FAs permitting economy PAX to use PE after takeoff

[concorde71]

Personally I like the open look in a narrow body jet such as the 737.
So I liked the look of the new divider on Virgin. I would not extend the purple part, nor would I add curtains. To me curtains would compromise the clean design. No need for a sign, I think most people know.

Shame the little ..... [female passenger] I had on my flight yesterday didnt know... Wandered its ....... backside down from the bowels of Y as soon as the seatbelt light went out------ plonked it butt in row 1, let its offspring squeel its head off, rub its greasy mits all over the place, then after it wrecked the ambience, that was a quiet clean pure zone, stained the walls, rubbed its dirty fingers all over the place, soiled itself , then it wandered back to the back of the truck for landing. Fair suck of the sav, this shiela came down, the FAs did nothing, even played with the snotty nosed brat, and then made sure it was back in its cage for landing... NOT HAPPY, very ...poor, not even a rope would have kept these animals out. Next time I fly Im gonna buy the cheapest meanest fare I can, and then Park my .... [butt] up in J after TO, and test the reaction... I bet I get the big . ... [heave], because Im not a .... PAX with a loud mouthed obnoxious brat!!!!!
Not to clean and pure there hans, what would you call that?


Oh, and sorry to go off topic, but jeeesuussss christ.

 

[serfty]

Shame the little ...
Oh, and sorry to go off topic, but jeeesuussss christ.

I suggest you contact Virgin Australia with details of this.

It's hardly the type of atmosphere the newer management wish to portray when trying to dislodge HVC from Qantas.

 

[concorde71]

Re: DJs new 737s, pretty impressive.

Will do that Serfty,
Better just word it a bit better than I did on here

 

[firefox]

Re: DJs new 737s, pretty impressive.

concorde71,
although your wording was interesting. I can absoutely attest to this being a massive problem. Something i have raised and continue to raise every time i fly with VA. I've seen a trend that with bad FA they tend to come from Sydney? I ask often, and it's just a proven fact. I fly alot and the other week did 7 flights in one week. 3 of which where bad crew all of which came from SYD.

I was on a flight from Fiji to BNE about 4 weeks ago with the family (up in J/PE) and lady came up the front with two babies, decided the toilets where too small, and decided she would change the kids nappies on the flight in row 2 all nice and smelly! And i had to enjoy the smell. FA did nothing at all, (too busy yapping down the back), came up and goes what is the horrible smell. And proceeded to turn my call light off (been on when the lady started the changing)..!!!!

Unfortunately i've worked out that part of the cause of the pain on VA is purely there flight crew..! Need to get those SYD people trained alot better.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: DJs new 737s, pretty impressive.

I'd like to say I can sympathise......but to be honest, the "massive" problem seems a tad overstated.

I've never yet witnessed anyone jumping up to PE, J or whatever on DJ. In fact until just recently, you'd have had no hope of getting away with it as not even gold got an op-up, the vacant seats stayed vacant.

I'm sorry to hear of your bad experiences with DJ flight crew, but in the last 18 months since converting over, I've had predominently great FAs, actually, the only issue I can remember having was with an aircraft, not the crew!

 

[firefox]

Re: DJs new 737s, pretty impressive.

HI swanning_it,
So the first question i ask is how often do you fly PE? I fly it every time.
I can tell you that the product is very hit and miss. Up the front.

I love Virgin and i am very very Loyal to them. I've seen all too many times people jumping to PE, just ask one of the crew on your next flight.

A large chunk of my flights i am the only PE on board, and mostly everyone around me is an op-up. example, my flight on BSI the other night was 2 PE guests 1A/1C all other 6 seats full with upgrades. Mostly the Flexi guys get the seats first.

If you chat with a FA/CS on board they will tell you of the struggles they've had with the product, including seat allocation, baggage space issues, boarding issues, use of toilet etc.
Hence why the product has had a significant overhaul.

I still love Virgin, and i talk directly with very senior management inside Virgin that are working very very hard to make it happen and get it right. It's got alot better from the early days, but it's certainly still not perfect.

Maybe with the amount of flying i do (average minimum 2-3 sectors a week, sometimes 5-6+) i come across alot more then most.
They are working hard on the problems, and i still will continue to fly with them, but they are not perfect, especially the crew out of SYD sorry but that's just an observation.! I could tell you some very interesting stories of staff on board aircraft that would make you jump ship again..

Prefer not to vent that type of discussion on a forum such as this...

 

[Noob]

Re: DJs new 737s, pretty impressive.

My experiences are very similar to swanning_it I have always found the crew very professional, helpful, friendly, and protective of the front of the aircraft. This sounds like a one off incident that neither the less should not have happened, and I think you should definitely give VA feedback regarding this because it seams quite out of the ordinary for them.

I am starting to think that the red velvet rope, or retractable barrier (like they use at check in) might actually work well. I personally don't think it would look tacky, quite the opposite, I think it would look 'exclusive' and modern.

Because there is not a face on shot of Virgin Australia's new 737BSI cabin yet, here is one of Virgin America with the barrier, which would have a 'quick release' magnet holding it together in the centre in the case of emergencies.

The other option is a curtain, which I think detracts from the whole feel of the cabin, and the flowing Sky Interior design to achieve the same results. And in a aircraft like a 737 you don't want it to feel any more compact.

 

[Saab34]

Re: DJs new 737s, pretty impressive.

True firefox. I will give them another 6 months when they have completed the refits before I come to my conclusion.

My most recent MEL-BNE PE flight I counted a total of 5 people that "attempted" to move up front on a standard 738 PE config. There was a period of 20mins where a lady and her child slept with here child in 1DEF, even a FA went past and didn't say anything before the CS picked it up (yes SYD crew).

 

[markis10]

Re: DJs new 737s, pretty impressive.

Ironic that the discussion has gone from a Gold member being denied access to row 2 to anyone helping themselves to Row 1 etc. Its amazing what some people try on, last year on QF I had to kick out a lady and child in Row 1, seems they got mixed up with row 50!

Now if DJ could only do something about the folks that wont to share their mobile conversations with the lounge, we dont need to know you have an imprezza and are selling the Honda!

 

[serfty]

I'd like to say I can sympathise......but to be honest, the "massive" problem seems a tad overstated.

I've never yet witnessed anyone jumping up to PE, J or whatever on DJ. In fact until just recently, you'd have had no hope of getting away with it as not even gold got an op-up, the vacant seats stayed vacant. ...

My experiences are very similar to swanning_it I have always found the crew very professional, helpful, friendly, and protective of the front of the aircraft. This sounds like a one off incident that neither the less should not have happened, and I think you should definitely give VA feedback regarding this because it seams quite out of the ordinary for them. ...

This cannot be overstated! JB would be livid othat it's happened at all with the new image he is trying to introduce!

For such to happen once these days is bad enough, but we now have two posted reports of similar incidents.

Maybe some of the FA are finding it difficult to come to terms with the news that Virgin Australia is not the egalitarian critter that Virgin Blue was portrayed as.

 

[Justchecking]

The eternal problem with PE is that it's still used for economy in full flight situations. Pax get used to sitting there on cheapo tickets and see no difference between that seat or any other. Since they are also the last seats to be allocated any pax who's a late checkin could score one of these seats regardless of their fare class. The lack of obvious divider and the fact the fwd toilet is a free for all, make it difficult for it to be seen as a premium cabin at all. Unless the airline is willing to forgoe the fare and not sell those seats unless a PE fare is paid, it will never be anything except a very expensive ticket.

 

[jaspon]

I can say that the majority of crew are protective of the area, but it becomes a daily struggle with so many people asking all the time ( or not asking at all), and yes sometimes a few strays get through and set up camp, while crew are in the rear cabin or galley.
There definitely shouldn't be anybody helping themselves to PE seats, while there is a PE paying guest in rows 1 or 2 as crew are told to maintain the integrity of the seats/fare.


Generally if there are NO PE pax onboard and the PE seats in rows 1 & 2 are empty, the CS will usually try and find a platinum or gold velocity member ( or silver if no G/P) and offer them some extra legroom/space in these rows.

99% of the time any campers up front will be told to go back to their assigned seat, but occasionally there are some challenging guests and from a crew perspective sometimes it better to leave them there.

As previously mentioned on the forum, there needs to be a permanent clearer distinction between the two fare classes for pax to understand.

 

[rechoboam]

We had row 2 to Fiji. Full plane, y fare. About twenty times or more the FAs forced people out of row 1 while waiting for toilets etc. I gave them some suggestions for blocking it off (dirty meal trays? Etc). On way back I called them and begged to pay for the front row but they werent selling it.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Re: DJs new 737s, pretty impressive.

HI swanning_it,
So the first question i ask is how often do you fly PE? I fly it every time. (average minimum 2-3 sectors a week, sometimes 5-6+) I could tell you some very interesting stories of staff on board aircraft that would make you jump ship again..

PE for me? Rarely. I don't see the value in the product, curtain or not, but until recently, I was regularly assigned 4C and I don't sit there with my eyes closed. I didn't intend to offend you, just stating my experience that I can't recall ever seeing anyone jump up to PE from Y. I fly about 80 domestic sectors a year (give or take, not quite that busy this year), so I would have thought if this cabin migration was such a "massive" problem, I would have noticed at least one person engaging in it. Mind you, most of my sectors are short haul (OOL-SYD, BNE-ROK, BNE-MKY, BNE-HTI, BNE-PPP etc), so perhaps it's more common on the longer flights.

In any case, I fully support the concept of protecting the value of PE/J seats and to be honest, I don't think a curtain would be "bad"......just not necessary. But that's just my opinion .

As for "jumping ship", don't worry, some of my posts may at times seem a bit "lovey dovey" toward DJ, but that just expresses my contentment with the service.......at the moment. If that contentment changes in any way, I will without doubt re-evaluate my flying loyalties. I'm very impressed with the DJ move away from their attitude of say five years ago, but as I said earlier, I don't see the value in more expensive seats on what (to me) is little more than an airborne bus service. At the moment, I'm carefully monitoring the price differential between DJ and JQ. It's hovering at the upper limits of what I'm prepared to accept right now, so good service or not, I run a business and that includes ensuring the bottom line works for me........price.

 

[VOZZY]

I have to agree hit and miss with this product is the perfect description. I fly about 3 PE sectors a week and at least 1 in 4 maybe 1 in 2 have someone walk straight up to row 1 for a seat. At times the crew even try to times to avoid eye contact with the PE passengers so they don't have to intervene.

There are of course a few occasions where the crew need to move a passenger and the crew normally ask the PE passengers first which is certainly appreciated. (I have never heard a PE passenger object)

Far too often however the crew just don't bother with PE offers. I would estimate 25% of the time the ground crew don't offer priority boarding announcements. (Before the introduction of the purple ropes.)

I have been challenged twice for using priority checkin on a PE ticket (Prior to attaining status) and I have had to convince check in staff that PE guests get a higher baggage allowance.

Often the free to air isn't activated. I have even had a case where I refused the water bottle and they insist on leaving it on an empty seat rather than stowing it. On one occasion when flying on a rogue they offered a digiplayer to the PE pass and then changed their mind (1 min later directly after take off) they claimed there would not be time after all as it was a short leg (Syd-Mel)


The majority of Virgin crew will do anything to mkae a PE guest feel comfortable but I get the impression the are a subset who are waiting for this whole PE Business "experiment" to blow over. (They may be waiting a while.)

Virgin are great they but really need to begin keeping their promises.

Vozzy

 

[firefox]

Vozzy,
Your stories remind me very much of some of my experiences, and it's good to see that regular flier's do quietly talk on this forum. The fact is there is a problem, however.....

I've taken a flight today sitting typing this in a lounge in VA not going to say which one.

A couple of things i have heard rumors on today and now backed up from what i am overhearing in the lounge..

I know that as of yesterday (i believe) there has been some serious sweeping changes occurring to protect the PE/Business Product. I am not at liberty to say what i've been told, but at least VA has definitely listened and is fixing this for their frequent PE guests. Congratulations to JB and the team for finally stepping in and trying to turn it around.

For those not believing about upgrades and switching, i've been sitting near a desk for the last 20 mins, and heard 3 different people come to the desk and beg for upgrades into PE seats on aircraft, only to be told only Premium Economy Guests are allowed in those seats even on full aircraft. So it does sound like there are some changes going on.

I for one will stick with them longer (although i do jump back and forward a little) and it looks like they are working hard to really get the planes/structure/products working really well.

From what i've heard/been told today, i am excited, and an initial congratulations (they have to make it stick) goes out to VA for finally trying to fix this product..

More interesting when i take a peak flight tomorrow and see what happens.

 

[Justchecking]

I hope these changes include not sitting economy pax there at all. It's blatantly obvious to me that 22yr old Dav-o in boardies and singlet who goes...'Premium.....bonus!' on boarding isn't a premium fare paying pax, and not someone I want to be sitting next to. I've paid not to sit next to Dav-o as a matter of fact.

 

[Noob]

I hope these changes include not sitting economy pax there at all. It's blatantly obvious to me that 22yr old Dav-o in boardies and singlet who goes...'Premium.....bonus!' on boarding isn't a premium fare paying pax, and not someone I want to be sitting next to. I've paid not to sit next to Dav-o as a matter of fact.

I agree that the only passengers that should sit in Y+ are those who have paid for Y+, but your comment just seams elitist and arrogant...

 

[concorde71]

Well I dont want that ...... ..... [female PAX], or her smelly filthy kid there either, does that make me arrogant and elitist as well? If so, I accept the titles with pride, and next time I see that kind of cough, I will hunt the ...... [PAX] back down the back where it belongs, making a huge fuss... THAT will be arrogant.

 

[day-heg]

I know that as of yesterday (i believe) there has been some serious sweeping changes occurring to protect the PE/Business Product. I am not at liberty to say what i've been told, but at least VA has definitely listened and is fixing this for their frequent PE guests. Congratulations to JB and the team for finally stepping in and trying to turn it around.

From what i've heard/been told today, i am excited, and an initial congratulations (they have to make it stick) goes out to VA for finally trying to fix this product..

More interesting when i take a peak flight tomorrow and see what happens.

Intriguing. Please do elaborate when your non-disclosure agreement expires...

D-H