Exit Row - Definition of “Willing and Able”

[Bajar]

Took four VA flights this week and was amazed at how loose the definition of “willing and able to assist” was when it came to emergency exit row seating in 13 & 14.

Flight one, an elderly lady who needed assistance for boarding was placed in 13F, next to the window. The old dear needed her walker to get to the gate, and was wheeled in a chair to a lift because she couldn’t do the stairs.

Flight two, I was seated next to a kid no older than 10 in 14A, with his Mum in 14B.

Flight three, two retirees, the gentleman needed assistance getting up the stairs and a walking stick up and down the aisle. His partner needed help raising her handbag up to the overhead locker.

I know folk pay extra to sit there (and I paid to sit there myself in the aisle), but clearly the question being asked “are you willing and able to assist in the event of an emergency” seems to be a box ticking exercise.

If an emergency occurred on any of those flights, I don’t think we could have relied on any of the folk I was seated next to.

Anyone else experience this with VA recently?

 

[justinbrett]

I think VA might get a visit from CASA if they read your post.

https://www.casa.gov.au/passengers-seated-emergency-exit-row-seats

 

[Mattg]

I haven’t personally seen this on VA, but clearly people who meet those descriptions should not be in the exit rows for safety reasons. I’m surprised to read that this was allowed.

 

[Cynicor]

I’ve seen the opposite a couple of times. People moved out due to being dodgy/frail.

 

[Happy Dude]

It's been a while since I've ventured past row 5. I have in the past seen similar to OP on VA before and thought to judgmental self "That pax doesn't look particularly able to assist in an emergency."

 

[jb747]

One of the things that always bugged me about people in these seats is that so many of them actually seem to take very little notice of the briefing, and to my mind would be just about useless. Of course that could just be me.

I'm reminded of an accident in the USA, where there was some discussion re a young bloke of about 15 being in one of those seats prior to flight. I gather that someone wanted his seat. In any event, the aircraft was involved in a major accident, and the 15 year old was singled out as being the best performer of all.

 

[DC3]

Sitting at the pointy end should reduce second-guessing of the frailty further back.

 

[Sprucegoose]

I haven’t personally seen this on VA, but clearly people who meet those descriptions should not be in the exit rows for safety reasons. I’m surprised to read that this was allowed.

I haven’t and I agree. It won’t be policy rather overworked crew required to come up with a pax solution.

There is so much inexperience flying these days post covid. It’s not their fault but there is no substitute for experience ie knowing when to say ‘you can’t fly’

 

[MH_fan]

I'm still willing but no longer able, so I don't sit in exit seat rows anymore...

 

[justinbrett]

I know in most of Latin America if you aren’t fluent in Spanish you can’t sit there.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I haven’t and I agree. It won’t be policy rather overworked crew required to come up with a pax solution.

That might be a reason, but it’s not an excuse. The crew’s primary responsibility is safety. They are also the last line of defence after the website notice on exit row seating, check-in staff, and the gate staff.

If crew are indeed busy during boarding, they must notify the CM and let them deal with it.

 

[lovestotravel]

Crew too busy/not caring/just want to get everyone boarding

I'd be reporting this if you were concerned

 

[DC3]

I'm still willing but no longer able, so I don't sit in exit seat rows anymore...

Row 1 or row 2?

 

[anat0l]

Really don't know a single carrier that actually follows these guidelines to a T.

If they were all investigated by CASA then all of them would have black marks on the book that will then subsequently be thrown at them (no doubt by someone whose throw is both willing and able).

It's all a commercial exercise now.

I'm going to harbour a guess that, except for possibly - possibly - the USA, no other competent national/federal air authority actually enforces this rather well. It might just take a major accident to happen before something is paid attention to; then again, we have had incidents of people not leaving their luggage behind during an emergency evacuation, and nothing guidelines or procedures wise has changed one bit. Shows how much anyone (except the pilots and maybe the crew) cares about aircraft safety, especially in an emergency.


I know it has to be asked (just like "did you pack this luggage yourself"), but what otherwise able and competent schlub would not be willing to assist in an emergency?

 

[Bajar]

I’ve seen the opposite a couple of times. People moved out due to being dodgy/frail.

I've been moved out once thanks to my brother. I answered yes at check-in, then he piped up: "No he's not - he froze last time there was an emergency and then he had to change his pants once we landed".

I got a look from the check-in assistant and then got moved back to row 16. That was QF about 10 years ago, though.

Post automatically merged: Oct 28, 2024

I think VA might get a visit from CASA if they read your post.

https://www.casa.gov.au/passengers-seated-emergency-exit-row-seats

Given how recent that is, I'm amazed at what I saw this past week. I've dropped VA an email - let's see what it's like when I head out again next week.

 

[Cynicor]

That's brotherly love!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Really don't know a single carrier that actually follows these guidelines to a T.

If they were all investigated by CASA then all of them would have black marks on the book that will then subsequently be thrown at them (no doubt by someone whose throw is both willing and able).

It's all a commercial exercise now.

I'm going to harbour a guess that, except for possibly - possibly - the USA, no other competent national/federal air authority actually enforces this rather well. It might just take a major accident to happen before something is paid attention to; then again, we have had incidents of people not leaving their luggage behind during an emergency evacuation, and nothing guidelines or procedures wise has changed one bit. Shows how much anyone (except the pilots and maybe the crew) cares about aircraft safety, especially in an emergency.


I know it has to be asked (just like "did you pack this luggage yourself"), but what otherwise able and competent schlub would not be willing to assist in an emergency?

Even the US has some strange quirks.

Exit row pax are identified at the gate and asked ‘are you willing and able to assist’. If they reply ‘yes’, that’s often the end of the matter

I speak from personal experience here where I was sat next to a passenger of size… so large that I could not take my seat beside them.

On going up to the front of the aircraft to explain, the gate agent was called, and confirmed the passenger had answered ‘yes’ and therefore in discrimination grounds they were unable to move them.

So we had a stalemate. The captain was called, and was also unwilling to intervene. We just all stood there until a passenger in first class, overhearing the conversation, said they would swap.

I’m presuming - hoping! - that something like a wheelchair would not even get asked the question. They would just be denied seating in the exit.

 

[MH_fan]

Row 1 or row 2?

Well, on JQ's A320, it's Row 1. Used to sit there most of the time but now I choose to sit in Row 2. I don't sit in any exit rows on other cabins. In widebody J cabins, there is no exit row, so can sit in Row 1 if I want to.

 

[elanshin]

Even the US has some strange quirks.

Exit row pax are identified at the gate and asked ‘are you willing and able to assist’. If they reply ‘yes’, that’s often the end of the matter

I speak from personal experience here where I was sat next to a passenger of size… so large that I could not take my seat beside them.

On going up to the front of the aircraft to explain, the gate agent was called, and confirmed the passenger had answered ‘yes’ and therefore in discrimination grounds they were unable to move them.

So we had a stalemate. The captain was called, and was also unwilling to intervene. We just all stood there until a passenger in first class, overhearing the conversation, said they would swap.

I suspect in a final push comes to shove situation, the airline could say that the oversized PAX is a safety hazard but noone wants to be responsible for getting into that sort of legal fight as it would end up in the courts most likely.

I’m presuming - hoping! - that something like a wheelchair would not even get asked the question. They would just be denied seating in the exit.

I would assume so too but clearly from this thread it seems VA isn't quite doing this. Whether thats company wide indifference/ lack of training or just isolated incidents we won't quite know.

 

[justinbrett]

I have heard the reason Jetstar ask “when was the last time you sat in an exit row?” Is not because they care about the answer, but they can confirm you speak English and gauge your cognitive function.