First refurbished 767 enters service end of the month [Oct '12]

[mannej]

Mal Ware, can you please answer my question directed at you.

Do you consider Lufthansa a premium carrier?

 

[serfty]

My ipad does a lot more than any seat back touch screen does...

So does my Netbook and for me it's a lot easier and flexible to watch programs with than a tablet - but that still does not get over the fact of where to put it when using the tray table for other purposes such as meals etc.

 

[nlagalle]

Silly comments highlighting lack of knowledge? lol 2 tonnes per aircraft for IFE is a silly comment, and I believe you were the one suggesting that. Pot/Kettle...

Actually it was markis10 who gave the weight as an rough example which isn't far off the mark when you do the sums. You cannot acknowledge that that much of a weight difference needs to be calculated in the weight of the aircraft. That highlights your lack of understanding.

Do the math on each IFE unit, x the number of seats plus cable weights. 2 tonnes adds up pretty quickly.

And how long do you think each aircraft would be out of services? Certainly more than a month each.

 

[Joshua]

Somehow I don't feel that is such a bad thing. I have responded to all of your posts, again you are incorrect.

Let me actually provide a source (a thing that shows you're not just making cough up but actually something to back it up). Google results vary widely from half a tonne to 6000 lbs (IFE: Home Theatre in the Skies | ATWOnline) which is 2.72 tonnes - a worst case legacy IFE in a 747. If that isn't clear, 2.72 tonnes is MORE than 2 tonnes

Weight from cabling runs can be crazily huge. With satellites they're slowly moving to internal wireless communication because again, the weight from wiring is so great.

These are not subjective opinions. If you wish to dispute them please provide some evidence. The difficulty is you provide no evidence and your argument strategy is to attack/abuse the credibility of the other poster.

My opinion is for an aircraft that is not expected to be utilised beyond the short term (and was meant to have already been moved on), it is a hard expectation to install any IFE. However if if the market conditions suggest there is such a requirement then installing iPads or similar are an ideal option for several reasons that others have suggested. Personally I seldom use any IFE, even on long haul flights in first class I will not even open the screen. I would imagine that an iPad would be a significant improvement on any system installed in economy you may have experienced, however there always remains some significant advantage to a 'dedicated' installation. Aviation entertainment hardware may very well become a service industry (think RIM in the phone market), time will tell.

tl;dr: I agree with under the radar.

 

[markis10]

Silly comments highlighting lack of knowledge? lol 2 tonnes per aircraft for IFE is a silly comment, and I believe you were the one suggesting that. Pot/Kettle...

The devil is in the detail Mal Ware, something your assertions clearly lack, the 2 Ton figure (another detail issue you have missed, it's tons, not tonnes) was spelt out by scoot in a release Bloomburg picked up (IPads on a Plane Let Scoot Save Fuel by Shedding TV Tons - Bloomberg).

As I pointed out in a previous post, basic maths knowledge makes your comment the silly one, if Scoot had gone with the Thales new 787 system which is head heavy with storage etc, it tops out at close to 5 kg, 5kg x 400 means we have hit 2 Tonnes on the nose, passing 2 Ton with some comfort, before we count wiring for power. As for installation time, give Boeing a call and ask why the Qatar 787 has yet to be delivered that was showcased at Farnborough earlier in the year.................http://nyc787.blogspot.com.au/2012/09/qatar-airways-787-delivery-delayed-due.html

In the case of the QF 767, installing seat back IFE would probably add a tonne to the aircraft, or the weight equivalent of 14 passengers, take close to two months to fit, cost $5M in pure purchase costs and another $15m in lost revenue. Thats $320M of capital investment/losses added to QFs bottom line, pretty hard to recover that with additional income when you only have five years at best for the first plane modified.

 

[ajw373]

That opens a whole new can of worms in regards to seating...

Why? If you don't BYO you watch the screen in front, if you BYO you have the option to watch either.

 

[ajw373]

As I pointed out in a previous post, basic maths knowledge makes your comment the silly one, if Scoot had gone with the Thales new 787 system which is head heavy with storage etc, it tops out at close to 5 kg, 5kg x 400 means we have hit 2 Tonnes on the nose, passing 2 Ton with some comfort, before we count wiring for power. As for installation time, give Boeing a call and ask why the Qatar 787 has yet to be delivered that was showcased at Farnborough earlier in the year.................All things 787: Qatar Airways 787 delivery delayed due to IFE, internet connectivity issues

Not arguing that fixed IFE doesn't add weight, but will point out in your argument above you seemed to have used a figure of 400 pax on a 787 to get to this magic 2000kg mark. A 787-8 in two class config which is basically what Scoot will have is more like 270 passengers, so 5*270=1350 which is clearly about 2/3rd's of 2tonnes. Also you will find the figure of 5kg is a worse case average per seat which also factors in the weight of the central equipment and the cabling.

 

[markis10]

Not arguing that fixed IFE doesn't add weight, but will point out in your argument above you seemed to have used a figure of 400 pax on a 787 to get to this magic 2000kg mark. A 787-8 in two class config which is basically what Scoot will have is more like 270 passengers, so 5*270=1350 which is clearly about 2/3rd's of 2tonnes. Also you will find the figure of 5kg is a worse case average per seat which also factors in the weight of the central equipment and the cabling.

Who is talking 787, Scoot are talking about their 777s having the IFE removed which saved 2 Ton (not Tonne), which have 400+ seats as they fly at present. The reference to the Thales 787 system is an example of a modern IFE unit being put into new production aircraft, where they are just as heavy as the old systems despite advances in technology, because the experience has been upgraded, countering the assertion that the latest technology will be lighter.

“We had customers who had our system 3000 and we took hundreds and hundreds of pounds of weight out of it when we went to the eX2 [IFE system]”.

What tends to happen is that when you take weight and cost out of a screen based product customers tend to say, ‘Oh good, I’ll have a bigger one then’, so the water gets back to finding it’s level.”

 

[ajw373]

Who is talking 787, Scoot are talking about their 777s having the IFE removed which saved 2 Ton (not Tonne), which have 400+ seats as they fly at present. The reference to the Thales 787 system is an example of a modern IFE unit being put into new production aircraft, where they are just as heavy as the old systems despite advances in technology, because the experience has been upgraded, countering the assertion that the latest technology will be lighter.

Umm you, just look at the bit I have quoted.

 

[markis10]

Umm you, just look at the bit I have quoted.

Yep, I said if scoot had gone with Thales new 787 system (as an example of a new generation system), not if Scoot had gone with the new Thales system for their 787, the context being the discussion of the 777 mods, the weight saving and what new generation systems can offer today.

. A 787-8 in two class config which is basically what Scoot will have is more like 270 passengers, so 5*270=1350 which is clearly about 2/3rd's of 2tonnes. Also you will find the figure of 5kg is a worse case average per seat which also factors in the weight of the central equipment and the cabling.

To address your comments if we do look at the 787 scenario, Scoot will have 300 on their 787s at this stage, and if you look at the detail I provided, I said the head end in the Thales new generation system for the Qatar 787 weighs 5Kg, thats not including cabling and there is no real central equipment, its smart endpoint design rather than central storage. 300 x 6Kg if we include wiring (40 metres of 26 AWG at 0.27kg per 10m)= 2 Tons . I have included the customer control unit which is android based in the weight as well.

 

[Mal Ware]

So does my Netbook and for me it's a lot easier and flexible to watch programs with than a tablet - but that still does not get over the fact of where to put it when using the tray table for other purposes such as meals etc.

True, that is where the main problem is.

Actually it was markis10 who gave the weight as an rough example which isn't far off the mark when you do the sums. You cannot acknowledge that that much of a weight difference needs to be calculated in the weight of the aircraft. That highlights your lack of understanding.

Sorry Captain, my bad.

Weight from cabling runs can be crazily huge.

Yeah 3 inch by 6 inch wireless screens must weigh a tonne, or two...

 

[Sprucegoose]

so where are these pics??

 

[nlagalle]

True, that is where the main problem is.

Sorry Captain, my bad.

Yeah 3 inch by 6 inch wireless screens must weigh a tonne, or two...

Seen as you can only throw veiled insults, it just proves you aren't interested in doing the maths. it's already been outlined how heavy IFE systems can be overall, yet you seem to be the only one who doesn't agree with it!

 

[under the radar]

I'M BORED!!! ARE WE THERE YET?? ARE WE THERE YET?? ARE WE THERE YET??.....

 

[mannej]

True, that is where the main problem is.

Sorry Captain, my bad.

Yeah 3 inch by 6 inch wireless screens must weigh a tonne, or two...

So if these are fixed into the actual seat, where is the power for these "wireless" screens going to come from?

Again, you fail to answer my question I have posted previously...

 

[moa999]

Even though Qantas broke the embargo with the Instagram pic copied above.

 

[spentan]

pics are up

Photos: Qantas updates Boeing 767 fleet with iPad-friendly seats - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

 

[JohnPhelan]

Nine News in BNE last night had a story about the upgrades which included vision of the new interiors on the first aircraft.

 

[chrisb]

pics are up

Photos: Qantas updates Boeing 767 fleet with iPad-friendly seats - Flights | hotels | frequent flyer | business class - Australian Business Traveller

The guy in the first picture is a serious arm rest hog.

 

[lovestotravel]

Pics looks nice and the iPad holder is a big step above what Virgin offer!