FF With Over 500 Flights Votes jetstar worst Service award.

[Archphoto]

Okay, say they did go through the whole booking online and were given the warning 3 times (as oppose to quite possibly over the phone where they’d only be given advance warning (other than general knowledge) when they received their itinerary - as we already know they were told over the phone there was no problem not having a return ticket so I think it might be fair to assume the booking was made that way too), then do you not think Jetstar should accept some responsibility, as the carrier, for giving the pax conflicting or wrong information?

I’ll agree, it’s fairly obvious for some countries that you need a return ticket, and how anyone could miss that after getting to be a OneWorld Emerald is beyond logic (no offence to Archphoto), but I’d expect to take the airlines word on matters such as these, and not have them repeatedly tell me the wrong thing. Wouldn’t you?

If you do something wrong, you’re the one to blame, but Jetstar also did something wrong in this case, yet they deserve no blame? How will they learn if they’re not shown to be doing the wrong thing too?

And then of course, the customer service as highlighted above.

It was actually booked by our travel agent, so we were relying on him to make sure all the necessary paperwork was in place.

He did ask if not having a return ticket was ok, and was told it wasn't required (as was I when I called the customer service line myself from the check-in queue.)

What it boils down to is:

1. We didn't have a return ticket and were made aware of that fact
2. We asked repeatedly for assistance in faxing confirmation of required ticket and were denied
3. The J* member's complete "don't give a s***" attitude" that was obviously her take on the phrase "customer service".

In a nutshell, if she'd just told us the fax number when first requested, we could have solved it in 10 minutes, instead it took 45 and a hell of a lot of unnecessary aggravation that made us decide *never* to fly with them again - next time we'll use Virgin.

 

[medhead]

Im not actually villifying Archphoto, I am trying to point out that a contract has been completed and the PAX has not upheld his end of the contract. There is no caveat emptor after the contract has been agreed upon (darn this is hurting my head, going back to law studies a long time ago ) and the contract would be binding - there has been a promise to do something in return for a benefit.

The call centres are just that, call centres, and I would bet my last dollar that J* would be horrified if they were aware of these call centres offering information to PAX which differs from the legal binding agreement that J* and the PAX have entered into, namely the airline ticket.

I didn't think you were villifying anyone. Sorry for giving that impression.

I also agree with you about the contract being formed etc., (not sure I mentioned caveat emptor - but anyway). I agree that Jetstar would be horrified if the call center was giving wrong information. For me jetstar is to blame on that one point, for not making sure the call center does provide correct information (a couple of later posts have cover this). I do think provision of correct information is independant of forming the contract and acknowledging the T&C when purchasing, i.e. that contract stuff goes without saying.

Anyway, sorry again if I implied that you were having a go at anyone.

 

[whereishome]

I've never had a problem with JQ, and I've flown them domestically and internationally 4-5 times a year.

And whilst OP is welcome to his opinion based on his experiences (a fair amount of variety amongst carriers there - it would be interesting to see how you compare service amongst full service carriers), I'm not sure if another "JQ sucks" post was worth wading through the misspellings and random hyperbole.

Finally as a businessman, OP might appreciate a company policy requiring any serious customer issues to be attended by more than one staff member as ensuring that there are witnesses available for the airline's own protection? In my previous life as an account manager, policy required additional bodies at a client meeting if contractual disputes were an issue, not as a stand-over tactic but as a way of ensuring we were protecting the interests of the company (and it's shareholders).

 

[munitalP]

I didn't think you were villifying anyone. Sorry for giving that impression.

I also agree with you about the contract being formed etc., (not sure I mentioned caveat emptor - but anyway). I agree that Jetstar would be horrified if the call center was giving wrong information. For me jetstar is to blame on that one point, for not making sure the call center does provide correct information (a couple of later posts have cover this). I do think provision of correct information is independant of forming the contract and acknowledging the T&C when purchasing, i.e. that contract stuff goes without saying.

Anyway, sorry again if I implied that you were having a go at anyone.

I didn't think you were having a go at me mate

Just a good healthy debate

More of it I say

Cheers

munitalP

 

[Worldtraveller8888]

I flew to HBA over the weekend and experienced the 'intimidation' of the not so charming JQ Flight Attendant at the boarding gate.

All we had done wrong was arrive at the gate 14 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time. Apparently that was unacceptable as we were the last two people to board the flight.

Geesh. If they can't get an aircraft away with all pax on board 14 mins prior to departure they have some serious problems!

WT

 

[serfty]

It's 25 minutes!

...

All we had done wrong was arrive at the gate 14 minutes prior to the scheduled departure time. Apparently that was unacceptable as we were the last two people to board the flight. ...

You were lucky - they would have been quite within their rights to depart without you!

See this from the CoC you agree too when purchasing your tickets: (Conditions of carriage - At The Airport - Travel Information - Jetstar Airways)

Once checked-in, you must be at the boarding gate for flights departing from a domestic terminal at least 25 minutes before the scheduled departure time and for flights departing from an international terminal at least 40 minutes before the scheduled departure time. The aircraft will not be held for you if you arrive late at the boarding gate.

 

[JohnK]

pacta sunt servanda - arrangements are to be kept - the basic spine of the law of contracts.

So how come airlines, and other businesses, try to squirm their way out of law abinding contracts or include fine print that gives them exit points but the customer is forced to keep to the original arrangements?

At face value contracts can be great for businesses....

 

[Oneworldplus2]

I did a BNE-SYD a few weeks ago on Jetstar and was in the BNE J Lounge. The page went through the lounges to board, turned up and they were already boarding, probably 20% already.

 

[munitalP]

So how come airlines, and other businesses, try to squirm their way out of law abinding contracts or include fine print that gives them exit points but the customer is forced to keep to the original arrangements?

At face value contracts can be great for businesses....

Morals have nothing to do with contracts, and what you are suggesting is the moral implications of what these businesses are doing. I agree, we all feel like we have been bent over the barrel at times, but in most cases, contractually we are the ones at fault because we have agreed to something we dont fully understand.

Fine print is only a font size change. It is no excuse not to read it, and more fool us for not reading it or reading it and accepting it. If a contract is reached, offer and accord, it is assumed all parts of the contract have been understood by all parties. A contract cannot be valid if made in duress, however, misunderstanding of the contract does not count as duress.

We cant keep blaming others for our own inadequate understanding of an agreement we meet, if thats for an airfare, a house purchase or anything else you want to put into that slot - we need to take responsibility for our own actions.

munitalP

 

[trippin_the_rift]

...

Also, 500 flights in 25 years hardly makes them qualified to give any awards. I think I've done 500 flights in the past few years...

 

[schomers87]

Im not actually villifying Archphoto, I am trying to point out that a contract has been completed and the PAX has not upheld his end of the contract. There is no caveat emptor after the contract has been agreed upon (darn this is hurting my head, going back to law studies a long time ago ) and the contract would be binding - there has been a promise to do something in return for a benefit.

The call centres are just that, call centres, and I would bet my last dollar that J* would be horrified if they were aware of these call centres offering information to PAX which differs from the legal binding agreement that J* and the PAX have entered into, namely the airline ticket.

This is C&P from my JQ35 itinerary...


So even after the contract is formed, J* have again (3rd time) warned the PAX he may need an onward ticket.

Who's responsibility is it to do this - not Jetstar but the PAX travelling. Not trying to pigeon hole the PAX, but if travelling for work overseas, it sounds like he may have done this previously, and the fact he's a OWE flyer suggests he should have the smarts to know that if you are travelling somewhere you are unfamiliar with, find out what to expect once you get there VISA wise and entry requirements.

I wonder also if J* reaction at the airport was from having 3 OWE doing a Maori Haka at them chanting DYKWIA?

We will never know, but in summary, we do know, the PAX was warned by JQ 3 times, once as a friendly on the screen showing the flight timetable/prices, once when the contract was formed in the terms and conditions, and again, once on the itinerary.

Please, if I have missed the point, tell me where, because for the life of me, I cannot see how this is remotely jetstars fault.

M,

You make some valid arguments, but I don't think that you have fully taken into consideration the representations made by the call centre acting as an agent for the company.
It not only 'unconscionable' to provide such wrong information but contracts are never set in stone until it is completed. Yes there was acceptance- as a bed rock of contract law as you describedl but subsequent representations can indeed be interpreted ( as has been in many HC cases) terms of the contract.

Not trying to be smart, but thought I would add my legal background to the discussion.

S

 

[munitalP]

M,

You make some valid arguments, but I don't think that you have fully taken into consideration the representations made by the call centre acting as an agent for the company.
It not only 'unconscionable' to provide such wrong information but contracts are never set in stone until it is completed. Yes there was acceptance- as a bed rock of contract law as you describedl but subsequent representations can indeed be interpreted ( as has been in many HC cases) terms of the contract.

Not trying to be smart, but thought I would add my legal background to the discussion.

S

All discussion is good! My memory is failing in my 40's when the last law book I purchased for contract law was in 1996! I also have some outdated books on the law of Tort, and Commercial Law... ah the good ol' days, being a carefree student (for the second time)!

I do however on a day to day basis, form contracts with suppliers and sub contractors and have to take into account that all basis are covered, hence my soapbox stance on contracts


munitalP

 

[schomers87]

All discussion is good! My memory is failing in my 40's when the last law book I purchased for contract law was in 1996! I also have some outdated books on the law of Tort, and Commercial Law... ah the good ol' days, being a carefree student (for the second time)!

I do however on a day to day basis, form contracts with suppliers and sub contractors and have to take into account that all basis are covered, hence my soapbox stance on contracts


munitalP

ahhh contracts. memories from 1st year law. i have put that part of the law into the drawer for a long time i hope

 

[Jeffrey O'Neill]

i think I've been relatively lucky with all the flying I've done the last few years.

I'm quite happy with QF, VA, JQ, Air Asia(X), DJ, EK, OS, AA, US.

Probably the only poor experience I've had was with BA during the Icelandic Volcano eruption. Was rather peeved with them as they had planes in BKK and SYD they were not using to get passengers home from BKK.

I've rarely had a delayed flight, and apart from the above BA issue, the only other prob I've had was last year when Mexicana went bankrupt and I had to find another flight close to the travel date and pay thru the nose for the privilege.

To put this in perspective I've prob racked up 150K in flight miles and 50+ flights with various carriers in Australia, Asia, USA, Mexico over the last 5 years.

I pretty much fly LCC and economy, once in PE. My feelings are I'm in a flying bus. As long as i get from A to B relatively on time I'm happy. Y service is not much different between airlines (IMHO) and I'm pretty happy with the way I've been treated by the LCC carriers I've flown - I still fondly remember the humour of one of the Value Air FAs telling passengers to remain seated till the plane comes to a complete stop, as in all my years of flying I have yet to see a passenger arrive at the terminal before the plane (the sheepish looks of passengers already getting bags from over head lockers when the plan has not even turned off the runway was priceless).

Maybe the airline gods have smiled upon me, but I don't have any horror stories to share.

 

[oz_mark]

So how come airlines, and other businesses, try to squirm their way out of law abinding contracts or include fine print that gives them exit points but the customer is forced to keep to the original arrangements?

At face value contracts can be great for businesses....

There are changes afoot as a result of the new consumer laws that came into effect on Jan 1. It may take a bit of time, but I understand that the ACCC has got various airlines conditions of carriage etc in its crosshairs. My understanding is that the ACCC is looking at things such as the timelines refunds are processed on, whether the issuance of a voucher/credit that can only be used on the carrier is appropriate, penalising passengers for checking in late for a flight that is running late and so on.

 

[Opalauctions]

I haven’t flown Tiger and why would I
I value my time as valuable commodity.
They have reputation as cheap budget airline and you pay for what you get these days.

Jetstar has same reputation, (Reputation what’s that?)

I have no time for airline like Js that promotes itself as value airline when in fact it is equal or below Tiger.
In December 2010 I had 3 meetings in Sydney that were delayed because associate was delayed in their Jetstar flight
One on accession my associate booked JS 3 hours before me on gold coast flight and when I arrived for my Virgin flight ,they were still waiting and on way home my virgin plane landed on time and they were 2 hours late ,,They had 5 hours waiting and for next 2 meetings it was joke that they would be late.

But it was not a joke 3 meeting late .
I just have no time for company that places such low value on their customers.
I see Johnny Farnham had trouble on JS and flight was returned. not sure of the problem but I know they have their problem passenger strategy for everyone.
I think Johnny is harnless..lol
I would be happy to see new laws passed for all airlines ,if not they will be herding you on planes in cattle crushes with bag chaff to chew on:mrgreen:

 

[Cocitus23]

Well, Opalauctions, you came back for a second post, when we thought you had disappeared forever. That's good. However, I really wonder if you read and thought about the 34 replies which you had received. Your second post makes no mention of them at all. Perhaps it was difficult for you to accept that no-one saw much to support in your initial rant. You seem to be still ranting on in the same style.
How about trying hard to come up with a positive travel story to share with us. Not many will take you seriously if all you to is ignore replies and continue spitting out venom.

Cocitus23

 

[JohnPhelan]

I see Johnny Farnham had trouble on JS and flight was returned. not sure of the problem but I know they have their problem passenger strategy for everyone.

Actually, it was Jon Stevens .......

 

[Opalauctions]

i only heard the last bit of interview and he sounded like Johnny.
He stated he changed seats and flight attentant said

Do we have a problem?

i laughed when i heard that
Jon is Kiwi so maybe thats a hint, but hes aussie citizen now