Fixing QF Lifetime Status

[CaptJCool]

- The number of folks with lifetime status that are of age, continues to grow. These folks will travel less and less frequently with age, and I'm sure there's a correlation between the age of pax <-> ability/willingness to spend/fly.

Overseas Arrivals and Departures, Australia, August 2024

Statistics on international travel arriving in and departing from Australia.

www.abs.gov.au

Graph 14.8 tells the story
there seems to be quite the drop-off from age 50 and nearly non-existent after 85

- Most important: The number of people who have disengaged/are dis-incentivized once hitting lifetime status

Is disengagement a function of "they're not paying anymore" Many are the senior public servants (who btw DO NOT receive FF points for flying) Fly - Air travel | Department of Finance and get an extra generous travel meals allowance plus paid QF club - go figure why you get paid for a meal you don't spend money on....

Travel Services Statistics | Department of Finance the spend is in the millions...
and senior CL crowd who are funded by their "business" to fly QF J to do so.

when the time comes to finishing up work, I would expect many of them flee the "free" comfort of the expensive pointy end to cheap JQ Y or some other airlines cheaper J. Unless of course they got a generous superannuation or they follow the bouncing ball of AFF

 

[downtheback]

And like magic, Qantas would instantly pull back all lifetime elites away from Virgin and other carriers.
Virgin has no way to counter this without costing them a small fortune.

Qantas has a waiver from oneworld to implement these initiatives.

Let's get the party happening, QF!
Time to make lifetime status more interesting again.

You make a lot of great points. My 2c:

LTP should be 35,000 SC and LTP1 should be 70,000 SC. Going from 14,000 to 75,000 SC is just ridiculous. Keep LTS and LTG at the same rates (7,000 and 14,000 SC respectively).

Secondly, like the idea that having LT status means you start each membership year with the equivalent SC (note: which wouldn't count towards LT status).

Example: You're a LTG. At the start of the membership year your SC resets to 600 SC (these 600 SC don't count towards LT status). To qualify for Platinum you require 800 SC, to re-qualify you require 600SC. For P1, you need 3,000 SC with at least 2,100 on QF.

That's a pretty decent perk imo.

 

[aikman]

Example: You're a LTG. At the start of the membership year your SC resets to 600 SC (these 600 SC don't count towards LT status). To qualify for Platinum you require 800 SC, to re-qualify you require 600SC.

If this was the case then why bother aiming for LTP when you can achieve the same thing by earning only 600 SC per year.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Secondly, like the idea that having LT status means you start each membership year with the equivalent SC (note: which wouldn't count towards LT status).

Example: You're a LTG. At the start of the membership year your SC resets to 600 SC (these 600 SC don't count towards LT status). To qualify for Platinum you require 800 SC, to re-qualify you require 600SC. For P1, you need 3,000 SC with at least 2,100 on QF.

That's a pretty decent perk imo.

I wouldn't call getting a status credit headstart each year a perk.
It should be there, but QF decided not to do it (to be fair - they probably didn't consider it at the time as nobody in the loyalty team would have personally had the experience of being lifetime status, and there were very few lifetime holders back when it was put into place).

I am LTG.
Any status credits under 1400/sc/year are essentially wasted effort, as I'm gold no matter what.

My point is that the number of LTG holders who don't qualify for Plat or higher each year now exceeds the number that do qualify for Platinum or higher each year, and therefore, it makes more sense now (it probably didn't some years ago), to give that 700SC headstart to LTG holders versus them starting at 0 each year.

 

[Himeno]

You make a lot of great points. My 2c:

LTP should be 35,000 SC and LTP1 should be 70,000 SC. Going from 14,000 to 75,000 SC is just ridiculous. Keep LTS and LTG at the same rates (7,000 and 14,000 SC respectively).

Secondly, like the idea that having LT status means you start each membership year with the equivalent SC (note: which wouldn't count towards LT status).

Example: You're a LTG. At the start of the membership year your SC resets to 600 SC (these 600 SC don't count towards LT status). To qualify for Platinum you require 800 SC, to re-qualify you require 600SC. For P1, you need 3,000 SC with at least 2,100 on QF.

That's a pretty decent perk imo.

I agree, the difference in the LT status earn points is insane.
Assuming you just get the min required status credits to earn, then retain, each membership year, it would take ~23-26 years to earn either LTS or LTG.
The same min earn for LTP is 62 years.
If LTP, via min required yearly earn (1400 first year, 1200 each following year for ~24 years), to match the other LT tiers, it should require around 30,000 SC. 35,000 would be a more logical requirement then 75,000.

I currently have 26,000 life time status credits (would have been around 32,000 by now based on average yearly earn rates had covid not happened).

75,000 for LTP might have been a reasonable number in the higher earn days before "simpler and fairer", but not now.

 

[kpc]

Overseas Arrivals and Departures, Australia, August 2024

Statistics on international travel arriving in and departing from Australia.

www.abs.gov.au

Graph 14.8 tells the story
there seems to be quite the drop-off from age 50 and nearly non-existent after 85



Is disengagement a function of "they're not paying anymore" Many are the senior public servants (who btw DO NOT receive FF points for flying) Fly - Air travel | Department of Finance and get an extra generous travel meals allowance plus paid QF club - go figure why you get paid for a meal you don't spend money on....

Travel Services Statistics | Department of Finance the spend is in the millions...
and senior CL crowd who are funded by their "business" to fly QF J to do so.

when the time comes to finishing up work, I would expect many of them flee the "free" comfort of the expensive pointy end to cheap JQ Y or some other airlines cheaper J. Unless of course they got a generous superannuation or they follow the bouncing ball of AFF

Interesting graph....most travellers are between 30 and 60, and by 70 it reallly starts to drop off....I give myself 10-15 years of International Travel left, and I suspect by 70, I'll either be on a cruise ship or just travelling domestically!

 

[trippin_the_rift]

If this was the case then why bother aiming for LTP when you can achieve the same thing by earning only 600 SC per year.

Because there are more inactive/non-Plat qualifiers who have LTG, than there are LTG who qualify for Plat.

It's a numbers game. There is more upside in QF making the change than in not (plus there's a nice media tone to adding legit new features).
The adverse selection group is now smaller, and therefore, the opportunity now exists where previously it didn't.

Overseas Arrivals and Departures, Australia, August 2024

Statistics on international travel arriving in and departing from Australia.

www.abs.gov.au

Graph 14.8 tells the story
there seems to be quite the drop-off from age 50 and nearly non-existent after 85

This is the total number of travellers by age. You'd need to find elite status holders by age that travel. It would be a higher age group than your standard traveller. Less than 5% of loyalty members have status, but they can represent up to 20% of travellers on any given day.

 

[wandering_fred]

Changes in the basic FF programs over the last ten years have influenced flight choices (and where they were credited). Thus I have ended up with Life Time one world Ruby with both AA and QF (in that order with a bit of CX status flying in between). Pity none of the programs now support the long haul economy flyer.

With a great deal less incentive to travel Australia-USA as I age, QF will likely remain the "active" program. So here is my suggestions for the QFF team to have the life time status members continue to fly to obtain the next level up. And to be honest there would be a far more incentive for that LF silver member to fly to have lounge access than that of the LF Gold member to access the First lounges.
existing LT Silver - to obtain annual Gold - 600 SC and 6 ~ flights (QF JQ 3K earning flights)
existing LT Gold - to obtain annual Platinum - 1200 SC and 6~ flights

Meanwhile, Qantas move the Perth terminal to a single common location.
Even as I age past the point of reasonably priced travel insurance I will continue to like wandering
Fred

 

[downtheback]

If this was the case then why bother aiming for LTP when you can achieve the same thing by earning only 600 SC per year.

That's not exactly the point.

The 600 SC head start is to encourage LTG holders to still fly/credit to QF and go for platinum each year. That 600 SC worth of flying credited to any other OW program won't get them near Emerald.

Reducing the requirement for LPT from 75,000 to 35,000 SC is to encourage people to aim for LPT (by making it somewhat achievable). 75,000 may as well be 1m SC for most people, it's just way too far out of reach. 35,000/1,200 = ~29 years of qualifying for Platinum, or ~10 years of qualifying for P1.

If you're LTS, you start with 250 SC and only need to fly 350 SC to retain gold each year. Another incentive to keep people in house as they go up the ranks.

 

[mrsterryn]

If you're LTS, you start with 250 SC and only need to fly 350 SC to retain gold each year. Another incentive to keep people in house as they go up the ranks.

Even though husband and I do tend to fly business, I have to say that with LTS head start would be an encouragement to stay under the Qantas umbrella. Currently platinum, haven't even really tried to maintain that status this year.
The short trips to Tokyo or suchlike in premium economy would go back to Qantas
Lol I think
In our earlier days of travel we didn't have the knowledge of AFF.

 

[exceladdict]

I wouldn't call getting a status credit headstart each year a perk.
It should be there, but QF decided not to do it (to be fair - they probably didn't consider it at the time as nobody in the loyalty team would have personally had the experience of being lifetime status, and there were very few lifetime holders back when it was put into place).

I am LTG.
Any status credits under 1400/sc/year are essentially wasted effort, as I'm gold no matter what.

My point is that the number of LTG holders who don't qualify for Plat or higher each year now exceeds the number that do qualify for Platinum or higher each year, and therefore, it makes more sense now (it probably didn't some years ago), to give that 700SC headstart to LTG holders versus them starting at 0 each year.

Definitely, something needs to be done to create the incentive, especially if they are flying qf and costing qf every time they enter a lounge, but then crediting points and SCs or equivalent elsewhere (and in theory costing qf more).

Meanwhile, Qantas move the Perth terminal to a single common location.

Agree!!!

That's not exactly the point.

The 600 SC head start is to encourage LTG holders to still fly/credit to QF and go for platinum each year. That 600 SC worth of flying credited to any other OW program won't get them near Emerald.

Reducing the requirement for LPT from 75,000 to 35,000 SC is to encourage people to aim for LPT (by making it somewhat achievable). 75,000 may as well be 1m SC for most people, it's just way too far out of reach. 35,000/1,200 = ~29 years of qualifying for Platinum, or ~10 years of qualifying for P1.

If you're LTS, you start with 250 SC and only need to fly 350 SC to retain gold each year. Another incentive to keep people in house as they go up the ranks.

Yes, the target needs to be achievable to be realistic. There must be a reason they set the bar so high though - if too many people received it automatically they'd have even less incentive to continue to credit to qf when flying.

FIFO travellers on flex Y fares intra WA would be netting about 1560 SCs per year (estimate from 60 per fortnight ). But I'd consider 20 years of doing something a "lifetime" so even if the bar was 28,000 (earning from 0 20 times, as is LTS and LTP) it becomes much more realistic.

And as with the WP to P1 journey there must be incentives along the way. Perhaps these are different to the standard earn/retain journey - more frequent but lower value loyalty bonuses, etc.

The short trips to Tokyo or suchlike in premium economy would go back to Qantas

Or, to focus it even further on revenue to QF, perhaps for LTS/LTG, perhaps the boost is a different type of loyalty bonus conditional on QF tickets/codes, as others have suggested. 8 flights might be reasonable?

 

[CaptJCool]

20 years of shuttling back and forth to Canberra has seen some long term pollies recorded in the Register of Interests hit LTP.

 

[kpc]

20 years of shuttling back and forth to Canberra has seen some long term pollies recorded in the Register of Interests hit LTP.

I think the current foreign minister is one such person....but now she flies on the government jet for work mostly from what I see on TV! I assume she is also a CL member

Sky high for Wong reaching the top tier

The political veteran has scored the ultimate achievement in the world of corporate perks.

www.smh.com.au

 

[wannabeinvestmentbanker]

20 years of shuttling back and forth to Canberra has seen some long term pollies recorded in the Register of Interests hit LTP.

I’d suggest it’s a lot more than CBR trips that got that.

My 2 cents is that 50k would be reasonable

 

[Matt_01]

I think the current foreign minister is one such person....but now she flies on the government jet for work mostly from what I see on TV! I assume she is also a CL member

Sky high for Wong reaching the top tier

The political veteran has scored the ultimate achievement in the world of corporate perks.

www.smh.com.au

I thought there was a previous article around the time that QF introduced LTP and Ms Wong may have had LTP or not long after it was introduced. IIRC there were only limited direct ADL-CBR flights and under the QF contract government staff above a certain pay grade fly J, I have no idea what the bands are for APS, ATO staff etc. in the ADF it was 1 star's and above. The article makes assumption that are wrong as Ms Wong travelled in J, I have been seated next to her and regularly saw her on various flights into and out of ADL. It is really no different to others that I have sat next to including Ms Bishop, Mr Downer, Ms Vanstone and Ms Gillard. I think sitting members of parliament are given CL invitation, former members?

 

[serfty]

Of course, ADL-CBR is 604 miles. Pre Simpler and Fairer SC earn was quite lucrative for an ADL based federal politician.

 

[_TheTraveller_]

Agree with most of what's been said here. As someone who will reach LTG next month with at least 30 more years of travel (as per the stats), I'm already looking elsewhere to credit my flights.

Being WP for the past 9 years and P1 next month, I'm not sure I've ever felt rewarded for my loyalty with QF. Even as a lowly MVPG with Alaska, I've felt more recognition than QF in the 3 years I've been with them. 600/700 SC starter + a reasonable LTP would keep me on the wheel given it's a practical FFP for those oz based.

I do hope QF will take some pointers from this thread or what the competition is doing but I don't think they're ever that forward thinking. If AS 1/2MM included partners I would jump ship immediately. Just pondering whether BA or free agent + AS would be a better choice.

 

[CaptJCool]

I thought there was a previous article around the time that QF introduced LTP and Ms Wong may have had LTP or not long after it was introduced. IIRC there were only limited direct ADL-CBR flights and under the QF contract government staff above a certain pay grade fly J, I have no idea what the bands are for APS, ATO staff etc. in the ADF it was 1 star's and above.

SES were approved to fly J and were expected to "consider" flying Y on the short hops Sydney Canberra for example but yeah Nah

otherwise

https://www.ato.gov.au/uploadedFiles/Content/CR/downloads/ATO_Enterprise_Agreement_2017.pdf

Air travel
39.2 Approval will be given for the class of air travel to be upgraded to “business class” if available, when;
a) an employee is required to travel overseas; or
b) an EL2 employee is required to travel on flights greater than 1,600 ‘air kilometres’

39.3 An EL2 employee, who is likely to undertake eight return flights in the forthcoming 12 month period, is entitled to ATO-funded lounge membership.

 

[harvyk]

I find these sorts of threads on AFF very amusing, primarily because they assume the average QFFer is as switched on about the program as the average AFFer.

The average QFFer would typically have little idea about how SC's work. For the average SG / WP all they would know is out of the blue a letter arrived in the mail inviting them to go into the lounges and have a bit more checked baggage.

The average flyer doesn't care about this stuff, and if it happen it happens and they don't know why. They don't spend their nights trawling through forums, working out the best runs, and deciding how to book. They simply want to get onto a plane, be treated like a human, and end up where they need to end up. Anything else is just gravy. This is who Qantas is targeting with Lifetime status, because when this normal QFFer is told "every-time you fly Qantas from here on in, we'll give you lounge", they don't know why, they figure they flown a bit in their life, and now there is a big incentive to fly QF over other airlines for the rest of their life.

 

[aikman]

That's not exactly the point.

The 600 SC head start is to encourage LTG holders to still fly/credit to QF and go for platinum each year. That 600 SC worth of flying credited to any other OW program won't get them near Emerald.

Reducing the requirement for LPT from 75,000 to 35,000 SC is to encourage people to aim for LPT (by making it somewhat achievable). 75,000 may as well be 1m SC for most people, it's just way too far out of reach. 35,000/1,200 = ~29 years of qualifying for Platinum, or ~10 years of qualifying for P1.

If you're LTS, you start with 250 SC and only need to fly 350 SC to retain gold each year. Another incentive to keep people in house as they go up the ranks.

I think 600 SC to renew Platinum each year would be a bargain. It would certainly bring dormant LTGers back to QFF but does Qantas really want an army of Platinums who only earned 600 SC to get there?

Will it create two classes of Platinum, one who had to earn 1200 and another 600?

One indirect return J trip to NZ on DSC would just about get you 600. Cleverly timed status runs can stretch your status out to almost two years.

Sure a few people will try to go for LTP but I think most people will only go for the annual renewal at 600 and stop there.