First lounge hypothetical

[elanshin]

Hypothetically you could argue and potentially be "correct" but you could also just straight up get blocked by the lounge manager's "discretion".

In terms of hypothetical rules, i suspect it's not that different to the JQd/QFd from Int'l. But pushing your luck too hard in this sort of space could actually see the t&c updated and impact the current status quo.

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

In December I’m flying JQ from MEL-SYD on a cheap JQ flight leaving from the international terminal after I’ve enjoyed brekkie in the First Lounge. I’m then meeting a friend in the SYD First Lounge for lunch, and then we’re both flying to MEL on another cheap JQ flight from the international terminal.

Don't hope too much to it, its not unknown for an equipment swap to happen, and you will get put onto a JQd a320.
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Also, maybe you do not know, MEL and SYD int terminals, their arr and dep are on different tiers, ie, not on the same level, or storey.
You have to go into and out of Aust immi zones, so, one of the JQi flights, might get swapped, and you will be relegated to dep from T4 in MEL/T2 in SYD.
All those tag flights, are not a cert, and not daily.
To get to int dep, you have to show photo id each time you enter, the T1 at MEL for a dom pax on an int flight, and then in SYD, go out into the public area, and then back into T1 outgoing immi, not to mention, having to go through int sec screeninbg, which can be a pain in the you know where.
To get from int arr to int dep, you have to have a true transit, and a BP, so its most likely, you have to be immi incoming cleared to enter Aust, at T1 int arr, and then go out into the public area, and then back through immi outgoing, and int sec screening at T1.
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Have done it several times, with JQi SYD - MEL, and QFi BNE - SYD, not at the same time, not on the same, day...
Would I do it again, maybe, but I wouldn't do it too many times on the same day!

 

[Hampton Mike]

I’ve done both legs before separately but not together. I understand the logistics of the immigration requirements. If I get swung onto a domestic the deal will be off, and I’ll cancel (for a flight credit - I always add the max bundle for the extra benefits)

 

[serfty]

It's literally the first paragraph of the lounge T&C:
View attachment 352987

Even that is wrong when basing access on Class of Service due to the onworld connecting flights rule. e.g. SYD-PER in (international) economy connecting to PER-DOH in First.

@TomYagher , there is nothing in your thoughts that hasn't been considered in the past.

 

[ChrisMars]

Hypothetically, a reward domestic QF makes it financially viable imo.
The comparaison with SIN is a bit different, due to explicit signs, and being a foreign country. There is nothing illegal in this hypothetcall scenario in SYD.
F lounge access works for those domestic flights departing from int terminal, so I doubt scaning the bp while trigger an alarm. But the F lounge staff is switched on, they will pick it up. Will they laugh and let the person in, will they get upset and cause troubles? Who knows.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

As a World Platinum who occasionally flies out of the international terminal on a non-OW airline, my solution here is to use my AmEx Platinum card which grants me access to 4 count em, 4 lounges at the international terminal
- Plaza Premium (Departures area)
- AmEx Centurion Lounge
- The House Lounge
- Plaza Premium (Arrivals Lounge)

This perk also comes in handy for JQ flights as I have access to the exclusive Rex lounge at Terminal 2. And in the odd times I am flying Delta, Virgin Australia or Lufthansa I simply show the card to get in.

Is the annual fee a bit high here in Australia? Sure! But you can request 4 companion cards who will also get this lounge access. Perfect for your wife, relatives, and anyone you think may benefit from lounge access!

-RooFlyer88

 

[justinbrett]

Even that is wrong when basing access on Class of Service due to the onworld connecting flights rule. e.g. SYD-PER in (international) economy connecting to PER-DOH in First.

@TomYagher , there is nothing in your thoughts that hasn't been considered in the past.

Which QF is famous for not honouring.

In any case it doesn’t make it wrong, the oneworld rules just provides an alternative set of rules for access.

 

[Gremlin]

But you can request 4 companion cards who will also get this lounge access. Perfect for your wife, relatives, and anyone you think may benefit from lounge access!

I read this a bit too quickly and did a double take. I read it as:

"Perfect for your wives and anyone you think may..."

 

[TomYagher]

my solution here is to use my AmEx Platinum card

My goodness…. It wasn’t a problem that required a solution.

The hypothetical was would first Lounge access be granted if you for some strange reason had a same day QF domestic ticket due to depart the Sydney domestic terminal, but somehow ended up In The international terminal.

Best Answer: thank you Chris Mars

Hypothetically, a reward domestic QF makes it financially viable imo.
The comparaison with SIN is a bit different, due to explicit signs, and being a foreign country. There is nothing illegal in this hypothetcall scenario in SYD.
F lounge access works for those domestic flights departing from int terminal, so I doubt scaning the bp while trigger an alarm. But the F lounge staff is switched on, they will pick it up. Will they laugh and let the person in, will they get upset and cause troubles? Who knows.

Hopefully a mod can close this thread now before someone else tries to remind everyone that either “border force might not like it” or “ salt and pepper squid isn’t worth risking your QFF account”

 

[RooFlyer]

Hopefully a mod can close this thread now before someone else tries to remind everyone that either “border force might not like it” or “ salt and pepper squid isn’t worth risking your QFF account”

You mean after about 25 replies, you got one answer you were wanting, and now you don’t want to hear anymore about the very many reasons why your hypothetical would not work. You asked the question and you’re getting the answers; deal with it.

 

[TomYagher]

You mean after about 25 replies, you got one answer you were wanting, and now you don’t want to hear anymore about the very many reasons why your hypothetical would not work. You asked the question and you’re getting the answers; deal with it.

Correct! It was about the lounge access rules. Not anything else thanks Chris for dealing with it.

 

[elanshin]

Correct! It was about the lounge access rules. Not anything else thanks Chris for dealing with it.

I think whilst its all fun and games personally to delve into hypotheticals and I'm happy to entertain the thought experiment.

The real danger is someone with less sense decides that due to the conclusions of the hypothetical, they try it in real life, push their luck a bit too much and have Qantas change the T&C to close the dom from Int'l benefit completely.

 

[justinbrett]

The comparaison with SIN is a bit different, due to explicit signs, and being a foreign country. There is nothing illegal in this hypothetcall scenario in SYD.

Assuming we're talking about the "revised hypothetical", then yes, that is not illegal. But as the next onwards flight is not on QF, the answer is no.

The original hypothetical will get you in to trouble, you don't need a sign to tell you that.

Will they laugh and let the person in, will they get upset and cause troubles? Who knows.

And lounge staff are famous for their humour and flexibility - not.

If they know about the other airline ticket, absolutely they won't let you in as its against the lounge access rules.

If you are just getting in on the basis of the domestic QF BP, QF will certainly ask how you got through passport control, and arrange for you to be taken landside so you can get to your flight (at which ABF will have questions, especially once they link you to the international flight). It's a world of hurt you don't want to be in.

If you really wanted to do it, you could do SYD-AKL-SYD with NZ, and then a later SYD-AKL with QF, and that would get you into the lounge, assuming the smart gates don't get tripped up by the fact you have two outbound flights on the same date. But the lounge would let you in.

 

[tdimdad]

Not sure border force would care if you missed a Sydney- mel domestic flight.

They might ask why you should be let into the int'l area when you have a domestic flight coming (unless, of course, it departs from the int'l terminal).

As a hypothetical question, you might be able to pull it off. Another way you could try it is to enter the terminal with the original int'l BP, while there you book a suitable refundable or throw-away OW or JQ flight and use that to enter the lounge. The tricky part might be if the Border Force sense that you suddenly have APIS data on two overlapping flights.

Given that I'd rather be in the good books with the border control(s) and airlines than access a particular lounge, I would not do this but if you are game with your hypothetical scenario, it might work. Possibly. Or then not at all and you'd miss both flights.

 

[TomYagher]

original hypothetical

The original was a ticket, departing, either T2, or T3, I just didn’t realise I’d have to make it so explicit

Border Force sense that you suddenly have APIS data

Is APIS collected on domestic flights?

 

[justinbrett]

The original was a ticket, departing, either T2, or T3, I just didn’t realise I’d have to make it so explicit

Yes, so QF either asks how you got through passport control in T1 (setting off the below response), or you tell them about the international ticket, in which case they will reject you based on lounge access rules.

Either QF know you are flying overseas on another airline first, which will negate any ABF action, but deny you the lounge; or they don't know about the overseas flight, you're in a place you shouldn't be, ABF will be informed. It's really one or the other. There's no circumstance where the lounge agent will "have a laugh and let you in".

They might ask why you should be let into the int'l area when you have a domestic flight coming (unless, of course, it departs from the int'l terminal).

Not might. Will. You have effectively departed the country and will need to return through immigration/customs unless you have a D on your BP, which you don't, and it's not a valid BP for the terminal - absolutely will be setting of a chain of events that's not in your favour.

 

[encryptededdy]

I don't think the border force would care unless QF International Lounge staff tell them. I doubt they keep track of Domestic Flights (and besides, you don't need to provide your ID details to book/check-in for a domestic flight). With that said though, as others have mentioned, the FLounge staff are pretty switched on and it's definitely within the realm of possibility they will raise something.

I've actually had one experience entering the QF Flounge and presenting a domestic boarding pass - I was flying SYD-xMEL-LAX and I was very tired, so presented my domestic BP at the Melbourne FLounge accidentally. It was very uneventful - they just said "wrong boarding pass, can I see your international one?". I had actually lost it so they ended up printing one out for me.

If you wanted to try this with any chance of success (and I acknowledge your original post was hypothetical), you'd need a Domestic Flight departing from the international terminal, alongside an alternate international flight that you actually intend to take (such that you don't end up in the intl' area with no valid flight).

 

[TomYagher]

Okay, so it seems the lounge part is answered.

But now the discussion has got me wondering would ABF really care if you entered the international terminal, while you had a domestic flight booked same day. Would they even know? Is domestic flight data sent to ABF, especially if you’re a citizen, and even more so that you can basically book and fly on a domestic flight in Australia without ID.

Post automatically merged: Nov 9, 2023

doubt they keep track of Domestic Flights (and besides, you don't need to provide your ID details to book/check-in for a domestic flight).

Haha you beat me to my next question

 

[encryptededdy]

would ABF really care if you entered the international terminal, while you had a domestic flight booked same day.

In theory you wouldn't be doing anything illegal, but it's more just if the lounge manager raises this issue with them (which I think is possible), you'll have to explain to them what you're actually trying to achieve. You'd probably be let go after a talking to if you can prove that you actually intend to take your booked international flight.

 

[TomYagher]

I doubt they keep track of Domestic Flight

I recently had to get all my ABF flight data, and it only had international arrivals and departures.

I’m sure I’ve left the country and skipped out on a domestic flight, probably multiple times.

I’ve also had multiple international tickets booked out of the same airport on the same airline on the same day in an overseas port ( while transiting though, didn’t clear or pass immigration) and while I realise I was probably lucky, nothing happened, nor was I questioned.