First trip to Europe November - December 2023

[Steady]

I have booked flights for our first trip to Europe (Mrs, Miss and myself) We have 4 days in Singapore where another Miss Steady will join us, then onto London for 4 days, and another 4 seeing family in Exmoor and Leeds - flying Manchester to Naples where we will head from bottom to top, onto Austria, Switzerland, Germany/Cech Republic not sure, then some time in Paris before heading home. We are keen to see lots of Italy and it will be a whirlwind tour hopefully followed up in the future with a visit or two to the places that most appeal.

We have only booked the flights - we are working through the itinerary to lock it in before we start looking for and booking accommodation - we plan to use busses and trains mostly to see the countryside. Is that realistic?

I'm comfortable with Singapore and UK plans - I'm mostly unsure about Italy (15 nights)

2 nights Naples inc day trip to Pompeii
3 nights Malta
4 nights Rome (thinking -1)
2 nights Florence/Pisa/Cinque Terre (and +1)
1 night Bologna
2 nights Marghera (?) day trip to Venice
1 night Trento

2 nights Innsbruck

2 nights Zurich

3 nights Stuttgart / Nurenburg / Prague - not decided which Christmas markets I want to visit

4 nights Paris

Does it look feasible ? Maybe 4 days is too much for the city of Paris and for looking around Rome

 

[AIRwin]

2 nights Zurich

Is this a must?

 

[RooFlyer]

Maybe 4 days is too much for the city of Paris and for looking around Rome

I wouldn't think so - I'm assuming the miss-es are of an age where they'll appreciate the places. Versailles is a day trip; Vatican will take a day, esp if you take one of the tours (recommended). Best I think are the 'early/first access' into the Sistine Chapel.

busses and trains mostly to see the countryside. Is that realistic?

I would think so. Haven't done Italian trains myself, but heard a lot about them.

There is a great hop-on, hop-off bus that goes round the main island of Malta to most of the sights outside the city. Boat trip to see the harbour. See the canons going off every afternoon from Valetta. There's the most sinful hot chocolate place in old town Valetta - I can dig it out if it sounds a starter!!

Choose your Pompeii tour carefully. Its a place where lots of tours end up aggregating onto the same bus the morning of the tour and its a bit of a rushed and 'we don't care' sort of day. I'd check that you can't do Pompeii out of Rome - Naples is a bit of a dump, although Mt Vesuvius worth going up!

 

[Steady]

Is this a must?

No, not a must. mrs and miss came across Lindt home of chocolate - Switzerland’a chocolate museum and we thought why not…..

 

[voulez]

My random thoughts:
1. Agree Naples is a bit meh. Would recommend Herculaneum as an alternative to Pompeii - it's a smaller site, but very well preserved (incredible detail on frescoes/mosaic) such that you can walk through the old Roman town within a half day.
2. Be mindful moving around every 2-3 days, checking in/out of accom with bags, waiting for/going on 2-4 hour train trips, etc. can get tiring very quickly over the span of a few weeks. Might want to build flexibility to drop certain cities if you feel like that then.
3. I haven't been to all the cities above, and to each their own: I love Rome/Paris (4 days would accommodate Vatican/Versailles day trips; love Venice as touristy as it is (2-3 days); Would pick Florence > Pisa/Cinque Terre (pretty but a pain to get to and back for a quick itinerary.

 

[Steady]

I wouldn't think so - I'm assuming the miss-es are of an age where they'll appreciate the places. Versailles is a day trip; Vatican will take a day, esp if you take one of the tours (recommended). Best I think are the 'early/first access' into the Sistine Chapel.



I would think so. Haven't done Italian trains myself, but heard a lot about them.

There is a great hop-on, hop-off bus that goes round the main island of Malta to most of the sights outside the city. Boat trip to see the harbour. See the canons going off every afternoon from Valetta. There's the most sinful hot chocolate place in old town Valetta - I can dig it out if it sounds a starter!!

Choose your Pompeii tour carefully. Its a place where lots of tours end up aggregating onto the same bus the morning of the tour and its a bit of a rushed and 'we don't care' sort of day. I'd check that you can't do Pompeii out of Rome - Naples is a bit of a dump, although Mt Vesuvius worth going up!

My youngest has been an adult for a few years, of the list she suggested Florence, Malta, Bologna, Trento and Innsbruck and thinks 4 days is too long in Rome and Paris - she is also not that interested in Naples or Pompeii (or Venice really). My interest in Naples is it is the birthplace of pizza and my wood fired oven is built in the ratios of ovens dug up in Pompeii

im sure the chocolate place will be a starter

 

[Scash]

Agree Naples is a bit meh.

Would agree. I'd give Naples a miss and instead maybe head to Sorrento and even Positano (the coastline is so beautiful and picturesque), although that time of the year some places may be closed. We got the train from Sorrento to Pompei and joined a tour of Pompei. Well worth a visit in my opinion.

and thinks 4 days is too long in Rome and Paris

Depends on what you want to do but I think 4 days in each is the minimum. Lots to see and do in both. We did an all day walking tour in Rome which was well worth the money. Got skip the line entry to the Colosseum, Vatican etc plus good info from the guide. It is along day though.

love Venice as touristy as it is (2-3 days)

+1

Be mindful moving around every 2-3 days, checking in/out of accom with bags, waiting for/going on 2-4 hour train trips, etc. can get tiring very quickly over the span of a few weeks. Might want to build flexibility to drop certain cities if you feel like that then.

Agree. You lose a lot of time travelling. We decided to see fewer places but spend more time in each. From memory 3 nights was the minimum we spent anywhere. Trains generally are awesome and a relaxing way to get around. This website is the go to for train travel The Man in Seat 61 | The train travel guide. This site is also informative Rome2rio: discover how to get anywhere.

 

[RooFlyer]

My interest in Naples is it is the birthplace of pizza and my wood fired oven is built in the ratios of ovens dug up in Pompeii

Well that's the best reason to visit Naples that I've heard!

 

[Disco]

My random thoughts:
1. Agree Naples is a bit meh. Would recommend Herculaneum as an alternative to Pompeii - it's a smaller site, but very well preserved (incredible detail on frescoes/mosaic) such that you can walk through the old Roman town within a half day.
2. Be mindful moving around every 2-3 days, checking in/out of accom with bags, waiting for/going on 2-4 hour train trips, etc. can get tiring very quickly over the span of a few weeks. Might want to build flexibility to drop certain cities if you feel like that then.
3. I haven't been to all the cities above, and to each their own: I love Rome/Paris (4 days would accommodate Vatican/Versailles day trips; love Venice as touristy as it is (2-3 days); Would pick Florence > Pisa/Cinque Terre (pretty but a pain to get to and back for a quick itinerary.

Agree with the moving around: we have travelled on trains around France, Switzerland, Austria and Italy and they have been very good but it takes a main portion of the day. Innsbruck was a lovely surprise and a great scenic route is the train from Zurich.
We also love Rome/Paris and Florence. The Cinque Terre is great for hikes - not sure about the time of year - but as stated not easy to get into. Staying on the coast could be helpful i.e. lots of ferries going between the towns but again this may be time of year/weather dependent.

 

[Steady]

Well that's the best reason to visit Naples that I've heard!

Maybe just passing through will be enough, I haven’t heard anything nice about the place from anyone since deciding to add it in.

 

[TheRealTMA]

I have booked flights for our first trip to Europe (Mrs, Miss and myself) We have 4 days in Singapore where another Miss Steady will join us, then onto London for 4 days, and another 4 seeing family in Exmoor and Leeds - flying Manchester to Naples where we will head from bottom to top, onto Austria, Switzerland, Germany/Cech Republic not sure, then some time in Paris before heading home. We are keen to see lots of Italy and it will be a whirlwind tour hopefully followed up in the future with a visit or two to the places that most appeal.

We have only booked the flights - we are working through the itinerary to lock it in before we start looking for and booking accommodation - we plan to use busses and trains mostly to see the countryside. Is that realistic?

I'm comfortable with Singapore and UK plans - I'm mostly unsure about Italy (15 nights)

2 nights Naples inc day trip to Pompeii
3 nights Malta
4 nights Rome (thinking -1)
2 nights Florence/Pisa/Cinque Terre (and +1)
1 night Bologna
2 nights Marghera (?) day trip to Venice
1 night Trento

2 nights Innsbruck

2 nights Zurich

3 nights Stuttgart / Nurenburg / Prague - not decided which Christmas markets I want to visit

4 nights Paris

Does it look feasible ? Maybe 4 days is too much for the city of Paris and for looking around Rome

View attachment 317698

Looks like a contiki tour. Too many places, too much time wasted in translocation and not enough time in places to enjoy. In Europe, especially Italy, no need to travel Australian distances between stops. Spend time and enjoy the Caravaggios, food and scenery.

 

[drcam]

I've done the main sights of Rome in one whirlwind day - the Vatican, the Forum, the Collosseum and the Trevi Fountain and Tiber River. So taking one day off your Rome itinerary is easily doable.

Paris needs 4 days at a MINIMUM.

Are you going to London on this trip also?

 

[VPS]

I wouldn't think so - I'm assuming the miss-es are of an age where they'll appreciate the places. Versailles is a day trip; Vatican will take a day, esp if you take one of the tours (recommended). Best I think are the 'early/first access' into the Sistine Chapel.



I would think so. Haven't done Italian trains myself, but heard a lot about them.

There is a great hop-on, hop-off bus that goes round the main island of Malta to most of the sights outside the city. Boat trip to see the harbour. See the canons going off every afternoon from Valetta. There's the most sinful hot chocolate place in old town Valetta - I can dig it out if it sounds a starter!!

Choose your Pompeii tour carefully. Its a place where lots of tours end up aggregating onto the same bus the morning of the tour and its a bit of a rushed and 'we don't care' sort of day. I'd check that you can't do Pompeii out of Rome - Naples is a bit of a dump, although Mt Vesuvius worth going up!

Hot chocolate place - SUNDAY IN SCOTLAND - EXQUISITE CHOCOLATE

I saved it in my google maps when @RooFlyer talked about it. I didn't get to Malta on this trip but it's still on the list

btw - I think there is too many stops - I'll add a few comments later

 

[Steady]

I've done the main sights of Rome in one whirlwind day - the Vatican, the Forum, the Collosseum and the Trevi Fountain and Tiber River. So taking one day off your Rome itinerary is easily doable.

Paris needs 4 days at a MINIMUM.

Are you going to London on this trip also?

Yes, we have a week there before Italy.

 

[Steady]

Hot chocolate place - SUNDAY IN SCOTLAND - EXQUISITE CHOCOLATE

I saved it in my google maps when @RooFlyer talked about it. I didn't get to Malta on this trip but it's still on the list

btw - I think there is too many stops - I'll add a few comments later

We have been working on reducing the number of stops and doing day drips from a base.

 

[kelvedon]

No, not a must. mrs and miss came across Lindt home of chocolate - Switzerland’a chocolate museum and we thought why not…..

Chocolate museum aside, if you want to see mountains ( or the clouds covering them ) then I’d stay in Lucerne or Interlaken. Zurich is not the Alps.

 

[TheRealTMA]

We have been working on reducing the number of stops and doing day drips from a base.

FWIW: We always do min 3 nights in each stop. More stops doesn’t mean more interesting things just more exhaustion.

ps: as above, Lucerne is a very good stop to explore mountains and Swiss lakes. Easy to get in and out of. Zurich is a nice airport connected very well by Swiss trains.

 

[TheRealTMA]

BTW : for Lucerne this is quite useful.

Lucerne Guest Card | Discounts | Lake Lucerne Region | Luzern.com

Guest Card • Discounts • Experiences & Excursions • Buses • Mountain Railways • Cable Cars • Museums • Lucerne City • Lucerne-Lake Lucerne Region

www.luzern.com

Normally your hotel will give you a link.

 

[Steady]

if you want to see mountains ( or the clouds covering them ) then I’d stay in Lucerne or Interlaken.

ps: as above, Lucerne is a very good stop to explore mountains and Swiss lakes. Easy to get in and out of. Zurich is a nice airport connected very well by Swiss trains.

Zurich was added for the train trip between it and Innsbruck - the chocolate tour was secondary. Otherwise we would have gone straight into Germany from Austria

 

[docjames]

Dump Zurich.

Do
Nurnberg
Munich
Innsbruck
Venice
Florence
Rome
Malta
Paris


Basically jump across, work your way North to South, then back to Paris