Emirates hikes up carrier charges on reward seats

[Albert Hoffman]

Isn't there airlines in oneworld where the fees are quite low when booking with qantas ponts? from memory Cathay and JAL.

 

[SYD]

Isn't there airlines in oneworld where the fees are quite low when booking with qantas ponts? from memory Cathay and JAL.

and AA, AY,…

@Mattg did an article recently.

The Qantas Classic Rewards With No Taxes or Charges

When redeeming Qantas Frequent Flyer points to book reward flights, you'll always need to pay taxes and charges in addition to the points.

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

Plus this work around for rusted on EK reward flyers.

Book Emirates Rewards without Fuel Surcharges via Aeroplan

Air Canada Aeroplan members can now redeem their points online for reward flights on Emirates, without fuel or carrier surcharges!

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

 

[muppet]

That is crazy. So for one person it would be 209,000 points and $2,600~ AUD in taxes return.

Or just buy a Cathay ticket for 0 points and $3,300 return.

 

[Gold Member]

I reckon even AJ would be gobsmacked at those carrier charges. I wouldn’t put it past him and his “Loyalty” team to try and bridge the gap though.

 

[levelnine]

While I'm not surprised that the airline has devalued its award seats, I have been shocked at how quickly and extensively Emirates has devalued over the past 12 months. They must think there will still be ample demand for them. Looking at the Qantas points collectors group on Facebook, that seems to be the case — plenty of points neophytes seem willing to pay those surcharges for the Instagram shot of them sipping champagne in a suite.

 

[jase05]

While I'm not surprised that the airline has devalued its award seats, I have been shocked at how quickly and extensively Emirates has devalued over the past 12 months. They must think there will still be ample demand for them. Looking at the Qantas points collectors group on Facebook, that seems to be the case — plenty of points neophytes seem willing to pay those surcharges for the Instagram shot of them sipping champagne in a suite.

But there are many people sitting on millions of points so if you are a points collector via one of the various different means then they are more than happy to pay those exorbitant carrier charges. If points are worth little to you then you are still grabbing EK J or F for $2-3k where a revenue fare is probably $10k plus

 

[Albert Hoffman]

Out of interest do these carrier charges apply when one books a oneworld rtw ticket? obv emirates is excluded.

 

[jase05]

Out of interest do these carrier charges apply when one books a oneworld rtw ticket? obv emirates is excluded.

Yes, if you read through the relevant thread there is plenty of data on which airlines to avoid when building a OWA

 

[levelnine]

But there are many people sitting on millions of points so if you are a points collector via one of the various different means then they are more than happy to pay those exorbitant carrier charges. If points are worth little to you then you are still grabbing EK J or F for $2-3k where a revenue fare is probably $10k plus

Exactly, a points neophyte. If you value your points at close to 0, you're clearly a newbie at the game because there are almost no completely free modes of acquiring millions of points.

Eg if you acquire your millions of points by shopping at Woolworths, you're foregoing the cashback option which means you are buying them at 1c per point. So the 341K points you need to fly one person to DXB and back in first class actually cost you $3410 to acquire. Add on $2300 in taxes and you're paying $5.5K for the ticket. Yes it is less than the sticker price, but that's actually one expensive seat! And that doesn't even factor in the opportunity cost of better uses of both acquiring and spending points.

 

[jase05]

Exactly, a points neophyte. If you value your points at close to 0, you're clearly a newbie at the game because there are almost no completely free modes of acquiring millions of points.

Eg if you acquire your millions of points by shopping at Woolworths, you're foregoing the cashback option which means you are buying them at 1c per point. So the 341K points you need to fly one person to DXB and back in first class actually cost you $3410 to acquire. Add on $2300 in taxes and you're paying $5.5K for the ticket. Yes it is less than the sticker price, but that's actually one expensive seat! And that doesn't even factor in the opportunity cost of better uses of both acquiring and spending points.

There are plenty of people that would earn decent amounts through credit card churn or spend. Businesses for example that are putting every thing on the card and even paying all their tax bills via card.
With the lack of international travel over the last few years combined with what seems reduced award availability there are probably more people sitting on a stash of points. These people might be happy to blow those points on EK

 

[levelnine]

There are plenty of people that would earn decent amounts through credit card churn or spend. Businesses for example that are putting every thing on the card and even paying all their tax bills via card.

All of which cost money to acquire in most circumstances (and often more than 1c per point!), further buttressing my point.

Overall, I think it is good Emirates does this. It allows the neophytes to blow their points for Instagram-friendly, but ultimately poor value redemptions, easing pressure on the good value redemptions that still exist.

 

[jetset]

I know I am a little late to the party but I am shocked. Availability has been so terrible lately that I only just noticed these ridiculous surcharges. Who the hell is going to pay ~$3600 in taxes and a quarter million points for a return business class fare between Australia and Europe? You'd be better off paying $6-7k cash from a cheaper airline with the dates you want and you'll even receive points/status.

Emirates seems to have completely destroyed their frequent flyer redemption program. This represents a serious devaluation and makes me wonder why they even bother.

 

[Mattg]

I know I am a little late to the party but I am shocked. Availability has been so terrible lately that I only just noticed these ridiculous surcharges. Who the hell is going to pay ~$3600 in taxes and a quarter million points for a return business class fare between Australia and Europe? You'd be better off paying $6-7k cash from a cheaper airline with the dates you want and you'll even receive points/status.

Emirates seems to have completely destroyed their frequent flyer redemption program. This represents a serious devaluation and makes me wonder why they even bother.

The impression I get is that they don't actually want people redeeming their miles for J or F. Considering the cabins are often full anyway (from people buying tickets), you can see why they would feel that way.

The part I believe Emirates is missing is that without compelling redemption options, people will stop collecting Skywards miles and engaging with the loyalty program - which is probably worse for the airline in the long run.

 

[muppet]

The impression I get is that they don't actually want people redeeming their miles for J or F. Considering the cabins are often full anyway (from people buying tickets), you can see why they would feel that way.

The part I believe Emirates is missing is that without compelling redemption options, people will stop collecting Skywards miles and engaging with the loyalty program - which is probably worse for the airline in the long run.

Yep agreed. Something I think Qantas is actually managing quite well at the moment - not a knee-jerk reaction to increase redemption rates or taxes when times are good, knowing that soon enough QFF will once again be the only part of the business making money.

Although, I suspect Skywards isn’t a big deal in terms of EK profit compared to QF.

 

[HSB44]

Australia-Europe is profitable for them though, surely?

Etihad is ramping up again. Qatar isn't going away.

They should be careful

 

[SOPOOR]

I know I am a little late to the party but I am shocked. Availability has been so terrible lately that I only just noticed these ridiculous surcharges. Who the hell is going to pay ~$3600 in taxes and a quarter million points for a return business class fare between Australia and Europe? You'd be better off paying $6-7k cash from a cheaper airline with the dates you want and you'll even receive points/status.

Emirates seems to have completely destroyed their frequent flyer redemption program. This represents a serious devaluation and makes me wonder why they even bother.

I was carrying on and ranting and raving for about the past 6 months or so, with your exact same dilemma,
I even tried getting partner airlines flights without success, I didnt get much response/sympathy here, so I concluded that it was either common knowledge or I was missing an alternative method to not get ripped off on fees/surcharges

however, in my case, my miles were expiring since covid, so I ended up just biting the bullet, and booking a ONE WAY to Europe in F whilst paying $2200 in fees, i could have used almost the same points to make it J-Return but, the fees would have been $3800 for me

Definitely be the first and last time I use the emirates rewards program

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yep agreed. Something I think Qantas is actually managing quite well at the moment - not a knee-jerk reaction to increase redemption rates or taxes when times are good, knowing that soon enough QFF will once again be the only part of the business making money.

Although, I suspect Skywards isn’t a big deal in terms of EK profit compared to QF.

But in a sense they have? Fares are sky-high, but the points we get under ‘simpler and fairer’ remain the same. So we’re paying double for the same points. Equals 100% devaluation? (if only for the time being.)

 

[CaptJCool]

But in a sense they have? Fares are sky-high, but the points we get under ‘simpler and fairer’ remain the same. So we’re paying double for the same points. Equals 100% devaluation? (if only for the time being.)

yes, I can see how that's a devaluation on the EARN rate. Spend more, earn less....

and then there's the BURN rate where rewards become in effect "points and pay" so while you could keep EARNing points on credit card churn or wine, there comes a time when you wish to redeem them for the most optimal reward choice. this was seriously affected in the last big change-up where it became more points and less cash (so at the slow EARN rate you were spending another $25,000 to save $600 - that itself meant a far bigger spend by you - okay okay I know you could buy a dozen good reds until 30 June 2023 to pocket 30,000 points for $696 plus at least $7 delivery Buy Ready to Fly Red Dozen | Qantas Wine so you can spend $696 to save $600 and receive 12 bottles of pricey red

the big issue is the hen's teeth supply of rewards tics opened upto a larger range of airlines and THEIR flyer programs (millions of extra members vying for the same small set of rewards) which kind of defeats the purpose of the QFF program's aspirations for those on AFF.

 

[HSB44]

Similar to the way the Chinese Government seeks a 'reset' in relations when there is a new government in Canberra, I wonder if Qatar is trying to get in the new Qantas CEOs ear to prise them away from EK...

 

[am0985]

The carrier charges are terrible but I'll maintain it's still a good use of points to fly EK F.

It is an experience in of itself - as opposed to just flying in comfort - and particularly if you manage to get a seat on the new 777 F (decent availability on some routes) then it can be pretty special.

Europe to Australia one way is 227,500 QFF points so 2.5 CC churns. Maybe $700 worth of annual fees in addition to the $2000ish carrier charge. Would imagine its harder to get the necessary Skywards points though, and unless you're in the US getting those points might not work out so cheaply elsewhere.

Not worth it at all for J though, not even in A380.