comair RJ, both resulting in fatalities, but thats my ATC experience talking )!

 

[Awesom Andy]

Re: Ask The Pilot

And I see that the media is at it again, this time about an Emirates A380 which had an engine "explosion"...

Looks like the alliance means Qantas has dragged Emirates into the media bash list...

 

[NM]

I don't think anyone is suggesting this particular EK A380 engine failure has any links to flight crew errors or even maintenance issues making the airline unsafe. There is no evidence or knowledge of the root cause at this time that could possibly point to any such conclusions.

However, there are many people who have looked into previous incidents and drawn their personal conclusion that they were likely the result of systemic issues, crew errors/oversights, CRM issues, or human failures etc. Some official reports also make these conclusions. I have read such conclusions from uninformed, untrained "spectators" as well as from highly respected aviation professionals.

But as noted, from the information available to date, this incident appears to have been professionally managed by the tech crew and the only "complaints" I have seen are regarding announcements from the cabin crew being only in English, which is not something I rate as a serious safety breach, unless associated with preparing for an emergency landing or similar event which this does not appear to have been.

 

[mannej]

I guess having 4 engine incidents over the EK fleets over the last month or so, people will start asking a few questions...

 

[mjt57]

Re: Ask The Pilot

In lay terms it may look like an explosion but I think it's not that simple aviation wise.

To me an explosion would be where bits and pieces come out of the engine, both axially and laterally. Watching a stream if ignited fuel shooting out the exhaust is hardly that.


But, if people want to call it that, who am I to argue...

 

[harvyk]

Re: Ask The Pilot

To me an explosion would be where bits and pieces come out of the engine, both axially and laterally. Watching a stream if ignited fuel shooting out the exhaust is hardly that.
But, if people want to call it that, who am I to argue...

Whilst going a little OT, I agree, I strongly suspect that all the PAX was seeing was fuel effectively doing a "dump and burn" intentionally or otherwise. However I somewhat suspect that any official investigation is going to be a bit more authoritative than speculation from someone sitting in 57E.

Back on topic, JB the websites are stating the FA's where looking out the window (I'll ignore the part about "panicking"), I take it that they would be relaying information back to the coughpit? If so what sort of information would it be, eg are they trained to identify possible faults visually or would their reports simply be "I see fire from the nacelles" in similar detail to what a pax could.

 

[markis10]

Re: Ask The Pilot

Whilst going a little OT, I agree, I strongly suspect that all the PAX was seeing was fuel effectively doing a "dump and burn" intentionally or otherwise..

I would suggest a compressor stall is the likely culprit:

a compressor stall occurs when the pressure of air entering the engine drops below the pressure in the compressor or air within the compressor drops momentarily as a result of stalling air (disruption in air pressure). When this happens the compressed air expands and travels toward the area of less pressure (toward the front and out the back). This happens quite fast and can be explosive. In fact, many people who are lucky enough to be on a plane when a compressor stall occurs may first believe a bomb went off.

What is a compressor stall and surge in a jet engine

I am not sure lucky is an appropriate word in the context of the quote!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQNUrYoFM2E

 

[harvyk]

Re: Ask The Pilot

I would suggest a compressor stall is the likely culprit:

What is a compressor stall and surge in a jet engine

I am not sure lucky is an appropriate word in the context of the quote!

P&W-F100-220C Engine Stall - YouTube

"Dump and burn" was probably not quite the right choice of words, and yes compressor stall could be the culprit. Of course 51E (or where ever the pax is sitting) is still probably not the authoritative source newspapers should be using.

 

[VHOEJ]

I guess having 4 engine incidents over the EK fleets over the last month or so, people will start asking a few questions...

Yeah but this is the first one that got noticed by the Australian media.

Sounds like a straight forward failure - but a replacement engine will need to be brought in.

But it sounds like the crew handled it quite poorly, (forget the announcements in Arabic part). If the reports are the FA's didn't seem to handle it well, that is not a good sign and should be the bigger part of the story

 

[Must...Fly!]

Emirates flight attendants responded by moving straight to the windows that faced out to the engine.

They observed the damaged and asked the passengers what they had seen.

Mr Fothergill's wife, Dr Amal Aburawi, questioned how the Emirates staff reacted and said, "The staff panicked more than the passengers.''

She said: "Everyone was running left and right (with) no one knowing what's happened.''

"I was in the same incident in 1988 when I was travelling on Alitalia, (so) it was (a) flash back to what happened (there). It was exactly the same (but) the way it was being handled on Alitalia was so organised and calmer than what's happened tonight.''

Ok it might be one persons opinion and it might be wrong, but that is highly concerning and one of the key reasons I prefer not to fly EK.