Fears of ruined Christmas plans as Jetstar scraps flight

[anat0l]

Jetstar conditions of carriage for one (from a contract point of view)

(c) If, after you pay for your Booking, we make a significant change to the scheduled departure time of your flight or the flight is cancelled (except where this is due to circumstances beyond our control) and:

• this change means you are unable to use your Booking for its intended purpose, and
• we or our Authorised Agents cannot book you on another flight which you are prepared to accept;

we will give you a fare refund. Unless otherwise required by law, we will not be responsible for paying any costs or expenses you may incur as a result of the changed time or cancellation.

I'm surprised Jetstar hasn't invoked the "circumstances beyond our control" card.

I wonder if "book (you) on another flight" implies that it must be the same kind of flight (e.g. if you have a SYD-AKL flight, you must try to find another SYD-AKL flight only), or it allows re-routing (e.g. you could consider SYD-MEL-AKL flight if possible), as well as other carriers (e.g. even if it is for a 'tag' leg).

And again, EU 261 would guarantee that people in some limited circumstances would be entitled to care provisions as a result of the cancellation. There is no such regulation in Australia, so Jetstar would have no compunction by law to do the same. Given, the chances of pax being eligible for such provisions anyway would be remote.......

 

[Aussie_flyer]

I'm surprised Jetstar hasn't invoked the "circumstances beyond our control" card.

Why would they?

They freely admit they have juggled the schedules around. I think it's cough that Jetstar have canceled the flight but I also think you are being overly harsh and critical when it comes to JQ offering refunds in this situation. I have never ever heard a story where Jetstar have refused a refund when a flight is canceled outright.

 

[JohnPhelan]

I have never ever heard a story where Jetstar have refused a refund when a flight is canceled outright.

And you won't, because legally, they are obliged to refund in those circumstances, under Australian consumer law.

 

[awilcockson]

Lots of comments on the FB page saying that they cancelled the flight and then created a new flight on the same day at the same time with a different flight number (and of course much higher fares). Not sure if this is true or not, but if it is ...

 

[markis10]

There is an update saying a new service has been put on for the original day and folks will be moved to that flight.

 

[anat0l]

There is an update saying a new service has been put on for the original day and folks will be moved to that flight.

Oh well, good resolution. Good form, Jetstar.

 

[harvyk]

Certainly good form from JQ by putting a new flight on. That said...

Ignoring the fact that it's happening around Christmas, I can't think of a single time where an airline initiated flight change of 5 days is not going to cause massive problems for someone, so poor original form by JQ...

 

[lovestotravel]

I have said it before. Fly with a LCC at your peril.


It is I, Leclerc !

While this is correct keep in mind that Virgin blue previously and now (Australia) are the masters of changing/cancelling flights

Granted it's only a few hours but still it caused me to move all my travel to Qantas moving forward

I also know of many other people who were sick of the Virgin cancellations and have moved back to Qantas

 

[lovestotravel]

Okay well the flight was only going to have "about 80 passengers"

Seems to me they wanted to quietly cancel the flight due to low loads..

At least the media outcry has caused them to suddenly find an aircraft to put the flight back on basically

Shame on JQ for trying this in the first place

 

[markis10]

I also know of many other people who were sick of the Virgin cancellations and have moved back to Qantas

Some people like to be disappointed I guess, no matter how you slice the stats, be it current month or current year, QF mainline cancellations exceed DJ as a percentage significantly, and if we look at good old Melbourne Sydney, QF take the yearly cake:

[TABLE="width: 596"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Route[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Departing Port[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Arriving Port[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Airline[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Year[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Cancellations[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne-Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]All Airlines[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]2011-12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]738[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne-Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Jetstar[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]2011-12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]91[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne-Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Qantas[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]2011-12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]414[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne-Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Tiger Airways[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]2011-12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]11[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne-Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Virgin Australia[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]2011-12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]222[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Same in reverse:

[TABLE="width: 596"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney-Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]All Airlines[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]2011-12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]719[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney-Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Jetstar[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]2011-12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]81[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney-Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Qantas[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]2011-12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]417[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney-Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Tiger Airways[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]2011-12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]13[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney-Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Sydney[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Melbourne[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]Virgin Australia[/TD]
[TD="align: left"]2011-12[/TD]
[TD="align: right"]208[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[lovestotravel]

Those stats are nice but I am more interested in flights that are cancelled weeks/months in advance due to poor loads/"schedule changes" this has happened to me so many times since when Virgin first started and they still continue to do it. It's a LCC mentality!

I know of 2 people in the past month who had their plans stuffed around with by Virgin as they simply changed the flight time by a few hours with a few weeks notice... instead of arriving to say OOL early in the morning it was changed to a lunch-time arrival. End result was this person had to re-route via SYD, with a short connection time, the bags didn't' make the SYD-OOL flight..........

I would guess that flight timing changes are not reflected in stats nor are flights which are cancelled with weeks/months notice as those figures would be in the thousands for Virgin

EG: Virgin cancelled the 8pm CBR-MEL flight for July/August/Sept/Oct, but was allowing bookings for Nov onwards, but have now since cancelled the flight totally moving forward. Geez I wonder why people didn't book again with Virgin on that flight when they cancelled 120 flights.......

Stats on that alone would be:
2012 Virgin Australia Canberra-Melbourne Cancellations 210
2013 Virgin Australia Canberra-Melbourne Cancellations 365

 

[anat0l]

Some people like to be disappointed I guess, no matter how you slice the stats, be it current month or current year, QF mainline cancellations exceed DJ as a percentage significantly, and if we look at good old Melbourne Sydney, QF take the yearly cake

Is that BITRE rolling 12 months?

 

[yohy?!]

It's a LCC mentality!

I know of 2 people in the past month who had their plans stuffed around with by Virgin as they simply changed the flight time by a few hours with a few weeks notice... instead of arriving to say OOL early in the morning it was changed to a lunch-time arrival. End result was this person had to re-route via SYD, with a short connection time, the bags didn't' make the SYD-OOL flight......

not sure how it is an LCC mentality - it's an all-airlines mentality.

No one is going to operate flights at a loss if they can help if, I doubt in our day jobs we could get away with incurring huge losses for our companies just to keep every single customer to schedule (or happy).

QF did exactly the same thing to me recently on a SYD-HKG sector, the only difference was they did it at T-2 hours!

 

[markis10]

Those stats are nice but I am more interested in flights that are cancelled weeks/months in advance due to poor loads/"schedule changes" this has happened to me so many times since when Virgin first started and they still continue to do it. It's a LCC mentality!

Cancellations less than 7 days are what is counted, given the costs involved for changing them at that stage I think its a reasonable metric, anything further out obviously gives you a better chance to make adjustments/rebooking, unless its Christmas. Virgin cancelling flights seem to be one of the least reported problems here on AFF, maybe most of us are more flexible, I have actually yet to experience one in the past 5 years from Virgin, be it 7 days or 7 months, booking NS when its NW with Qantas I have found 40 % of my flights change or cancel in the 6 months, but with plenty of notice to rectify.

 

[anat0l]

I doubt in our day jobs we could get away with incurring huge losses for our companies just to keep every single customer to schedule (or happy).

Well - it's a choice between being fired because "the customer is always right", or being fired because you cost the company a significant amount. Can't win.

 

[markis10]

Is that BITRE rolling 12 months?

No, financial year.

 

[oz_mark]

Lots of comments on the FB page saying that they cancelled the flight and then created a new flight on the same day at the same time with a different flight number (and of course much higher fares). Not sure if this is true or not, but if it is ...

Probably discovered operating the flight was going to cost them less than the accommodating them any other way.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using AustFreqFly

 

[lovestotravel]

not sure how it is an LCC mentality - it's an all-airlines mentality.

QF did exactly the same thing to me recently on a SYD-HKG sector, the only difference was they did it at T-2 hours!

Virgin have always fiddled and changed flights as a LCC and they still do it

Cancelling a flight at t-2 hours is different and would be to due other reasons than a poor load I would assume

 

[lovestotravel]

Virgin cancelling flights seem to be one of the least reported problems here on AFF, maybe most of us are more flexible,

I have actually yet to experience one in the past 5 years from Virgin, be it 7 days or 7 months, booking NS when its NW with Qantas I have found 40 % of my flights change or cancel in the 6 months, but with plenty of notice to rectify.

So given that 40% of your flights cancel/change on Qantas I would assume there would be far more outrage on here then, since you claim Virgin rarely cancel flights........

I find that 40% figure for changes/cancellations very unlikely as well to be honest...

As for "hinting" that other people are more flexible than me, that's nice too :mrgreen:

But again, I am pretty sure you never say that Virgin does anything wrong..

 

[VHOEJ]

Hope its a simple solution to solve and JQ put them on the other QF flights that leave that day!

QF is unlikely to have seats for them, have you looked at the prices they are charging............can't JQ just put them on other flights (even something as stupid as MEL to CNS to AKL) to get them there.