Flight diverted, who pays hotel?

[karen blancfield]

Qantas have a delay and cancellation policy that sets out reimbursement for hotels - but - it only applies for situations within their control. Not for situations outside their control which are defined in a footnote

“Delays or cancellation outside our control include: weather events, air traffic control issues, industrial action by a third party, security issues or any other unusual or unforeseen circumstances which we cannot control and the consequences of which we could not have avoided.”

Compensation and Refunds Policy | Qantas

Compensation and Refunds Policy | Qantas

www.qantas.com

That’s interesting thanks. They have contacted QF anyway so the ball is in their court now. It’s worth asking the question. Travel insurance, with excess, probably wouldn’t cover a night in a hotel. You’d still be out of pocket.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

That’s interesting thanks. They have contacted QF anyway so the ball is in their court now. It’s worth asking the question. Travel insurance, with excess, probably wouldn’t cover a night in a hotel. You’d still be out of pocket.

I thought the excess was waived for things like delay? The benefit is usually only $200-250 - enough to cover a basic hotel and a meal. Most of the times that doesn’t attract the excess.

 

[equus]

Airlines should have insurance just like we have insurance.

I am sure airlines have insurance for all sorts of things - but covering the costs of passenger delays would never be one of them. Passenger delays are inevitable, and no insurance company is going to offer any sort of reasonable premium. This is simply a cost of doing business that needs to be built into all the other costs.

 

[JohnK]

I am sure airlines have insurance for all sorts of things - but covering the costs of passenger delays would never be one of them. Passenger delays are inevitable, and no insurance company is going to offer any sort of reasonable premium. This is simply a cost of doing business that needs to be built into all the other costs.

Are you saying that passengers take the risk for certain delays?

I was commuting for 10+ years BNE-SYD and not once did I worry about having to cover expenses for weather delays or ATC issues. Admittedly there were not many times that I did have to fly the next day and each time the airline was responsible.

Are we now saying since Covid this has changed and the passenger is now directly responsible for certain delays?

 

[astrosly]

Are you saying that passengers take the risk for certain delays?

I was commuting for 10+ years BNE-SYD and not once did I worry about having to cover expenses for weather delays or ATC issues. Admittedly there were not many times that I did have to fly the next day and each time the airline was responsible.

Are we now saying since Covid this has changed and the passenger is now directly responsible for certain delays?

Insurance companies don't provide corporate policies for events that have a very high likelihood of occurrence for a company in their day-to-day operations. So no insurance company will provide a policy to cover passenger delays for an airline, and similarly no insurance company would provide an insurance policy to a telecommunications company for network outages.

Personal travel insurance policies are different to airline insurance policies, generally because the likelihood of occurrence is different for a passenger vs an airline.

 

[serfty]

Believe EU261 has duty of care (hotels, meals) paid for by the airline for weather related events.

Yes, under xx 261, duty of care may be payable for weather events or any other event irrespective of the circumstances being within the airline's control or not.

The level of care varies depending on the length of the delay.

 

[JohnK]

Insurance companies don't provide corporate policies for events that have a very high likelihood of occurrence for a company in their day-to-day operations. So no insurance company will provide a policy to cover passenger delays for an airline, and similarly no insurance company would provide an insurance policy to a telecommunications company for network outages.

But there are companies that offer reinsurance to insurance companies to cover natural events?

I'm sure there is someone out there that covers every type of insurance necessary.

So back to my point. Airlines (Qantas and Virgin at least) did cover weather and ATC delays. So what's happened since Covid for that stop?

 

[equus]

The point is that the airlines need to cover it as part of their ordinary costs - it is a cost that needs to be built in. No insurance company (or reinsurer) will ever touch airlines for any sort of insurance, as it is sure to come about. There is no risk to be spread here, or scope for the insurer to make money.

All that is happening at the moment is that the airline is trying its best to avoid paying because it comes off their bottom line. If they can make the passenger (or their individual travel insurance provider) pay, then less cost for the airline.

The real issue in these circumstances is the ability to actually find a room - and if you have to self-fund, to pay for it before claiming back from the airline or travel insurance. As there are exceptions to when the airline may be liable, and as they are less generous up front these days, it pays to consider the possible costs, and actually have domestic travel insurance of some sort (often a good credit card policy is fine for this).

 

[karen blancfield]

The point is that the airlines need to cover it as part of their ordinary costs - it is a cost that needs to be built in. No insurance company (or reinsurer) will ever touch airlines for any sort of insurance, as it is sure to come about. There is no risk to be spread here, or scope for the insurer to make money.

All that is happening at the moment is that the airline is trying its best to avoid paying because it comes off their bottom line. If they can make the passenger (or their individual travel insurance provider) pay, then less cost for the airline.

The real issue in these circumstances is the ability to actually find a room - and if you have to self-fund, to pay for it before claiming back from the airline or travel insurance. As there are exceptions to when the airline may be liable, and as they are less generous up front these days, it pays to consider the possible costs, and actually have domestic travel insurance of some sort (often a good credit card policy is fine for this).

The travellers were Australians flying to Christchurch but had to pay a night in Wellington. Just clarifying that it wasn’t a domestic flight.

I’ll report back when they get a response from Qantas.

 

[aikman]

Qantas Passengers "dumped" at Christchurch airport after diverting from Wellington after missing curfew

A few reports here of Qantas not arranging accommodation for delays into NZ.

Unclear though if any of the passengers ever got reimbursement or compensation.

 

[Warks]

Family members had a midday flight to Bali (ex SYD) changed to 0700 which meant staying overnight at an airport motel as coming from the Central Coast at 0100 was not feasible. In this case it's the airlines fault for changing the flight but good luck getting anything out of them - they just said "just come earlier!"

 

[karen blancfield]

UPDATE:

Our friends have been offered 5000 FF points from Qantas, no reimbursement for the hotel. A staff member was on the ground when they landed at Wellington airport, verbally said they could claim up to $250 for the room. The friends were directed to Rydges, queued up and accessed a room at 2am, one of the last rooms available in the hotel.

Qantas advised them to claim on their own insurance.

 

[CaptJCool]

verbally said they could claim up to $250 for the room.

Qantas advised them to claim on their own insurance.

That seems to suggest the following

Not the usual place for this flight to fly so no pre-arrangements In Place even if welly is a JQ/QF Destination

So it’s Welcome to Baku Azerbaijan

14. Events Beyond our Control​

Unless otherwise required by law, such as the Australian Consumer Law, Qantas Holidays and its related bodies corporate do not accept any liability whatsoever for any injury, damage, loss, delay, additional expenses or inconvenience caused directly or indirectly by any events which are beyond its control including weather events, air traffic control issues, industrial action by a third party, security issues or any other unusual and unforeseen circumstance which we cannot control and the consequences of which it could not have avoided.

Ouch

 

[Quickstatus]

“Delays or cancellation outside our control

The problem is who adjudicates whether it is or is not

Seriously who takes out travel insurance for a domestic weekend trip away

Some/Many have an annual TI policy

 

[CaptJCool]

Flight cancellations and delays: What are my rights? | CHOICE

Are you entitled to a refund or compensation when a flight is cancelled or delayed, when baggage is lost or when seats are overbooked?

www.choice.com.au

Flight delays and cancellations compensation in Australia | CHOICE

Australians are being short-changed when it comes to clear guidance on their rights relating to flight delays and cancellations.

www.choice.com.au

The two key points
booked a ticket from Oz to Christchurch
The airline needs to get you to Christchurch however that eventuates even if with an unexpected diversion to Wellington on another “island” making a bus trip next to impossible

It’s Upto them

That said inside/outside control makes one wonder why the flight even took off when getting In Before curfew was a serious risk and going to be accentuated by “unanticipated bad weather”

Inside control
QF looks like $200 a night (so the &250 prob right
Outside control
QF Upto $200

Looks like they’re turning themselves inside out to get out of “paying anything”

 

[Quickstatus]

Looks like they’re turning themselves inside out to get out of “paying anything”

The bundle of rights does not include landing at the booked airport
Isnt an arrival into the country close enough?

 

[CaptJCool]

The bundle of rights does not include landing at the booked airport
Isnt an arrival into the country is close enough?

We ditched you “across the ditch”
What more do you expect ?!?

 

[dajop]

It's worth noting that the part of the "Compensation and Refunds" page on the Qantas website, dealing with "Delay or cancellation outside our control" (as shown below) was there in the 2018 version, as displayed in the Wayback Machine, but is absent in the current version of the Qantas website. The table disappeared somewhere between Oct 8 2019 and Apr 11 2020.

In summary, before 2020 QF passengers were entitled to one night hotel (if booked by Qantas) or up to AUD $200 reimbursement (if booked by the passenger). After 2020, nothing.

Compensation and Refunds Policy | Qantas

Compensation and Refunds Policy | Qantas

web.archive.org

 

[anyonebutqantas]

This is why it helps to have the benefit of multiple TI policies.

 

[adammarcos]

Asking for a friend and I don’t have many details but their flight to Christchurch was diverted to Wellington due to fog, they had to pay for a hotel. Does this seem right? Nox Vidmate VLC

It should be possible to make a claim with the airline and if that fails then try travel insurance.