Europcar caught scamming customer at Sydney Airport

[Rich]

A few years ago I had Avis (who I almost always use) in ADL call as I was boarding (or maybe it was when I arrived in MEL) to say that there was a chip on the windscreen. We hadn't even driven 50km that weekend and I told them there was no way that happened when I was driving. I never heard from them again.

 

[Nailz]

You all should enjoy this Youtube relevant to this!

 

[Beano]

I've been ripped off by Europcar. Unfortunately I had no evidence. I now carefully inspect and video every hire car. It's a pain, but necessary.

I think that is recommended, unless you opted for full insurance or have some travel insurance. I have insurance so when I arrive at an airport at 10 pm with the car in a poorly lit area, I'm not inclined to look too closely except for really gross damage. Even then a trek back to the desk, which may be some distance away, is not ideal. Having said that the hire company may accept your own, time and date stamped photos.

 

[Mattg]

Serious question: is there anything actually stopping car rental companies from trying to scam customers? Other than perhaps reputational damage?

Every time they try to overcharge someone for damage they didn’t cause, or whatever else it might be, the savvy customers with evidence they are not at fault and the time to challenge it will dispute the extra charges, and most likely get them waived. Some customers will not and just have to cop the extra charges.

Either way, the car rental company never seems to get into any trouble. Even though they’ve effectively deceived and stolen from their customers.

Do laws need to change so that there are actually real penalties for attempting to give false charges to customers in the first place?

 

[anat0l]

Serious question: is there anything actually stopping car rental companies from trying to scam customers? Other than perhaps reputational damage?

Every time they try to overcharge someone for damage they didn’t cause, or whatever else it might be, the savvy customers with evidence they are not at fault and the time to challenge it will dispute the extra charges, and most likely get them waived. Some customers will not and just have to cop the extra charges.

Either way, the car rental company never seems to get into any trouble. Even though they’ve effectively deceived and stolen from their customers.

Do laws need to change so that there are actually real penalties for attempting to give false charges to customers in the first place?

There must be some sort of penalty for unconscionable conduct, like charging customers for damage that doesn't exist.

The problem with our system is that it requires someone to raise a complaint first. Then, if the company does not do anything to help, you bring them to court. Then there's the whole process involved within that. Yes, it's mostly a waste of your time, so someone has to evaluate whether being made whole is worth that effort: keep in mind that many lower courts will only make you whole for the actual damage to you, e.g. refunding a payment you shouldn't have made, or erasing a debt you shouldn't have to pay - you aren't entitled to punitive damages and compensation must be fully proven in and of itself.

Just like most things in life, getting away with doing something illegal is effectively the same as if that act were legal itself (e.g. speeding and not getting caught by a camera).

But it's not entirely escapable: Hertz did have to pay out a significant settlement in the US after many false cases of accusing customers of stealing their cars. Yes, probably took ages and the lawyers took a good cut of the settlement, but that's no longer about how unethical car hire companies can be, that's just our legal system being a horse's behind.

 

[markis10]

There must be some sort of penalty for unconscionable conduct, like charging customers for damage that doesn't exist.

Of course there is, as Europcar found out a few years ago:

Court finds Europcar's standard rental terms unfair

And Hertz previously

Hertz undertakes to refund consumers and improve damage assessment and charging practices

The Australian Competition and Consumer Commission has accepted a court enforceable undertaking from Hertz Australia Pty Ltd (Hertz) following an ACCC investigation into Hertz’s vehicle damage charging processes.

www.accc.gov.au

More recently the penalty has gotten bigger:

Rental vehicle company Smart faces massive fine for consumer law breach

Business allegedly made false or misleading representations in relation to insurance

www.insurancebusinessmag.com

 

[Beano]

On business I use the full insurance provided by the hire company so never hear if there is any damage. Hertz also seems to have given up on kerbed alloys. On personal travel I take out personal travel insurance which covers me for damage to hire cars and it works. I was once pinged for damage to the inside of a tyre! Who checks there? Was that a scam?

 

[Mattg]

I also typically take out the full insurance with no excess when renting a car. This is also to insure myself against dodgy rental companies - not just in case I get in an accident!

That said, there are so many horror stories and potential traps when it comes to hire cars that I mostly just avoid using them where possible.

 

[p--and--t]

Interesting discussion.

When I was in the workforce the employer had a contract whereby the rental company included insurance always. This was regardless if the rental was work related or private use.

Since leaving the workforce I can only recall once taking out optional insurance.

Touch wood over a couple decades have not had a query from the rental companies after returning the car.

I used to take out an annual.travel insurance policy which I figured would cover me if push came to shove. But I haven't bought travel insurance for a decade and rely on my credit card policy (which covers some aspects.of car rental).

I notice the last 2-3 rentals the counter assistant said any damage less than a 20c piece or anything that looks like wear and tear, we no longer care.

Will have to get my act together for later in the year when I hit an age where car companies don't want to rent to me and I fear the credit card insurance cuts out.

 

[Muppet501st]

Years ago in CNS, returned a Hertz vehicle. Received receipt all ok, 2 hours later, saying chip in windscreen. Now this chip had a round clear sticker already over it to stop it running anymore. stupid me assumed as it was on there when i picked up car - it wouldve already been recorded.
Lesson learned, walk around and video only .

 

[Beano]

I also typically take out the full insurance with no excess when renting a car. This is also to insure myself against dodgy rental companies - not just in case I get in an accident!

That said, there are so many horror stories and potential traps when it comes to hire cars that I mostly just avoid using them where possible.

I need a car on business when I visit 5 to 8 sites in a day. A chauffeur would be too expensive and taxi's/Uber never come on time.

Interesting discussion.

When I was in the workforce the employer had a contract whereby the rental company included insurance always. This was regardless if the rental was work related or private use.

My company includes the insurance on overseas hire but self-insures on domestic hire.

Since leaving the workforce I can only recall once taking out optional insurance.

Touch wood over a couple decades have not had a query from the rental.companies after returning the car.

I used to take out an annual.travel insurance policy which I figured would cover me if push came to shove. But I haven't bought travel insurance for a decade and rely on my credit card policy (which covers some aspects.of car rental.

The CC insurance does not totally give full cover.

I notice the last 2-3 rentals the counter assistant said any damage less than a 20c piece or anything that looks like wear and tear, we no longer care.

Correct. They have a circular 20 mm diameter template. I think they include kerbed alloys in that. BTW, some alloys stick out past the tyre so are more susceptible to damage.

Will have to get my act together for later in the year when I hit an age where car companies don't want to rent to me and I fear the credit card insurance cuts out.

Post automatically merged: Wednesday at 7:18 AM

Years ago in CNS, returned a Hertz vehicle. Received receipt all ok, 2 hours later, saying chip in windscreen. Now this chip had a round clear sticker already over it to stop it running anymore. stupid me assumed as it was on there when i picked up car - it wouldve already been recorded.
Lesson learned, walk around and video only .

A chip on the windscreen is not something you can control. Sureley the hire company has it's own insurance for that?

 

[Beano]

Years ago in CNS, returned a Hertz vehicle. Received receipt all ok, 2 hours later, saying chip in windscreen. Now this chip had a round clear sticker already over it to stop it running anymore. stupid me assumed as it was on there when i picked up car - it wouldve already been recorded.
Lesson learned, walk around and video only .

Getting a receipt on return isn't the end of it. Hire companies can still get back to you afterwards when they wash the vehicle and see new damage.

 

[JohnK]

Getting a receipt on return isn't the end of it. Hire companies can still get back to you afterwards when they wash the vehicle and see new damage.

That's not right either. If I return the car I wait for it to be inspected and given all clear. After that not my problem.

Dropped off car at Europcar Sydney on Sunday. Did a quick check and he got in the car and took off like a formula 1 car. I don't think I've seen anyone take off that fast.

I'm not paying for any damage that has not been seen at inspection and I have both international and domestic travel insurance covering hire car excess. It's the principle.

 

[Beano]

That's not right either. If I return the car I wait for it to be inspected and given all clear. After that not my problem.

Dropped off car at Europcar Sydney on Sunday. Did a quick check and he got in the car and took off like a formula 1 car. I don't think I've seen anyone take off that fast.

I'm not paying for any damage that has not been seen at inspection and I have both international and domestic travel insurance covering hire car excess. It's the principle.

I'd like to think that and mostly that's the case. Has anyone dropped off at SYD INT? There's usually no one there and I'm not going back to the terminal, waiting for an attendant and going back. I must remember to take photos when I leave a car there. It's not the only place where there is no attendant in the car park.

 

[OZDUCK]

I have damaged a hire car twice. Once in Ireland when a tour bus forced me into the shrubs on the side of the extremely narrow "Ring of Kerry" road. I cracked the glass in the left hand side exterior rear mirror. Luckily I had taken out full insurance with the rental company as there are numerous reports of tyre and paint damage on the narrow, rock wall lined Irish roads. I just had to detail what happened when I dropped the car off.

The other instance was in Norway when I scratched the alloys on a Golf. There was an excess on the hire car fee but I had taken out insurance with another 'specialist' insurance provider. When I dropped the car off at Oslo airport I pointed out what I had done to the rental office. The guy there gushed over me reporting the damage rather than trying to hide it. I assumed that I would get the bill for the damage latter. However I was never charged for it and assume that the guy in the yard had 'accidently' failed to complete the claim process.

 

[Beano]

I have damaged a hire car twice. Once in Ireland when a tour bus forced me into the shrubs on the side of the extremely narrow "Ring of Kerry" road. I cracked the glass in the left hand side exterior rear mirror. Luckily I had taken out full insurance with the rental company as there are numerous reports of tyre and paint damage on the narrow, rock wall lined Irish roads. I just had to detail what happened when I dropped the car off.

The other instance was in Norway when I scratched the alloys on a Golf. There was an excess on the hire car fee but I had taken out insurance with another 'specialist' insurance provider. When I dropped the car off at Oslo airport I pointed out what I had done to the rental office. The guy there gushed over me reporting the damage rather than trying to hide it. I assumed that I would get the bill for the damage latter. However I was never charged for it and assume that the guy in the yard had 'accidently' failed to complete the claim process.

Perhaps it was put down to "fair wear and tear". I've hired cars with lots of scratches on the alloys and also done some myself, but never charged.

 

[OZDUCK]

Perhaps it was put down to "fair wear and tear". I've hired cars with lots of scratches on the alloys and also done some myself, but never charged.

They were some nice deep scratches across both nearside wheels - but you could well be right. It was with Hertz if that makes any difference.