Finnair Fiasco from 2016

When in Rome do as the Romans do. Having worked for an airline I believe the EU are completely wrong with their penalties. Did you buy 2 tkts to undercut the through fare? Then try and accuse the airline of not being fair? If you had purchased a through fare with connex on res then you would receive all benefits. The fares are cheaper now as is so , then why did you buy 2 seperate tkts ? The other airline is not responsible if you fail to connect. Perhaps you should sue Airbus. Also Finnair and Qf are one world partners, so no reason to book seperately. Or as said trying to undercut the fare.!!!! Fares are cheaper now than 20 years ago. Do you know the expenses of an airline?
Gate fees, aircraft costs , etc, etc, . It seems everybody wants everything for nothing. Instead of trying to undercut the fares on line ,call the carrier. It is only a means of getting from A-B , but prople believe they are so important. Air travel is not as was. The EU are stupid. Finnair are a brilliant airline considering the size and population if their country.
 
When in Rome do as the Romans do. Having worked for an airline I believe the EU are completely wrong with their penalties. Did you buy 2 tkts to undercut the through fare? Then try and accuse the airline of not being fair? If you had purchased a through fare with connex on res then you would receive all benefits. The fares are cheaper now as is so , then why did you buy 2 seperate tkts ? The other airline is not responsible if you fail to connect. Perhaps you should sue Airbus. Also Finnair and Qf are one world partners, so no reason to book seperately. Or as said trying to undercut the fare.!!!! Fares are cheaper now than 20 years ago. Do you know the expenses of an airline?
Gate fees, aircraft costs , etc, etc, . It seems everybody wants everything for nothing. Instead of trying to undercut the fares on line ,call the carrier. It is only a means of getting from A-B , but prople believe they are so important. Air travel is not as was. The EU are stupid. Finnair are a brilliant airline considering the size and population if their country.

This wasn't about undercutting fares. The OP bought a Finnair business class ticket Bangkok to Europe. In order to use that ticket they had to get to Bangkok, and flew Qantas.
 
This wasn't about undercutting fares. The OP bought a Finnair business class ticket Bangkok to Europe. In order to use that ticket they had to get to Bangkok, and flew Qantas.
Their problem . Nothing is free in life. Just get as much as they can. Then do not blame AY or QF. They should of thought of that. There are code share flights.

She should sue Airbus. In Australia you get nothing. Sick of complaints re excellant Airlines.

I've had to xxl 7 trips, but the way I have been treated has been exceptional. Either all monies back, points where used and have not lost 1 cent. Try being understanding of Csrriers problems. The way you treat people is the way they repond. Kudos to QF JQ and Qatar.
 
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When in Rome do as the Romans do. Having worked for an airline I believe the EU are completely wrong with their penalties. Did you buy 2 tkts to undercut the through fare? Then try and accuse the airline of not being fair? If you had purchased a through fare with connex on res then you would receive all benefits. The fares are cheaper now as is so , then why did you buy 2 seperate tkts ? The other airline is not responsible if you fail to connect. Perhaps you should sue Airbus. Also Finnair and Qf are one world partners, so no reason to book seperately. Or as said trying to undercut the fare.!!!! Fares are cheaper now than 20 years ago. Do you know the expenses of an airline?
Gate fees, aircraft costs , etc, etc, . It seems everybody wants everything for nothing. Instead of trying to undercut the fares on line ,call the carrier. It is only a means of getting from A-B , but prople believe they are so important. Air travel is not as was. The EU are stupid. Finnair are a brilliant airline considering the size and population if their country.
Completely missing the point of this thread - well done!
 
I guess another one who does not understand the costs involved. Also love the EU rules to their advantage.

That is todays ptoblem with the world
 
Have you actually read this thread?
Finnair fan - doesn't need to? 😉

I also love Finnair, flown them frequently, usually with Qantas connections. But I don't believe any one or any corporation is 100% saintly and when they go rogue, their previous goodness gets flushed down the toilet for me.
 
Finnair fan - doesn't need to? 😉

I also love Finnair, flown them frequently, usually with Qantas connections. But I don't believe any one or any corporation is 100% saintly and when they go rogue, their previous goodness gets flushed down the toilet for me.
Agree. I love Finnair too and it disappoints me greatly that they have acted in this manner.
 
Indeed I have always found Finnair to be a very usable airline.

But in this case, I feel otherwise.
When I asked them directly for compensation, a number of times, they declined, a number of times.
Eventually they told me "If you are not satisfied with our decision regarding the compensation, you may contact the Consumer Authority".
Of course I did, and the authority agreed with me, against Finnair. Finnair just ignored it.
Finnair's suggestion above meant (naively for sure) to me that they would respect the arbitration that THEY proposed. So when they did not, litigation seemed reasonable.
For Finnair to say now "We always recommend contacting us directly to ensure open and transparent communication about the merits of the case before commencing legal actions" is disingenuous and an attempt at damage control.
But frankly, I am more annoyed with Ifdelayed, who continue to promote a safe and reliable service, which, to my financial detriment, it clearly is not.
 
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Matt sent us a note regarding this case and a link to this forum posting.

I called the law firm that represented the claimants, but they couldn't forward us the district court's ruling due to it containing some confidential Finnair information.

The district court cannot pull up the case without having the "diaarinumero" (case number).

I would appreciate if one of the claimants could either forward us the PDF from the court or the "diaarinumero" and we can then request the docs directly from them.

As some of you may know, we have covered issues surrounding Finnair and EC 261/2004 compensation cases few times.

They tend not to follow the rulings of the Consumer Ombudsman (Kuluttajariita) in Finland because they are not law binding. They do, however, pay up cases ruled by other similar agencies in Europe.

Thanks!

John

[email protected]
 
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Matt sent us a note regarding this case and a link to this forum posting.

I called the law firm that represented the claimants, but they couldn't forward us the district court's ruling due to it containing some confidential Finnair information.

The district court cannot pull up the case without having the "diaarinumero" (case number).

I would appreciate if one of the claimants could either forward us the PDF from the court or the "diaarinumero" and we can then request the docs directly from them.

As some of you may know, we have covered issues surrounding Finnair and EC 261/2004 compensation cases few times.

They tend not to follow the rulings of the Consumer Ombudsman (Kuluttajariita) in Finland because they are not law binding. They do, however, pay up cases ruled by other similar agencies in Europe.

Thanks!

John

[email protected]
Hi John - I replied to you via email. Looking forwards to discussing with you in more detail, and of course keeping this forum up-to-date with any "happenings".
Just for everyone's interest, the court judgement was restricted, as it contained (supposedly? who am I to know?) confidential information about the new Airbus A350. However, the law firm referred to in John's post (KPF) also sent me a redacted version. It's in Finnish of course. IIRC it (or similar) was already posted by another "victim" on this board.
 
When in Rome do as the Romans do. Having worked for an airline I believe the EU are completely wrong with their penalties. Did you buy 2 tkts to undercut the through fare? Then try and accuse the airline of not being fair? If you had purchased a through fare with connex on res then you would receive all benefits. The fares are cheaper now as is so , then why did you buy 2 seperate tkts ? The other airline is not responsible if you fail to connect. Perhaps you should sue Airbus. Also Finnair and Qf are one world partners, so no reason to book seperately. Or as said trying to undercut the fare.!!!! Fares are cheaper now than 20 years ago. Do you know the expenses of an airline?
Gate fees, aircraft costs , etc, etc, . It seems everybody wants everything for nothing. Instead of trying to undercut the fares on line ,call the carrier. It is only a means of getting from A-B , but prople believe they are so important. Air travel is not as was. The EU are stupid. Finnair are a brilliant airline considering the size and population if their country.
I thought the point of the EU compensation was to deter airlines from treating passengers poorly and having all sorts of foreseeable delays.

There's many incidences where airlines have messed passengers around not because of weather or genuinely unforeseeable reasons but because its not profitable for them to deliver the service they sell and people buy in good faith.
There's many incidences where some airlines have absolutely no regard for the poor passengers. They may miss getting to see their terminally ill father before they die or get to their funeral for example. It's not always missing a few hours of a sunny holiday.

It's my understanding that Finnair made a business decision to take a gamble on new A350 planes and take lots of bookings when these brand new planes had not gone through the usual airline teething and testing problems that come with new products.

Nicnet and I aren't the only passengers who experienced these significant and lengthy delays, there were many others.
Many others, who were not forced to go through the Finnish Court system. Finnair paid their compensation because they could not claim it was "unforeseeable and unavoidable"

In my personal circumstance, we bought a ticket from what we believed to be a reputable airline who would get us from A to B on time (or as close to as possible, notwithstanding unforeseen and unavoidable events).
We bought tickets at short notice because our father had a stroke and we had to get there quickly and had to return to Australia in a short time frame because we had to get back to work, so therefore didn't want to travel economy for the whole journey because its so uncomfortable.

From a cost and comfort perspective, using Finnair business for part of the journey was the best way we could manage that journey. No undercutting anyone.
Later that year, my father in law passed away as a result of this stroke, far quicker than we expected.
My family travelled economy direct, there and back within a week. It's excruciatingly uncomfortable and actually painful. And that's not taking into consideration the emotional part of the whole situation.

To answer your point, no I do not know the costs of running an airline. Finnair do. That's why they set the price and sell a service that should take into consideration all the factors necessary when running a reputable business, including all they can to avoid foreseeable events that mean they can't fulfill their obligation to their customers
In the judgment of the EU courts, (and the Finnish ombudsman for that matter) they didn't, that's why they had to pay compensation to the passengers who did not need to use the Finnish court system.
 
Since the OP may have little to lose :( .... has there been any consideration of sharing this with some of the bigger blogs such as Onemileatatime, ThePointsGuy and Viewfromthewing? Perhaps even getting matt's article syndicated?

The publicity might not get Finnair to change its mind, or stop people flying Finnair... but it might give negative publicity to the claims firms in general, and possibly spur the 'new' ifDelayed to cover the costs out of its own pocket (or risk losing business to other firms).
I doubt it will get Finnair to change their mind. From their point of view the court sided with them in the original denial of compensation and going to one of these 3rd party claim sites has netted the same response. If anything I can see why they would want to hold strong unfortunately.
 
Welcome John!
I doubt it will get Finnair to change their mind. From their point of view the court sided with them in the original denial of compensation and going to one of these 3rd party claim sites has netted the same response. If anything I can see why they would want to hold strong unfortunately.

It's not about getting Finnair to change its mind... it's about the compensation claim firms as an industry. If this story is syndicated and people start to question the 'guarantees' of claim firms it could be bad for them as a whole. It might spur IfDelayed mark II to make things right and cover the costs. Long shot, but the OP has nothing to lose at this point.
 
I thought the point of the EU compensation was to deter airlines from treating passengers poorly and having all sorts of foreseeable delays.

There's many incidences where airlines have messed passengers around not because of weather or genuinely unforeseeable reasons but because its not profitable for them to deliver the service they sell and people buy in good faith.
There's many incidences where some airlines have absolutely no regard for the poor passengers. They may miss getting to see their terminally ill father before they die or get to their funeral for example. It's not always missing a few hours of a sunny holiday.

It's my understanding that Finnair made a business decision to take a gamble on new A350 planes and take lots of bookings when these brand new planes had not gone through the usual airline teething and testing problems that come with new products.

Nicnet and I aren't the only passengers who experienced these significant and lengthy delays, there were many others.
Many others, who were not forced to go through the Finnish Court system. Finnair paid their compensation because they could not claim it was "unforeseeable and unavoidable"

In my personal circumstance, we bought a ticket from what we believed to be a reputable airline who would get us from A to B on time (or as close to as possible, notwithstanding unforeseen and unavoidable events).
We bought tickets at short notice because our father had a stroke and we had to get there quickly and had to return to Australia in a short time frame because we had to get back to work, so therefore didn't want to travel economy for the whole journey because its so uncomfortable.

From a cost and comfort perspective, using Finnair business for part of the journey was the best way we could manage that journey. No undercutting anyone.
Later that year, my father in law passed away as a result of this stroke, far quicker than we expected.
My family travelled economy direct, there and back within a week. It's excruciatingly uncomfortable and actually painful. And that's not taking into consideration the emotional part of the whole situation.

To answer your point, no I do not know the costs of running an airline. Finnair do. That's why they set the price and sell a service that should take into consideration all the factors necessary when running a reputable business, including all they can to avoid foreseeable events that mean they can't fulfill their obligation to their customers
In the judgment of the EU courts, (and the Finnish ombudsman for that matter) they didn't, that's why they had to pay compensation to the passengers who did not need to use the Finnish court system.
Finnair has no control over the idiotic decisions of the EU. Controlled mostly by people who expect everything for nothing. Just refer to their other ridiculous conditions.
My condolences for your loss. But If they were to include all anticipated costs. Most people would not be able to fly. The airline industry is the hardest to make any profit. Check the bankruptcy 11 fiassco in the US.
Yet people still want full service, flexible fares at budget prices. Sorry its a fact. Look at the drastic cuts that airlines have had to introduce. Still its take take take then complain. Air travel is no longer a pleasure for most and will get more like a bus trip, wich in truth is, except faster. Compare fares now to 20 years ago. An airline last week were offering HAN/SGN for USD2.00. I guess people also want all the extras.
 
Just found this thread, all I can say is wow.
I dont pretend to understand the law let alone finnish law, but i would have thought idelayed promising no fees, then it should be them thats pursued in this case,
but anyway,
if it was pursued in teh courts, and they won, can the debt be partically enforced???

see/read/hear about stories of people with $10,000s of speeding/parking/covid fines etc. etc. and never have to pay a cent because they cry poor. obviously a bit easier to chase if you have lots of assets/cashflow
 
Just found this thread, all I can say is wow.
I dont pretend to understand the law let alone finnish law, but i would have thought idelayed promising no fees, then it should be them thats pursued in this case,
but anyway,
if it was pursued in teh courts, and they won, can the debt be partically enforced???

see/read/hear about stories of people with $10,000s of speeding/parking/covid fines etc. etc. and never have to pay a cent because they cry poor. obviously a bit easier to chase if you have lots of assets/cashflow

There's nothing particularly complex about the law here. The problem is that the original IfDelayed went bankrupt. Finnair won its case and instead of IfDelayed paying all the costs, they went after the passengers who's name the case was brought. The new IfDelayed is saying 'bad luck', not our problem.

Technically Finnair can collect the debt here in Australia via the legal system. The cost of them doing so might dissuade them, but then again, it might not. Adding more cost to the OP :(
 

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