Flying Emirates? Start Training Now........

[moa999]

Agree that Emirates response was very poor (and they had clearly not really read the complaint)..

However as others have said bus gates unfortunately do happen from time to time at busy airports (I have been fortunate at DXB, but have had them at SYD, JFK, LHR and even SIN).
Depending on where the parking bay is - the journey can unfortunately take some time, and Dubai does have a habit of being particularly hot
(mind you is still better than the old LCCT at KUL where it was common to have a 250m walk outside in steamy conditions to get to the plane stairs, mind you that was not on Emirates)

It does appear that you had to stand on the bus -- lesson for next time - tell the airline person that you need to sit and wait for the next bus etc.

My wife was unable to carry her luggage up and I had to carry it and mine up as well.
My wife was dizzy and exhausted by the time she got to the top. I barely made it up as I have a weak leg due to bulged discs in my spine, and almost felt like I was about to fall backwards when I got to the top. And my wife also wound up with a a very painful knee from an old injury which had previously subsided

Again if you think you need assistance - wait and ask for it.
This is indeed one reason that airlines try and have weight limits for carry-on baggage, as occasionally for reasons outside their control stairs need to be used.

We had felt no ill effects from flying in the previous flights to Kuala Lumpur and later to Dubai. But suddenly, after the bus trip and stair climb we both got extremely swollen ankles which didn't start reducing in size till four days later.
When the plane landed I had extreme difficulty putting my slip-on shoes back on. Yes, people in their 20s to early 50s might not have a problem, but I opine that such an experience may well effect the health, well being and possibly be hazardous to the life of people older than us.

I actually very much doubt that swelling would be cause by a short walk up some stairs...
It is more likely caused by lack of activity on the flight - and can indeed be a sign of DVT
Foot swelling during air travel: A concern? - Mayo Clinic

It is very important to walk around during flight and move your ankles -- and frankly generally a good idea not to remove shoes (albeit I also ignore this)

 

[clifford]

(mind you is still better than the old LCCT at KUL where it was common to have a 250m walk outside in steamy conditions to get to the plane stairs, mind you that was not on Emirates)

Slightly O/T, but I think the old LCCT at KUL was better in many respects than the new terminal at KUL. 250m is but a short distance when compared with the new terminal, and everything required was in close proximity and security checks were done once, not multiple times. Granted, a short walk in a humid climate may not be to everyone's taste, but it was a short walk and generally protected from the elements. The train service between terminals is however a definite advantage.

 

[Renato1]

The op should book a wheelchair if walking up aircraft stairs causes this much grief

It might help if you read what I wrote.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

Yes - I mentioned I took that flight last year in my first reply. We thought we were never going to get to the plane. From memory the return flight was nowhere near the same but could be wrong - we might just have been prepared for it.

I've done the Dubai Venice route quite a few times, and last time they put me on a short bus trip was when they were building large parts of the airport back in 2007. Two years ago, one just walked onto the plane from the terminal gate. Talk about going backwards.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

Yes - I mentioned I took that flight last year in my first reply. We thought we were never going to get to the plane. From memory the return flight was nowhere near the same but could be wrong - we might just have been prepared for it.

A way to look at this is to pretty much apply the same rules apply on a plane as you would on the ground (in your general day-to-day affairs).

If you, a passenger, decide to physically remove someone sitting in your seat, you may be the one guilty of an offense rather than the passenger who's taken your seat. This applies even if you have paid for a particular seat. If an airline has failed in its contractual obligation to you, you can't take matters in to your own hands. Just as on the ground - you can only act reasonably.

If you refuse to sit down, in contravention of a crew member instruction directly related to the safety of the aircraft (ie we want to taxi and the cabin must be secure), again you could be the one escorted off the plane if the crew deems you to be an unacceptable risk.

The airline owes you a duty of care to have a safe environment on board. At the end of the day, no one can force you to fly - but if you decide to disembark without a good reason, the airline could come after you for the cost involved for the delay, or decide they don't want to carry you again.

If a crime has been committed, that obviously changes the situation. Seat poaching is unlikely to be a crime. But the range of actions resulting from that poaching (interactions with other passengers, or failing to comply with crew instructions) could well turn into one.




I'm not immediately aware of a law actually requiring passengers to be in any particular seat for take-off and landing. However, it depends why a passenger(s) have been allocated the seats they have. If it is a safety issue (for example weight and balance), or a security issue, passengers must comply with crew-member instructions. Some airlines may ask passengers to return to their allocated seats during meal times (for example on flights where meals and beverages aren't free and may be distributed based on where a passenger is supposed to be seated).

"Please return to your seats for landing" doesn't necessarily mean 'return to the seat printed on your boarding pass', it means - take 'a' seat (any seat).

Yes, well that is what I'd do if I were on the ground. Physically remove the person in my seat. That person would then have the option of standing around or going to their seat.

Take another possibility. People, especially in Dubai, are always taking telephoto shots of my wife. Suppose one now decided to take my seat and sit next to her. Am I really going to let the airline staff decide that I should sit elsewhere?
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

Yes - I mentioned I took that flight last year in my first reply. We thought we were never going to get to the plane. From memory the return flight was nowhere near the same but could be wrong - we might just have been prepared for it.

How many airlines use buses as part of normal operations for aircraft the size of a 777 or A380 at an airport the size of DXB though?
It's quite common to take a long bus ride at DXB.

The buses at DXB suck. I arrived into DXB on an A380 yesterday and we had to take buses back to the terminal. It took a long time just to get off the plane, let alone drive the 15 minutes to the terminal.

Yes, they suck - they may be air conditioned, but that just brings the temperature down to high 20s or low 30s.
Regards,
Renato

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes, well that is what I'd do if I were on the ground. Physically remove the person in my seat. That person would then have the option of standing around or going to their seat.

Take another possibility. People, especially in Dubai, are always taking telephoto shots of my wife. Suppose one now decided to take my seat and sit next to her. Am I really going to let the airline staff decide that I should sit elsewhere?
Regards,
Renato

As I said, if you physically remove someone from a seat, it is you that is committing the offence. You will be the one removed from the aircraft. There is little question on that. Whether the other person is also removed would be up to the airline.

If we take your possible example and someone sits next to your wife... again you can't physically remove them. As a gentleman and concerned husband, you would swap seats with your wife and sit there, not her. Or you would both sit somewhere else together, or both disembark (if it was possible and safe to do so).

 

[Renato1]

Yes - I mentioned I took that flight last year in my first reply. We thought we were never going to get to the plane. From memory the return flight was nowhere near the same but could be wrong - we might just have been prepared for it.

As others have said, avoiding an airline because they used a bus is not the solution. No one can predict a 100% whether the aircraft will get a remote stand or not.

Ask for special assistance and I am sure the airlines will be happy to help.

My wife looked around for someone to help, and there was no one there.

As I indicated earlier, it is all very easy to say that help is available after the event - but at the time the actual event was sprung on us without warning, and we had no knowledge of how onerous it would be. Also, one can search fares and note that Emirates is far from an inexpensive carrier. What exactly is one paying a premium price for?
Regards,
Renato

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What exactly is one paying a premium price for?
Regards,
Renato

You are paying for schedule, convenience, on board service, on board amenity, for the 'brand', and for frequent flyer points (etc). To an extent, with a full service legacy carrier you are also paying for ground services, such as special assistance, which may be less well resourced if flying a low cost carrier.

However - there is nothing that you are paying for in that premium for a jet-bridge v a gate. The Venice flight does operate from the main terminal via jetbridge on some days by the look of it. But as a 777 there is a greater chance you will get a bus. You and Pushka happened to be in that situation.

You equally pay a premium for carriers such as British Airways and Qantas. And both those airlines will use bus gates at airports around the world.

 

[Renato1]

Yes - I mentioned I took that flight last year in my first reply. We thought we were never going to get to the plane. From memory the return flight was nowhere near the same but could be wrong - we might just have been prepared for it.

Agree that Emirates response was very poor (and they had clearly not really read the complaint)..

However as others have said bus gates unfortunately do happen from time to time at busy airports (I have been fortunate at DXB, but have had them at SYD, JFK, LHR and even SIN).
Depending on where the parking bay is - the journey can unfortunately take some time, and Dubai does have a habit of being particularly hot
(mind you is still better than the old LCCT at KUL where it was common to have a 250m walk outside in steamy conditions to get to the plane stairs, mind you that was not on Emirates)

It does appear that you had to stand on the bus -- lesson for next time - tell the airline person that you need to sit and wait for the next bus etc.




Again if you think you need assistance - wait and ask for it.
This is indeed one reason that airlines try and have weight limits for carry-on baggage, as occasionally for reasons outside their control stairs need to be used.



I actually very much doubt that swelling would be cause by a short walk up some stairs...
It is more likely caused by lack of activity on the flight - and can indeed be a sign of DVT
Foot swelling during air travel: A concern? - Mayo Clinic

It is very important to walk around during flight and move your ankles -- and frankly generally a good idea not to remove shoes (albeit I also ignore this)

We had a five hour stop in Dubai airport, and were fine when we got to the gate. As I said, we've done lots of travel, and never wound up with swollen feet like we got. And we have never had such a ridiculously long bus trip before. For us, the one-to-one correspondence makes us draw the inevitable conclusion of cause and effect.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

Also, sorry for the tardy responses. I started this thread on a laptop in Budapest, but now am on a mobile phone in Italy, where the connection can be erratic some days.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

Latest response from Emirates follows.
Regards,
Renato

Dear Mr Alessio,
Thank you for your recent correspondence.

The events that you have described are being looked into and one of our Customer Affairs Officers will write to you once our review is complete.

The review itself may involve a number of operational departments, and possibly third-party providers, therefore our response to you may take up to 30 days. Please be assured that we will do all possible to reply inside 30 days.
In any future correspondence with us, please quote the above reference.

Thank you for taking the time and trouble to write to us.
Yours sincerely,
Customer Affairs Australasia
Emirates Airline

 

[TomVexille]

To be entirely honest that's far more of a response then I expected you to get. I'm still sceptical that you'll get more than that however.

 

[artemis]

We had a five hour stop in Dubai airport, and were fine when we got to the gate. As I said, we've done lots of travel, and never wound up with swollen feet like we got. And we have never had such a ridiculously long bus trip before. For us, the one-to-one correspondence makes us draw the inevitable conclusion of cause and effect.
Regards,
Renato

I believe this would be best described as anecdotal evidence (level 4) and the statistical analysis applied within is not adequate and should be rejected.

Yes, it wasn't the best experience. Yes, it was uncomfortable. Try not to let it ruin the rest of your holiday. It's all part of the rich and varied tapestry of travel and at the very least will give you a story to tell when you return. Though if this is the story that defines your trip, well then, I'm not sure what you have been doing in Venice and Budapest.

It's unlikely Emirates will give you a response you desire. Though I am curious as to what do you think they'll do? Upgrade you? Because I will point out that even F and J class passengers have to get on a bus and drive the same distance and climb the same height to the plane.

FWIW, I like seeing the outside of the plane from the tarmac - it's incredible to see just how big the A380 is! Though I do like the direct boarding from the lounge too.

All the best with the remainder of your trip...

 

[JessicaTam]

To be entirely honest that's far more of a response then I expected you to get. I'm still sceptical that you'll get more than that however.

Indeed, a bit of a form letter.

Unfortunately busses are a fact of flying. When I flew TK out of IST I think the bus drove past the same plane three times (well, it seemed like it) before finding ours.

Renato, I would suggest always asking for assistance should you fly EK again. You can always cancel it if you find you are not being bussed.

 

[beardoc]

Thanks for sharing the story.

I think the general view of people here is that you're unlikely to find support from other people here because it's not clear what you would want them to do to prevent it happening again. Your emails to them are unclear.

In busy airports, it is a reality that not all flights can get a gate. All airlines do this - I've been on bussed gates with Qatar, Qantas, American, British Airways, Iberia and S7. You're not going to be able to guarantee that you will never have a bussed gate in the future on any airline.

At any time if you had asked for assistance, then you might have had to wait, but it would have been provided. Had you asked for assistance in carrying your bags up the stairs, they would have been able to do it after a delay. Even if partway up the stairs you decided that you couldn't make it, the appropriate thing would have been to put your bags down, grab hold of the rail and then ask for assistance, and it would have been provided, albeit with a slight delay.

From what I can work out, you were concerned about the temperature inside the buses. Was the bus air conditioned? You could ask that they investigate doing this in future if it was not as a comfort and safety measure.

Things that can be done if you let staff know that you are unable to climb the stairs include loading you through the catering entrance, or getting ramps put up. But for that, you would need to tell them rather than push on.

Your ankle swelling (particularly if it's bilateral) are unlikely to be just from the climbing the stairs and are more related to the hydrostatic pressures on your legs in a low pressure environment. Again, the aircraft can't be pressurised to sea level pressures at normal altitudes, so you're unlikely to get the airline to fix this. Wearing pressure bandages and keeping your legs elevated during flight can help - removing your shoes probably did not help.

We're normally a fairly understanding bunch of people here on AFF and I can personally understand your frustration at the difficulties that you experienced. However, I'd like to ask you in light of the fact that help would have been available to board the aircraft if you'd asked for it, and that you can't guarantee that a non-bussed gate can be assigned on any flight, what exactly are you asking the airline to do by writing to them? Do you want compensation? What in your mind would make it right?

 

[Renato1]

Yes - I mentioned I took that flight last year in my first reply. We thought we were never going to get to the plane. From memory the return flight was nowhere near the same but could be wrong - we might just have been prepared for it.

I believe this would be best described as anecdotal evidence (level 4) and the statistical analysis applied within is not adequate and should be rejected.

Yes, it wasn't the best experience. Yes, it was uncomfortable. Try not to let it ruin the rest of your holiday. It's all part of the rich and varied tapestry of travel and at the very least will give you a story to tell when you return. Though if this is the story that defines your trip, well then, I'm not sure what you have been doing in Venice and Budapest.

It's unlikely Emirates will give you a response you desire. Though I am curious as to what do you think they'll do? Upgrade you? Because I will point out that even F and J class passengers have to get on a bus and drive the same distance and climb the same height to the plane.

FWIW, I like seeing the outside of the plane from the tarmac - it's incredible to see just how big the A380 is! Though I do like the direct boarding from the lounge too.

All the best with the remainder of your trip...

What I expect them to do is implement a policy such that people who may be at risk are not ambushed in the manner that I opine we were.

It is all very well telling us after the event that there are actions we could have taken. The important thing is that people who may be at risk of consequences to their health be advised at the very least at the gate, and preferably prior to ticket purchase.

I've plenty of other events on this trip to keep me amused. Lousy waits for Ryanair flights, nearly having two confrontations at Treviso airport within 10 minutes, lodging a complaint with my travel agent about the actions of the Budapest hotel first night I arrived. But I am currently enjoying big meals in Munich.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

Yes - I mentioned I took that flight last year in my first reply. We thought we were never going to get to the plane. From memory the return flight was nowhere near the same but could be wrong - we might just have been prepared for it.

Thanks for sharing the story.

I think the general view of people here is that you're unlikely to find support from other people here because it's not clear what you would want them to do to prevent it happening again. Your emails to them are unclear.

In busy airports, it is a reality that not all flights can get a gate. All airlines do this - I've been on bussed gates with Qatar, Qantas, American, British Airways, Iberia and S7. You're not going to be able to guarantee that you will never have a bussed gate in the future on any airline.

At any time if you had asked for assistance, then you might have had to wait, but it would have been provided. Had you asked for assistance in carrying your bags up the stairs, they would have been able to do it after a delay. Even if partway up the stairs you decided that you couldn't make it, the appropriate thing would have been to put your bags down, grab hold of the rail and then ask for assistance, and it would have been provided, albeit with a slight delay.

From what I can work out, you were concerned about the temperature inside the buses. Was the bus air conditioned? You could ask that they investigate doing this in future if it was not as a comfort and safety measure.

Things that can be done if you let staff know that you are unable to climb the stairs include loading you through the catering entrance, or getting ramps put up. But for that, you would need to tell them rather than push on.

Your ankle swelling (particularly if it's bilateral) are unlikely to be just from the climbing the stairs and are more related to the hydrostatic pressures on your legs in a low pressure environment. Again, the aircraft can't be pressurised to sea level pressures at normal altitudes, so you're unlikely to get the airline to fix this. Wearing pressure bandages and keeping your legs elevated during flight can help - removing your shoes probably did not help.

We're normally a fairly understanding bunch of people here on AFF and I can personally understand your frustration at the difficulties that you experienced. However, I'd like to ask you in light of the fact that help would have been available to board the aircraft if you'd asked for it, and that you can't guarantee that a non-bussed gate can be assigned on any flight, what exactly are you asking the airline to do by writing to them? Do you want compensation? What in your mind would make it right?

As I said in my previous response, it is all very nice getting advice getting advice from them and you after the event. Duty of Care requires it being given prior to what in my opinion was an ambush.

A relative is flying through Dubai in a couple of days time. She is 74. I've passed on this information to her. I suspect that prior to that she had as much advice from the travel agent and airline as I had received.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Pushka]

Hi Renato
I am just wondering how Emirates might have recognised you and your partner as people who were at risk? You are about my age and to be honest if someone approached me and asked if I would be ok during the bus trip to the plane I would actually be offended.

 

[mannej]

Has the OP mentioned what class they were traveling in on the 777?