Flight changes; unsure how to proceed

[MEL_Traveller]

True, but wouldn't QF Operations have known from LAX wheels up, what the projected impact was and IIROPS should have been able to start planning immediately .... or do I live in some Sci-Fi world where the airlines are totally oblivious to network issues until they become apparent to the passenger and in the real world there's no predictive software, and no contingency planning?

Regards,

BD

maybe this is something for Melburnian1!

how long was the plane scheduled to be on the groundin JFK under the ordinary schedule? was there a possibility the turn-around could have been completed more quickly, leading to a revised departure time? was there an intention to hold the connecting flight out of LAX?

Maybe qf8 was full in F? or no connecting seats to DFW. or maybe the assumption that passengers would prefer to fly skybeds transcon rather than AA domestic first from JFK to Dallas (are there even flights JFK-DFW at that time, or would the passenger have had to make their way to LGA?)

 

[dajop]

how long was the plane scheduled to be on the groundin JFK under the ordinary schedule? was there a possibility the turn-around could have been completed more quickly, leading to a revised departure time? was there an intention to hold the connecting flight out of LAX?

Ordinary schedule has a 90 min turn around. For a 747, anything shorter than that would surely be extremely optimistic. In any event on 4 June, flightaware shows QF 11 LAX-JFK leaving 3 hrs late.

 

[BD1959]

maybe this is something for Melburnian1!

how long was the plane scheduled to be on the groundin JFK under the ordinary schedule? was there a possibility the turn-around could have been completed more quickly, leading to a revised departure time? was there an intention to hold the connecting flight out of LAX?

Maybe qf8 was full in F? or no connecting seats to DFW. or maybe the assumption that passengers would prefer to fly skybeds transcon rather than AA domestic first from JFK to Dallas (are there even flights JFK-DFW at that time, or would the passenger have had to make their way to LGA?)

"I'm terribly sorry Mr/Mrs Zephyrana, but we have a delay to your departing aircraft. This means you'll miss the scheduled MEL departure out of LAX. Unfortunately, there are no First Class seats available on the alternative we've prepared via Sydney. We've also checked flights via DFW and there are no First seats there either/we have seats but there are no flights to Dallas which will get you there in time for that flight. If you'd like to be home as quickly as possible, we can continue with the alternative Sydney flight which means flying our very comfortable Business Class transpacfic, or we can check availability on tomorrow night's flight if you'd prefer to fly First trans-pacific."

or

"Thank-you, Mr/Mrs Zephyrana, here are your boarding passes for New York/LAX, LAX/Sydney/Melbourne." Glance at BP and customer can't believe eye-balls ...

... which is the preferred method of making the customer aware of the situation?

Regards,

BD

 

[dk4]

Not everyone has a local contact phone number for their overseas destination in the pnr. Similarly not everyone has global roaming on their Australian mobile phone. Not sure what the reservations call out procedure is for delays or class of service downgrades.

I think the QF representatives were empowered to provide suitable alternatives - they didn't exercise the option and just went for the easiest option by handing the pax J class boarding passes & sending him on his way.

My guess, based on my experiences, is that QFi and QFd are polar opposites in how they deal with known/anticipated disruptions -

QFd seems to attempt to talk to you when they anticipate things are about to go pear shaped with an immediate booking. Be that a phone call from a call centre, discussions about options on the ground in the terminal, or even (when departing smaller ports I've had) a phone call from the local terminal manger.

QFi (again IME) will make their own their own assessment of the situation (presumably from their HQ), and then reissue your ticket with the changes made - without discussion, and then send you an email to inform you of the change (you need to then contact them if you are unhappy). QFi seems to prioritise this re-accommodating on QF metal but with service downgrade, as opposed to other alternatives (e.g. In this example, change the connecting flight to LAX or DFW onto a partner airline and keep the passenger in the class of service purchased for the inter-continental flight).

Presumably the rational is two fold (?) as you kind of suggest; 1) it is easier to contact and talk with a domestic passenger (time-zone, mobile coverage, etc) and 2) it removes a third party agent (and the customer) from having to deal with more complex decisions (and alterations) at an international departure port. (And 3, for QFi, it keeps associated costs down?)

But IMO having two different ways of dealing with the same issue (at QFi and QFd) seems to present a confusing proposition to the customer.

 

[BD1959]

My guess, based on my experiences, is that QFi and QFd are polar opposites in how they deal with known/anticipated disruptions -

<snip>

But IMO having two different ways of dealing with the same issue (at QFi and QFd) seems to present a confusing proposition to the customer.

Never used to be. My own experience is very limited - and from a while ago - but the handling by QFi was exemplary.

I was booked MEL-HKG-HEL on a QF ticket and had my own HEL-MAN leg ticketed. MEL-HKG on QF, HKG-HEL-MAN on AY. The inbound QF30 was running late and it was obvious I would miss my AY connection. QF volunteered MEL-HKG-LHR on QF (I said it was a while ago) and LHR-HEL on either BA or AY. I pointed out that they (QF) weren't to know, but my final destination was MAN. QF then ticketed me through to MAN via LHR. All done so that the impact on the Passenger was kept to a minimum. I had no status at the time and my MEL-HKG was originally Y, an upgrade request had come through for MEL-HKG. QF were happy to keep me in J right the way through (obviously UK Domestic have no J).

OK, may have been different because I was in Australia - QF initially spoke with my TA, who suggested it would be easier for QF to speak with me directly. *BUT*, as I stated previously, it was precisely because of this example of IIROPs that I continue to use QF for International bookings whenever feasible. As fare-paying F, I would expect no less proactive service. I may be naive, but I consider one of the reasons QF can charge a premium is because they should handle IIROPs smoothly. If they can't, you may as well book with an airline which doesn't charge the premium.

Regards,

BD

 

[dk4]

...I consider one of the reasons QF can charge a premium is because they should handle IIROPs smoothly.BD

Therein lies the problem really - what is "smoothly"?

Some people (most likely non-AFF posters) might consider the fact that everything was handled behind the scenes - with the "complex" i's dotted and t's crossed, by the time they arrived at JFK T7 (where they expected to depart from), as "smooth". Whereas you, and I , might prefer to be much more involved in the process of rerouting our complex travel arrangements (as your travel agent thankfully pointed out to QF, in your example.)

 

[Red Roo]

I spoke to the FF person who sorted out the points and status credits, and then passed me on to a Customer Care person about a possible refund for the fare difference. The Customer Care person instructed me to fill in the web form and said it will take 7-10 business days for a reply, so I shall see what that brings.

Thank you all for your help!

Sorry I'm so late to join this thread, however I'd appreciate an opportunity to follow up internally.

Please send me a private message with your Frequent Flyer number as reference.

 

[Zephyrana]

QF18 was late departing from Los Angeles. We almost didn't fly at all, as the aircraft and crew hours were apparently very close to being over the limit.

Thank you all for your perspectives and advice. I am not the sort of person who makes a kerfuffle at a check-in counter, though, particularly as I have no idea what my options are or could be, and some comments here seem to verge on blaming me for not kicking up a fuss. I'm new to Qantas, so I'm not a high priority customer, and perhaps there were other passengers who had a longer association with the company or more urgent needs. Qantas did get me home.

That said ... I plan to fly first class to the US 3 or 4 times a year, and Emirates looks pretty nice.

 

[Flying mermaid]

QF18 was late departing from Los Angeles. We almost didn't fly at all, as the aircraft and crew hours were apparently very close to being over the limit.

Thank you all for your perspectives and advice. I am not the sort of person who makes a kerfuffle at a check-in counter, though, particularly as I have no idea what my options are or could be, and some comments here seem to verge on blaming me for not kicking up a fuss. I'm new to Qantas, so I'm not a high priority customer, and perhaps there were other passengers who had a longer association with the company or more urgent needs. Qantas did get me home.

That said ... I plan to fly first class to the US 3 or 4 times a year, and Emirates looks pretty nice.

Do consider giving Red Roo the info requested, so it can get considered properly by Customer Care. Qantas do need to lift their game in this area and the more data points they have the more likely something will be done.

 

[Nizar]

That said ... I plan to fly first class to the US 3 or 4 times a year, and Emirates looks pretty nice.

Indeed. Or even Etihad Apartments

 

[Zephyrana]

Do consider giving Red Roo the info requested, so it can get considered properly by Customer Care. Qantas do need to lift their game in this area and the more data points they have the more likely something will be done.

I have, thank you.

Oh, and I forgot to say that I received an email yesterday apologising for the QF18 delay from LA. There wasn't any explanation for the delay, but perhaps that isn't the place for one.

 

[Flying mermaid]

Indeed. Or even Etihad Apartments

They are on my list to try - very tempting, but not so sure about Etihad on ground if anything goes wrong.....

 

[Zephyrana]

I'm also considering going back to Virgin. My mother loves their transpacific service.

 

[TomVexille]

QF18 was late departing from Los Angeles. We almost didn't fly at all, as the aircraft and crew hours were apparently very close to being over the limit.

Thank you all for your perspectives and advice. I am not the sort of person who makes a kerfuffle at a check-in counter, though, particularly as I have no idea what my options are or could be, and some comments here seem to verge on blaming me for not kicking up a fuss. I'm new to Qantas, so I'm not a high priority customer, and perhaps there were other passengers who had a longer association with the company or more urgent needs. Qantas did get me home.

That said ... I plan to fly first class to the US 3 or 4 times a year, and Emirates looks pretty nice.

Good for you at not being a DYKWIA

It is entirely possible to be polite yet firm in what you want without causing a scene. But not everyone is good at that.

As for being a high priority pax. I would like to think that anyone who has shelled out for F should be a priority to the airline, but what would I know.

 

[Zephyrana]

By way of reference - I just had a look at one-way fares for 8th July on QF18 to LAX and then QF94 to MEL (one-way fares):

First Class Flexible = US$13568 vs Business Class Flexible = US$9733
First Class Saver = US$10318 vs Business Class Saver = US$7458

I've been given a refund of $1473.
This is a lot more than the difference between First Saver, which I bought, and Flexible Business, which Qantas assigned me to.

The Customer Care representative also said she would offer "some points" as compensation, but is looking into it and couldn't give me a number.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I've been given a refund of $1473.
This is a lot more than the difference between First Saver, which I bought, and Flexible Business, which Qantas assigned me to.

The Customer Care representative also said she would offer "some points" as compensation, but is looking into it and couldn't give me a number.

But short of the $3000 you might be entitled to if the delay was within the airline's control (based on First saver->business saver).

Ultimately it depends if you are happy with what they've offered you.

 

[eastwest101]

I've been given a refund of $1473.
This is a lot more than the difference between First Saver, which I bought, and Flexible Business, which Qantas assigned me to.

The Customer Care representative also said she would offer "some points" as compensation, but is looking into it and couldn't give me a number.

Thanks for coming back and posting a result, not sure if its the result that you wanted but hopefully if it is - you are satisfied or if it isn't that you are successful at getting more.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

But short of the $3000 you might be entitled to if the delay was within the airline's control (based on First saver->business saver).

Is $3K the difference in return fares SYD/JFK/SYD or one way?

 

[N860CR]

What is frustrating, from my view anyway, is we have yet another example of foul behavior from Qantas' USA based staff.

During the last downgrade debacle, Qantas/Redroo seemed to shy away from every issue except that "the service received was not what is expected of a premium airline" or whatever the usual line is. We now have an identical situation handled just as poorly by the Qantas USA contract staff. This adds to my experiences with QF contractors across the U.S., who seem to be generally poor. Why has this not been addressed?

 

[Nizar]

What is frustrating, from my view anyway, is we have yet another example of foul behavior from Qantas' USA based staff.

During the last downgrade debacle, Qantas/Redroo seemed to shy away from every issue except that "the service received was not what is expected of a premium airline" or whatever the usual line is. We now have an identical situation handled just as poorly by the Qantas USA contract staff. This adds to my experiences with QF contractors across the U.S., who seem to be generally poor. Why has this not been addressed?

Not sure, but keen to hear Red Roo's response to this.