Flight Centre refunds for cancelled flights

[travel_bug]

Flight Centre called my kid out of the blue and told her the Cancelled SQ flights can be held as a credit for future use within 12 months or get a refund less $300 fee.
The lady on the phone also said that the Credit was held by SQ not flight centre - to which I say is BS. I doubt FC has paid SQ already for flights in the future. If this is true, can this be verified direcly with SQ?

Kid opted to hold as a credit for now, as she wasnt prepared for the discusssion, which IMO needs to be submitted in writing anyway.

Best thing for her and anyone else right now is just wait a month and see how these complaints to Fair trading or whatever is going. I dont actually blame FC for sticking to their guns and holding travel refunds as credit. Every company on the planet is trying to survive too, including the customers.

I honestly can't believe what they're doing, for any short term gain in fund they get, won't this just turn people off the already struggling TA industry?

This was posted on The Guardian this morning: Australian travel companies must honour refund policies, consumer watchdog says
Though the article only mentions TopDeck, I wonder if the ACCC may be referring to providers like Fight Centre or VA who are enforcing terms for customer initiated cancellation onto flights/services which are being cancelled by the providers.

 

[DC3]

I honestly can't believe what they're doing, for any short term gain in fund they get, won't this just turn people off the already struggling TA industry? ...

Not really surprising. This is consistent with how FC operates.

Edit: Very poor form however

 

[moa999]

The ACCC statement is weak as.

They do not for example say
Irrespective of any Cancellation Clauses in the Travel Agents T&C's, the Travel Agent must provide a full refund in the event the cancellation is initiated by the Airline

 

[travel_bug]

The ACCC statement is weak as.

They do not for example say
Irrespective of any Cancellation Clauses in the Travel Agents T&C's, the Travel Agent must provide a full refund in the event the cancellation is initiated by the Airline

They’re a toothless tigers for consumers, it seems they really only act against businesses on the competition side of things.

It’s frustrating that as a country with such a sound consumer law, we have to actually litigate to get any results if our rights are denied.

 

[SydneySwan]

Okay then. Its still not clear though whether the credits are still held with Virgin and are in control by Flight Centre, or if Flight Centre are holding onto the credits themselves....

According to FC Virgin flight credit is held by Virgin but under the control of FC in that you have to contact FC to use it and it is a one-use only credit. I would have thought that it would operate like any other Virgin travel bank credit. Does anyone else have some knowledge about this?

 

[Hadfickla]

Chose refund on trip to Europe on Emirates cancelled In February as we were booked for April. Chose refund instead of credit. Understood that the Deposit would be taken - but have had no refund at all. It is business class so a significant amount of money. Starting to get worried.

 

[Pushka]

Chose refund on trip to Europe on Emirates cancelled In February as we were booked for April. Chose refund instead of credit. Understood that the Deposit would be taken - but have had no refund at all. It is business class so a significant amount of money. Starting to get worried.

Did you pay by credit card? If so, raise a dispute with them for refund not received. You will need to lodge all documentation.

 

[jarman_ah]

I rejoiced this morning when the 9News headline announced, "Flight Centre backs down on cancellation fees after customer backlash", and went on to report that "Flight Centre scraps cancellation fees" (another headline said "axes"). My whoop of victory for everyone on this thread was, however, short-lived. The headlines were not backed-up by the subsequent text, which said, rather than "scrapped", that Flight Centre had made amendments to its terms and conditions, so that in future, instead of $300 per person, it would charge a maximum of $600 per booking (international). In other words, a family of four making a booking will only be charged the $300-each cancellation fee for two of them... the others get off scot-free. Well, that's not much of a concession to the customers who bought single tickets or tickets for two. They still pay exactly what they paid before.... a hefty cancellation fee because COVID-19 changed the airlines' schedules. Frankly, I don't think that's good enough! If you didn't cancel through your own volition, then your fee ought to be nil. Nil whether you bought one ticket or twenty. That's much simpler and much fairer. Yes, I know that Flight Centre has lost a lot of business, and that it needs to recover its operating costs from somewhere or else shut its doors forever... but if it is an agent for the AIRLINES (which, apparently, is the case), then it's quite easy to see where it should be getting its "fees for service" from! You and I should be left out of that part of the transaction altogether.

 

[Pug1]

I got the email from FC with the capped cancellation fees. However I had also disputed the two Amex charges for the flights we are waiting on a refund. They were paid for last September. I disputed early April and Amex has now credited the full amount to my card and has transferred the funds to our bank account. They advised this morning that they had not heard from FC but could still do so at a later date. In my case we cancelled so I am prepared to pay the cancellation fees but this puts the pressure back on FC to contact us. The argument I used with Amex was that I cancelled on 19 March and despite a number of emails to FC had not been contacted and we are entitled to a next business day refund. It is simply not acceptable to have to wait months for a refund.

 

[theblank]

. The headlines were not backed-up by the subsequent text, which said, rather than "scrapped",

headlines rarely are supported by the body of the article.
I would like to see Capital Punishment introduced for this crime., it causes all kinds of social outrage as people share the headline, nobody reads the article.
Thus the media can seed and influence the public even moreso than biased reporting does.

 

[Mattg]

The Australian Federation of Travel Agents has come out in defence of Flight Centre (and other agents), labelling mainstream media reports unbalanced an inaccurate.

"Travel agents deserve to be paid": AFTA stands up against mainstream media reports - Travel Weekly

AFTA has ramped up its efforts to protect travel agents from the "misreporting" of refunds on cancelled trips by mainstream media outlets.

www.travelweekly.com.au

 

[jarman_ah]

The Australian Federation of Travel Agents has come out in defence of Flight Centre (and other agents), labelling mainstream media reports unbalanced an inaccurate.

"Travel agents deserve to be paid": AFTA stands up against mainstream media reports - Travel Weekly

AFTA has ramped up its efforts to protect travel agents from the "misreporting" of refunds on cancelled trips by mainstream media outlets.

www.travelweekly.com.au

Honest to God, I don't dispute the claim that agents -- travel or otherwise -- deserve to be paid. If they didn't get paid, why would they choose to be agents? My dispute is over who should pay them. I always believed that agents took their cut from the clients whose interests they represented. "Flight Centre" isn't MY agent, or YOURS. It is an agent for the airlines, who negotiate a fee for service in order to ensure that every flight leaves full. Okay, so the airlines ought to pay the commission (and I'll bet they do!). I just don't see why the customer should have to pay a commission, too, since we are actually helping Flight Centre do its job. Notice that it doesn't have the word "agent" written up there in bold letters next to its name any more. And no wonder! It operates by its own rules, and, frankly, this new defence of Flight Centre by the Federation of Travel AGENTS smells out loud. This federation seeks to redefine the concept of an agency, and they are doing it in order to disadvantage you and me, the travelling public.

 

[muppet]

The Australian Federation of Travel Agents has come out in defence of Flight Centre (and other agents), labelling mainstream media reports unbalanced an inaccurate.

"Travel agents deserve to be paid": AFTA stands up against mainstream media reports - Travel Weekly

AFTA has ramped up its efforts to protect travel agents from the "misreporting" of refunds on cancelled trips by mainstream media outlets.

www.travelweekly.com.au

AFTA talks about agents charging “small and reasonable” fees, Flight Centre’s are neither.

Airfares are very simple to book and to refund and charging $300 for it is insane.

The problem is, Flight Centre’s business model preys on misfortune. Very low up-front fees and absurdly punitive fees when something changes. They would never have earned this level of revenue because most people stick with their plans, they are in face profiteering by charging $300 pp as almost 100% of customers would have involuntarily cancelled.

 

[Flyinfish]

I thought they were all on Job Keeper? so... we pay twice?

 

[travel_bug]

The Australian Federation of Travel Agents has come out in defence of Flight Centre (and other agents), labelling mainstream media reports unbalanced an inaccurate.

"Travel agents deserve to be paid": AFTA stands up against mainstream media reports - Travel Weekly

AFTA has ramped up its efforts to protect travel agents from the "misreporting" of refunds on cancelled trips by mainstream media outlets.

www.travelweekly.com.au

I've read the full press release and can't see where the media reporting has been inaccurate, unless maybe some have omitted that some suppliers are the reason for the delay in refund.

Additionally, if their issue is the media reporting on the $300pp fee, the concept of reasonability is subjective and should be open to interpretation. We know that FC for instance considers their $300pp/$600cap fee is reasonable, but it's inaccurate within itself to claim "inaccuracy" for the media airing a consumer's issue with that definition when the fee makes up the majority of the booking, and the airline may be one that is not charging for their own work in making refunds. Maybe if they had a percentage based charge on a sliding scale with a max I'd have different thoughts.

Also the claim that "travel agents deserve to be paid" is so emotive. There is no argument that employees deserve to be paid for the work they do, however considering that travel agents are agents of the suppliers and have their deals through them, the issue of employees' wage payments is one that you'd imagine would be factored into those corporate contracts and agreements. If you're relying on changing your contract after the fact to include charges to consumers to sustain your workforce, you may be trading while insolvent (even though there's now also JobKeeper that's assisting in keeping your workforce going anyway).

Travel agents deserve to be paid, but I wonder how many will continue to be employed after these tactics, particularly for clients where the airline or other supplier has agreed to a refund in full.

If I was a hotel or airline, I'd be going strong on advertising any price match promises post Covid. A kind of "keep out the middle man" narrative, that would be particularly strong for the majority millennial client base that uses online travel agents like booking.com. Because to be honest, I've only ever used such sites to get cheaper prices to then provide to the supplier directly to match with some sort of bonus for booking direct: extra VFF points via VA or Accor points and status privileges.

Sorry, rant over.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

AFTA talks about agents charging “small and reasonable” fees, Flight Centre’s are neither.

Agree! That's the exact point I took away.

A 'small and reasonable fee' when that fee makes the agent more per hour or per day than than a brain surgeon or Queen's Counsel? I think not.

re jarman's point - the agent is an agent for the airline. They make their money in commissions not only on airfares (which vary by airline), but also in commissions from insurance (I've read this can be up to 60% of the premium), and from ancillary services like visas and car hire. If an airline cancels, let them still pay the agent money.

It's also rubbish that agents are spending hours changing bookings. In many cases agents are doing that free of charge, but are lobbing $300 for a cancellation intitiated by the airline (and no changing or rebooking involved!)

Just to have another go at this... in which universe does a travel agent think $300 per person is a 'small fee'? That's up to 12 or more hours work for the average worker.

 

[jarman_ah]

AFTA talks about agents charging “small and reasonable” fees, Flight Centre’s are neither.

Airfares are very simple to book and to refund and charging $300 for it is insane.

The problem is, Flight Centre’s business model preys on misfortune. Very low up-front fees and absurdly punitive fees when something changes. They would never have earned this level of revenue because most people stick with their plans, they are in face profiteering by charging $300 pp as almost 100% of customers would have involuntarily cancelled.

Note the wording of AFTA's media release.
"The release outlines the role of suppliers in providing refunds or credits, delays in refunds, travel insurance, new bookings, and cancellation fees.
Paying a small, reasonable fee for this work given the reality of the COVID-19 pandemic is appropriate recognition of the time travel agents are investing in helping consumers understand what your options are and how best to access them."

Note how they talk about the role of SUPPLIERS (not agents!) in providing refunds, and then go on to say that it's reasonable for a "small reasonable fee" to be paid for the work involved in such provision. So far I am in perfect accord with the statement. Now, unless I totally misunderstand what's going on when I buy a plane ticket, it seems that the supplier -- the company who allots me a seat on its plane, checks my bags, and lets me fly away to my destination -- is the AIRLINE. So, what AFTA is saying is that it is the job of airlines to provide refunds under certain circumstances, but that it would be reasonable for them to deduct a "small, reasonable fee" from that refund for its work in setting this up. Once again, okay.... and, of course, that's the way it works.

But what on Earth does any of that have to do with an AGENT? The word "agent" is suddenly brought up near the end of the quote, when AFTA tells us that the travel agents such as Flight Centre are spending time in helping their customers. But don't theatrical agents, for example, spend time (and sometimes money) "selling" their clients' talents and abilities to producers and directors who are looking for someone to play a part? And if the agent's client does get the job, who pays the agent? The producer? Not on your sweet life. His job is to pay the client. And the CLIENT -- the person who hires the agent to represent him/her in achieving the outcome, pays the agent out of the money he/she is suddenly making. But if the client doesn't get hired -- that is, if there's no money coming in -- then the agent doesn't get paid. In what world does the agent then go along to the producer and say, "You didn't hire my client, so he has no money, si you have to pay me anyway, for the work I have been doing for him"?

I have never "hired" Flight Centre, or any travel agent. But airlines do.... THEY release seats to them so that they can dispose of them fast, and that, for the airline, is the desirable outcome. If the airline is lucky, I go along to Flight Centre and help out. Flight Centre talks me into paying the airline some money, I do it happily, and then, in every other world except the travel agents' world, the agency holds out its hand to the recipient of the money for its "cut". End of story. I have been using travel agents since the beginning of the sixties, long before there was a Flight Centre, and possibly before there was an AFTA, which now takes it upon itself to change the rules of what an agent is. AFTA, perhaps you ought to change your name to AFTW (the 'w' being for "wholesalers").

 

[p--and--t]

Ok so something has changed . Bad press or ACCC intervention ???

We had flights booked for a trip to Malaysia(conference) and Thailand in July. MH changed the dates due to rescheduling that means we would miss the first day of the conference and have the second flight occur before the first!

Two weeks ago offers from Aunt Betty (Fright Centre) were , (1) change date $55 per person or (2) cancel flight $250 per person. We rejected with the intention of seeing what might happen closer to the date (maybe airline cancel or reschedule again or whatever).

Today they agreed at no charge to seek approval from MH to issue us a full value refund MH voucher that can be used anytime until 30 June 2021, and we will no longer have to deal will AB, just the airline direct. (14day delay to get the voucher)

No fingers crossed MH make it through the current mess to use the vouchers.

 

[SydneySwan]

I just received this from FC

Dear SydneySwan

We know that many of our customers are frustrated that their holiday plans have been disrupted or cancelled by travel providers and that you might also be experiencing financial uncertainty as a result of COVID-19.

Our business and our industry have also been significantly impacted by the unprecedented travel restrictions that have been implemented to slow the virus’s spread. However, our customers remain our highest priority and to support you at this difficult time, Flight Centre will waive its usual Cancellation Fees for bookings where the travel provider (eg airline, cruise line or tour operator) has cancelled its service and you are unable to travel as a result.

The decision to waive fees will impact our business, nevertheless we have heard your feedback and we believe this step is the right one for the current economic conditions where stand downs and job losses are a daily occurrence for many Australians.

The waiver follows ongoing discussions with customers and regulators, including the ACCC, and will apply retrospectively to bookings cancelled as a result of COVID-19 on or after 13 March 2020 for which a Flight Centre Cancellation Fee was charged. Please note this waiver applies to our fees – we cannot waive fees or conditions that airlines and other third party suppliers impose.

Our people will, of course, continue to perform the time-consuming task of processing refunds and following up with individual suppliers on your behalf. We will also do what we can to speed up the process, although this is largely outside of our control and dictated by the supplier in question.

We are processing refund requests in date order and are currently focusing on bookings for travel up to and including 30 June 2020. This refund process will continue on a rolling basis as we progress into the new financial year.

With refunds and cancellations, it is also important to note that suppliers’ policies are changing constantly and vary widely. In many cases, they are also reasonably short-term in application.

This means that if you do have longer-term bookings, you may not yet have clarity around final amendment or cancellation positions and it may be in your interests financially to wait for further policy updates from the travel service provider at this time.

Many customers are, of course, choosing to postpone their holidays and to leave their money on file with us as a Flight Centre credit that can be used for future bookings, and this might be an attractive proposition for you given the incentives we are now offering for doing so.

For example, if you choose to keep funds as a Flight Centre credit (less any applicable supplier cancellation fees), you can rebook your holiday before December 31, 2021 and travel at a later date. If travel during this extended period is not possible, we will gladly refund your booking after that date without charging our Cancellation Fees. In addition, when you use your Flight Centre credit, we will provide a complimentary Captain’s Package (per person), valued at $49, as outlined in previous communications to customers.

Today, we are also very pleased to announce that we have decided to offer an additional Flight Centre credit voucher of up to $200 per person (pp) to customers with international or domestic bookings who choose to keep their money on file with us, as outlined below:

• $2,000 pp of FCTG credit equals $50 pp voucher
• $4,000 pp of FCTG credit equals $100 pp voucher
• $6,000 pp of FCTG credit equals $150 pp voucher
• $8,000 pp of FCTG credit equals $200 pp voucher

In this uncertain climate, we understand that you may have some concerns about the health of our business. We announced (via the Australian Securities Exchange) on April 6 that we had taken very positive steps to strengthen our long-term liquidity position and were well placed financially to weather a prolonged downturn in demand resulting from restrictions on travel and trading.

We hope that our steps to support our customers alleviate any ongoing concerns you may have with your travel booking. The health, safety and support of our customers and people remain our top priority and we again thank you for your ongoing support and your feedback to our business.

I would also like to take this opportunity to thank our people for their tireless work to help our customers understand the options that are available to them and in constantly working to chase refunds from our suppliers. We also urge you to be considerate towards our people, as they are doing everything in their power at this challenging time to help resolve any issues for you.

Yours sincerely,

 

[dylarr]

It’s great news they’ve finally come to their senses and will not charge the extortionate cancellation fee for bookings that have been cancelled by the supplier and that they have received a full refund for themselves.

However they have acted way too late and the damage has already done to their brand and probably the entire industry as a whole. I know whenever I think about a FCG brand, I will always remember the way they handled this and will avoid them. And I’d seriously question whether I would book through an agent for anything given how it’s so much easier to get an acceptable resolution when you’re dealing with the airline directly.