First refurbished 767 enters service end of the month [Oct '12]

[TheInsider]

[h=2]27th October 2012 -
VH-OGQ Brisbane Test Flight.[/h]
Boeing 767-338ER VH-OGQ, which
spent from 7th - 24th October under maintenance at Brisbane, positioned to
Sydney on 24th and then operated one Sydney - Brisbane flight in service
that day, undertook a three hour Brisbane - Brisbane test flight this
afternoon as QF6116.


QANTAS News & Information - The QANTAS Source

 

[nlagalle]

I have seen on here many people complain about or suggest many things, and also praise things, yet when someone puts forward an argument about how something could be improved upon, or changed the canned reply for the sheep or Qantas fan boyz who could not possibly see anything wrong with Qantas or Alan Joyce and who just go with the flow is "Don't fly with them it's simple".

But really it is not that simple and I prefer to fly Qantas, and am simply pointing out that imo they are being tight cough by handing out Ipads instead of doing a proper upgrade.

sorry i don't agree here. there is no point spending money on new IFE that could take more than a year to install then be put out to pasture. it doesn't make business sense as there is no ROI.

Exactly, but the arguments so far are that it will need certification and it is also possible that the wifi will also weigh 2 tonnes.

And you don't believe that? very doubtful that 6 odd AP's and a server unit will weigh 20kg let alone 2 tonnes. Having large scale changes done to an aircraft does require it to be re-certified and weight and balance done again. a full IFE suite with new seats will certainly weigh enough to make changes (and not to mention how long the a/c will be out of action for.

good luck eating and using the IFE when it is an Ipad.

if the set up is the same as they tested easlier this year then the ipad fit on the seat back and not in the tray. so i don't see what the problem is there?

No just stock standard cheap-cough move by Qantas.

Out come the sheep and fanboyz.

Should they have just left it as it was? All you keep saying is it should be full IFE, but if it was your dollars being spent on something to only be around for a year or two you wouldn't want to spend it. it'd be like putting a full seatback system into your own car costing thousands then sending the car (along with said system) to pick-a-part 12 months later.

 

[moa999]

AusBT tweet that the bird flies tomorrow, and promising pictures

 

[Mal Ware]

sorry i don't agree here. there is no point spending money on new IFE that could take more than a year to install then be put out to pasture. it doesn't make business sense as there is no ROI.

I don't see how it would take a year or more to install some led screens into the back of seats, seriously do think it would take that long?

it doesn't make business sense as there is no ROI.

I could care less about Qantas' ROI, I would prefer that as a paying customer I am receiving a return for my investment. How much the provider is going to make or what it might cost them is of no concern to me. When you are paying for a service do you worry about the ROI that company is going to get, or is it just Qantas that you are so concerned about fiscally?

And you don't believe that? very doubtful that 6 odd AP's and a server unit will weigh 20kg let alone 2 tonnes. Having large scale changes done to an aircraft does require it to be re-certified and weight and balance done again. a full IFE suite with new seats will certainly weigh enough to make changes (and not to mention how long the a/c will be out of action for.

Another weak argument..... Checking that led screens in the backs of seats are safe is hardly going to be that much of a hassle to check considering the other changes they are making.

if the set up is the same as they tested easlier this year then the ipad fit on the seat back and not in the tray. so i don't see what the problem is there?

If that is the case then it might be more user friendly when eating. Of course one potential problem with this is that there will be no ife prior to take-off or landing and if they have already collected them close the destination and the aircraft is put into a holding pattern for 20/30/40 minutes, guess what, you are just twiddling your thumbs where as with ife in the seat you can continue to be entertained.

Should they have just left it as it was? All you keep saying is it should be full IFE, but if it was your dollars being spent on something to only be around for a year or two you wouldn't want to spend it. it'd be like putting a full seatback system into your own car costing thousands then sending the car (along with said system) to pick-a-part 12 months later.

The thing is, my dollars and my company dollars are being spent on a full service premium airline, I don't look at providers and hope they are saving money, I like to see that I am getting what I am paying for.

 

[nlagalle]

I don't see how it would take a year or more to install some led screens into the back of seats, seriously do think it would take that long?
I could care less about Qantas' ROI, I would prefer that as a paying customer I am receiving a return for my investment. How much the provider is going to make or what it might cost them is of no concern to me. When you are paying for a service do you worry about the ROI that company is going to get, or is it just Qantas that you are so concerned about fiscally?

the re-fit the fleet of 16 birds only taking one at a time out, you do the math. Of course if you are so concerned about your return, feel free to explore other domestic options if IFE is so important to you. I think you will find that QF do have better options than most..

Another weak argument..... Checking that led screens in the backs of seats are safe is hardly going to be that much of a hassle to check considering the other changes they are making.

it's got nothing to do with checking screens in seat back, your comments just highlight your lack of knowledge about aviation and what checks are required of aircraft when changes are made, especially major ones that can dramatically change the W&B of and aircraft.

If that is the case then it might be more user friendly when eating. Of course one potential problem with this is that there will be no ife prior to take-off or landing and if they have already collected them close the destination and the aircraft is put into a holding pattern for 20/30/40 minutes, guess what, you are just twiddling your thumbs where as with ife in the seat you can continue to be entertained.

Well no one can comment as we haven't seen them in action yet.

The thing is, my dollars and my company dollars are being spent on a full service premium airline, I don't look at providers and hope they are saving money, I like to see that I am getting what I am paying for.

So is your company really that worried about what IFE is installed in aircraft? If they do they have some serious problems. Your company will only care about you getting from A to B for a reasonable cost. of course installing new IFE could jack up the price and I am sure they would be happy about that.

 

[mannej]

I find it amusing that it is apparently as easy as cutting a hole out in the seat and putting a new screen in.

It has been mentioned previously that even small changes require things to be certified. For the time required to fit the iPads in, to me it does seem to make sense.

Considering that the 767's are the next to go out of the fleet, would it be wise to waste the money on a complete refit? I think not. QF are a business are they not?

 

[mannej]

As an aside, do you consider Lufthansa a premium carrier?

 

[JohnPhelan]

I find it amusing that it is apparently as easy as cutting a hole out in the seat and putting a new screen in.

Presumably because, if they're wireless, they don't need cables, so you can just cut a hole in the seat foam and shove them in. Perhaps with some velcro to hold them in place, in case of turbulence?

 

[mannej]

Presumably because, if they're wireless, they don't need cables, so you can just cut a hole in the seat foam and shove them in. Perhaps with some velcro to hold them in place, in case of turbulence?

And their source of power✈?

 

[CaviAck]

And their source of power✈?

The "10 hour" battery

Running power cables to each seat makes it pretty much half the job to installing dedicated seat back IFE systems.

 

[Mal Ware]

the re-fit the fleet of 16 birds only taking one at a time out, you do the math. Of course if you are so concerned about your return, feel free to explore other domestic options if IFE is so important to you. I think you will find that QF do have better options than most..

Haven't heard that one before.

it's got nothing to do with checking screens in seat back, your comments just highlight your lack of knowledge about aviation and what checks are required of aircraft when changes are made, especially major ones that can dramatically change the W&B of and aircraft.

I didn't realize I was talking with an Aircraft engineer. btw my knowledge of the aircraft is how it gets me from a to b and what service is provided, that is all I am interested in, not the share prices or expenditures of the company which you seem to have a keen interest in.

So is your company really that worried about what IFE is installed in aircraft? If they do they have some serious problems. Your company will only care about you getting from A to B for a reasonable cost. of course installing new IFE could jack up the price and I am sure they would be happy about that.

lol your arguments just get weaker and weaker. Face it, seat back entertainment would be a much better option for passengers, surely you cannot deny that?

The fact you are simply arguing to support Qantas cost cutting shows you will follow any of Qantas' decisions blindly and are a self appointed mouthpiece for all things Qantas like so many here.

Enjoy your Ipads.

 

[Kaldemir]

It's probably not that much lighter but that isn't where the weight saving is. It's the massive data storage racks on the aircraft containing all the content, notice the heavy metal IFE boxed in the middle of each row through the cabin, not to mention the enormous amount of cabling through the whole aircraft to sync the system when required (for safety videos etc).

See the following article regarding Scoot (an LCC I know but it makes no difference...) and how taking out IFE for ipads saved two tonnes per plane. Imagine the difference that makes to fuel use year after year.



It's probably not that much lighter but that isn't where the weight saving is. It's the massive data storage racks on the aircraft containing all the content, notice the heavy metal IFE boxed in the middle of each row through the cabin, not to mention the enormous amount of cabling through the whole aircraft to sync the system when required (for safety videos etc).

See the following article (from bloomberg) regarding Scoot (an LCC I know but it makes no difference...) and how taking out IFE for ipads saved two tonnes per plane. Imagine the difference that makes to fuel use year after year.

Scoot Pte is offering Apple iPads to budget long-haul travelers after ripping out aircraft entertainment systems weighing more than two tons to save fuel.
The tablets helped the carrier cut 7 percent off the weight of planes obtained from parent Singapore Airlines even after a 40 percent increase in seating, Chief Executive Officer Campbell Wilson said. The savings will help Scoot, which makes its maiden flight today, cope with fuel prices that have jumped about 36 percent in two years.

Fuel is “the number one worry” for any airline, as it usually accounts for at least 40 percent of costs, Wilson said in a June 1 interview in Singapore. Scoot will charge economy passengers S$22 ($17) a trip to rent the tablets, which are loaded with movies, music, games and television shows.
Cutting costs and finding new sources of revenue will be key for Singapore-based Scoot as it seeks to make a profit flying older planes than other low-cost carriers and selling tickets as cheap as S$158 one-way to Sydney, a flight of more than seven hours. Singapore Air formed Scoot after budget operators led by Jetstar and AirAsia Bhd. won 26 percent of the city’s air-travel market.
The iPads are “a very smart move,” said Corrine Png, JPMorgan Chase & Co.’s Singapore-based head of regional transportation research. “If they can make the aircraft lighter, it does help improve fuel efficiency.”

The 2t saving is probably right. You'd also save 300x23=6900kg, almost 7t by removing the free luggage allowance. LCC policy I'd say. Saving money where you can

 

[oz_mark]

lol your arguments just get weaker and weaker. Face it, seat back entertainment would be a much better option for passengers, surely you cannot deny that?

The fact you are simply arguing to support Qantas cost cutting shows you will follow any of Qantas' decisions blindly and are a self appointed mouthpiece for all things Qantas like so many here.

Seat back screens may well be better, but they are replacing an even older system. I don't know all the constraints that would prevent using seatback screens, but they are at least doing something.

As for cost cutting, I am not sure it should be characterized as such. Cost cutting would be removing the old system and leaving you with nothing.

Sent from my GT-I9300T using AustFreqFly

 

[simongr]

lol your arguments just get weaker and weaker. Face it, seat back entertainment would be a much better option for passengers, surely you cannot deny that?

The fact you are simply arguing to support Qantas cost cutting shows you will follow any of Qantas' decisions blindly and are a self appointed mouthpiece for all things Qantas like so many here.

Enjoy your Ipads.

I think you are missing the point. I think we all acknowledge that seat back entertainment gate to gate would be a better solution. So would free champagne for P1, limo pick ups for all J flights (not just long haul) and the list goes on. What I think some of us are recognising is that not spending spending to do that is a rational decision.

Again it is not blindly accepting everything that QF says - personally I would rather not bear a higher ticket price so that you can enjoy two episodes of 2 1/2 men.

The 2t saving is probably right. You'd also save 300x23=6900kg, almost 7t by removing the free luggage allowance. LCC policy I'd say. Saving money where you can

What a fatuous argument. For a start not everyone checks luggage and if they do they don't all max out the allowance. There is also no current suggestion that they are going down this path.

All companies are looking to cut costs where they can. For example EK fly to AKL because it works out cheaper than parking in SYD. Does that make them an LCC?

 

[nlagalle]

Haven't heard that one before.

well you seem so concerned about the IFE, perhaps a few VA/JQ/TT flights would be in order?

I didn't realize I was talking with an Aircraft engineer. btw my knowledge of the aircraft is how it gets me from a to b and what service is provided, that is all I am interested in, not the share prices or expenditures of the company which you seem to have a keen interest in.

Pilot actually. so I do understand a bit about weight and balance and what effect it has on an aircraft. as you have admitted you don't know about it, then why continue to make silly comments highlighting your lack of knowledge?

lol your arguments just get weaker and weaker. Face it, seat back entertainment would be a much better option for passengers, surely you cannot deny that?

i've never said it wouldn't be. it would be if you were purchasing new aircraft or refitting older aircraft that would have several more years of service. the 767's aren't going to be here in 5 years time so there is no point spending a huge sum of money where the return won't be made. At least with this option, there is still and IFE that can be easily taken out and used elsewhere. And as we have seen with other airlines trialing streaming you can look at using your own device and also watch content later on if you don't get to see it all.

The fact you are simply arguing to support Qantas cost cutting shows you will follow any of Qantas' decisions blindly and are a self appointed mouthpiece for all things Qantas like so many here.

Enjoy your Ipads.

As you haven't been on here long, you wouldn't have read all my posts, so you wouldn't know that I don't always support moves that QF do. i do support this however as i see seatback IFE in the 767's a complete waste of money for an aircraft that won't be around in a few years. The fact you can't reasonably argue points or respond to mine suggests you have a weak argument!

 

[mannej]

Can I ask how it is cost cutting when they are actually spending the money to put a system in?

Can you also answer do you see Lufthansa as a premium carrier?

 

[nlagalle]

The 2t saving is probably right. You'd also save 300x23=6900kg, almost 7t by removing the free luggage allowance. LCC policy I'd say. Saving money where you can

What's that got to do with the IFE? Luggage and pax have nothing to do with the Basic Empty Weight of an aircraft. i'm not sure what you are trying to say with your argument?????

 

[serfty]

Well, OGQ flew as QF505 this morning.

It is scheduled to operate to PER early this evening and to be overnighting there before heading back to SYD tomorrow.

I guess QF have scheduled in significant turnaround periods to allow time make any further tweeks.

FWIW, IFE at the turn of the century may have been two tonne - contemporary SoA systems would conceivably carry significantly less weight/volume.

 

[NM]

I guess QF have scheduled in significant turnaround periods to allow time make any further tweeks.

and to recharge the batteries

 

[markis10]

FWIW, IFE at the turn of the century may have been two tonne - contemporary SoA systems would conceivably carry significantly less weight/volume.

Not so sure about that Serfty, we are talking 3Kg per head unit minimum on a thin client, thats 1.2T before wiring on Scoot, if we look at the Thales Top System (they have 45% of the IFE market), their head units typically weigh 5Kg (keeping in mind their smart client systems re storage rather than dumb clients talking back to centralized storage).