Flying in Europe

[harvyk]

The fact that they even opened a discussion about paying for toilet use would be enough for me. I don't generally have a problem with user-pays applying to many things, however paying for toilet access might be one step too far.

Pay for toilet access is pretty common Europe. Most public toilets are either coin operated doors to enter, and at Kings Cross station they have proper turnstiles set up to access the toilets.

So whilst it might seem funny to us over here in AU, over there it would simply be another place where leaving a deposit is going to cost you.

 

[Ausbt]

It was widely reported at the time that he was serious about the toilet charge. Standing pax, on the other hand, would no doubt create a bunch of drama for CASA, the FAA etc so unlikely. Of course any idiot can see that you can combine the two and you wouldn't even need a separate toilet at all for male pax ! Segregated standing by gender - light bulb moment really.

 

[BCons]

The absolute best website for researching rail travel: The man in row 61.

This is also handy for unfamiliar territory: Rome 2 Rio.

As for flying in Europe, as you observe, its nothing special, especially in J (for what you pay). Really nothing relating to Virgin (except Alitalia), so would go on convenience etc. With security etc times and relative short distances, rail almost as efficient as flying.

So we are headed to Europe in a few months time for a holiday and am trying to work out how best to get around. Flying in Europe really seems like a cross between Tigerair and a horse and cart! From what I can see even business class use the exact same seats as economy, and the food in business class seems like garbage?

So for those of you who have done it what can you recommend-which airlines are the best and would you bother with business class? Or would you recommend perhaps using rail as an alternative?

Not sure what countries we will be visting yet buy we fly into LHR, then want to make our way to France, then from there we are open at this stage-maybe Italy, then over to Croatia, then depart home via Zurich.

p.s Im Platinum so any airlines that I can use this status with to advantage would be great.

VA plat gets you next to nothing but try Alitalia, maybe for an airport lounge ? Otherwise forget flying intra-EU and take a train. In addition to the man in Seat 61, load up the trainlineEU app, set up an acct with tnem and then searching/booking is easy. You'll just as likely take a train from major city station to get out to the airport anyway - cud be half way to yr next destination by the time you hv got out to th airport and been thru the rigmarole of check-in, security etc.

 

[Renato1]

I've only flown Ryanair for one round trip, paid the money for the front seats on each leg, and we had excellent flights from Venice/Treviso to Budapest and back - although I was disppointed that the can of PepsiMax I bought on the plane wasn't really cool.

Worst flight I have ever had was flying to Madrid from Rome on Iberia - my legs were literally jammed into the seat in front of me, making it the most uncomfortable trip ever. My one and only true experience of being a sardine.

I feel too vulnerable using trains in Europe - way too many thieves and scammers around the place (e.g. pretending to be rail officials while their colleagues steal one's suitcases), with the Police not worrying much about them.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Ausbt]

I feel too vulnerable using trains in Europe - way too many thieves and scammers around the place (e.g. pretending to be rail officials while their colleagues steal one's suitcases), with the Police not worrying much about them.
Regards,
Renato

Is that legit? It's been a long time since I've been on continental Europe, but I do recall two of my travelling companions at that time having their bags slashed and stuff stolen (both in Rome). In countless trips since to a lot of places other than Europe, I haven't experienced or heard directly of thefts. Is Europe really a thieves-and-scammers paradise? It makes me determined to basically take nothing of any value at all with me, which aside from phone, wallet and passport might even actually be possible.

 

[RB]

I also want to add to be alert when taking regional trains in Italy. The inter city trains are fine, which are the ones from a major city to a major city but it's the trains to the smaller towns can be a bit dangerous. We were on a regional train and a group of men were planning to rob us. Luckily I speak Italian so I understood them and we quickly moved to the front of the train near the conductor. Apparently there is a huge problem in Italy with regional trains and gangs of youth robbing people , the conductors won't intervene as they have been bashed and robbed too so they are too afraid. If you are going to a small town I would get a bus. Never been so scared, there was 6 of them.

I feel too vulnerable using trains in Europe - way too many thieves and scammers around the place (e.g. pretending to be rail officials while their colleagues steal one's suitcases), with the Police not worrying much about them.
Regards,
Renato

We must have been very fortunate in our train travels. Not disputing that Whole Lotta Moxie endured their experience but I would not be forgoing train travel in Europe, especially rural Italy.
Our worse rail experience was when a fellow passenger was removed not long after we left Amsterdam. If they had been able to preview their removal beforehand I am sure they would not have overindulged in Amsterdam. Two minutes after our unplanned stop at a small town we were on our way & normal service was restored

 

[Cossie]

On the train from Barcelona airport into the centre, apparently I was being "cased" by some locals, the english speaking Spanish guy with me said it was very common and the local police couldn't care less.

I was also told not to put any small bags like day packs on the ground in railway stations, especially if you are by yourself. One person disturbs you and another takes off with your bag.

 

[Renato1]

Is that legit? It's been a long time since I've been on continental Europe, but I do recall two of my travelling companions at that time having their bags slashed and stuff stolen (both in Rome). In countless trips since to a lot of places other than Europe, I haven't experienced or heard directly of thefts. Is Europe really a thieves-and-scammers paradise? It makes me determined to basically take nothing of any value at all with me, which aside from phone, wallet and passport might even actually be possible.

The worst places I've been to have been Rome and Madrid, where it is enfuriating - if while having a cappucino I can easily spot dozens of thieves going back and forth trying to find an easy mark, why can't undercover cops do the same thing?

Within 10 minutes of getting off the train in Naples and catching a bus, I grabbed one guy's hand in my pocket.

My friend was the one who relayed to me the warnings given to him on the train in France to Italy, where it is apparently not uncommon for a woman to be dressed sort of officially, who asks to see your tickets while her companion robs the suitcases placed at one end of the carriage. Again - where are the undercover police to stop this?

I'm now getting too old to be able to handle such thieves, so will either drive or fly over there. Or better yet, stay in places like Croatia where the cops are tough and no one wants to tangle with them - my wife and I feel much safer there than in Italy.
Regards,
Renato

 

[Renato1]

We must have been very fortunate in our train travels. Not disputing that Whole Lotta Moxie endured their experience but I would not be forgoing train travel in Europe, especially rural Italy.
Our worse rail experience was when a fellow passenger was removed not long after we left Amsterdam. If they had been able to preview their removal beforehand I am sure they would not have overindulged in Amsterdam. Two minutes after our unplanned stop at a small town we were on our way & normal service was restored

Obviously, most people go through their European holidays without a problem - else everyone would stop going there, and the governments would actually do something about the problem. I have the advantage (or disadvantage) of having plenty of friends and relatives over there giving me their local knowledge. For example, all of them say I would be nuts to drive into Naples (including my cousin's husband who comes from Naples) - if you know the way, you will be perfectly safe, but if you make a wrong turn, you may wind up bashed and robbed. Similarly, when driving on Autostrada around Naples and stopping at a Service Centre - only go in one at a time, while one guards the car. Apparently, it is not unknown for someone to go to an unattended car and put a small puncture in the tyre. When one then pulls over with a flat tyre 20km down the road, they will also pull up and rob you.
Cheers,
Renato

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Having said that, the fares are much more competitive than what we have in Australia. It's not hard to fly for 2-3 hours and pay less than ~$30 in Y. I've become quite a fan of Easyjet... not so much Ryanair.

And the fares can be equally competitive in business class. Just a few pounds extra for Club Europe as part of a holiday package during BA's sales. A £49 surcharge to Club Europe offered on the cheapest economy fare for flights to Europe ex Gatwick. Just AUD600 to fly Lufthansa open-jaw business IST-LHR//AMS-IST.

Try doing any of those fares in Australia and you'd be up for close to a thousand, if not two or three thousand dollars. The food is arguably better intra-Europe J class, and they have champagne.

Last minute business fares in Europe can be expensive. But planning ahead can mean some real bargains, along with lots of SCs.

 

[grubbidok]

Neither QF or VA have really good Europe options for flight. With flights intra-Europe is one of the few times I'm willing to go budget airline and most of my stuff is now on Easyjet (though the difference between them and the legacies is now virtually non-existent, apart from the fat Easyjet are usually far more convenient for point-to-point flights whereas legacies often require a connection).

But I agree with what many have said. Get out of the flight mindset and do consider trains. We use the trains quite often around Europe and it's a nicer, more convenient and often cheaper way to travel. If it suits your routes overnight trains can be good, some of the sleeper cabins can be quite comfortable. We've used them quite a bit. You save on accommodation (so facotr that into the cost) and to get in to an area early and refreshed. It beats staying at the airport hotel for an early flight. Most train stations in Europe have left luggage so you can usually leave your kit when you arrive and spend the day exploring - you're basically off the train and out into the centre straight away.

Just a word of caution - be wary of using trains as "connections" to other pre-booked travel though. We used Berlin-Paris overnight once to connect with a pre-booked 5pm flight from CDG (train was supposed to get in at 7am). At the Berlin train station we even double-checked - what are the real chances of delays happening? To which the DB rep said "this is a German train, it will almost certainly be on time"* It wasn't on time. It had an 8hr delay due to flooding (and overnight trains have low priority when only single lanes are available) and if our flight hadn't also been delayed 3hrs we would have missed out on a lovely holiday in Iceland. We had discussed getting a flight instead to be safe - even when we were at the train station - but the DB reps insistence it would never be that late and the thought of having a relaxed sleeper experience convinced us to do the train.

*Don't believe the myths about German efficiency. I think I've had more German trains be late than on time. They are super comfortable and convenient though

 

[ellen10]

We most often use Easyjet for inter Europe flights. Good prices, good flights. I always book checked bags, seat selection and early boarding. So worth the 5euro each we paid.
We also use trains lots of times in Europe. Book in advance and get great fares and seat selection, we have never had a problem with thieves on trains. I did read a hint from someone saying they take a bike lock to hook around their bags onto the racks, for piece of mind. Haven't tried myself.
Our only experience of a pickpocket was in a crowded lane in Split Croatia, smart dressed women tried to lift my husbands wallet, he felt it and grabbed her hand, she took off.

 

[vmile]

We did a few Alitalia flights last year to get Status credits and Plat advantages.

Just do not do it. Again. Just do not do it.Never again for us. They are that bad, and many of their regional lounges have been closed.

SC earn is terrible.

Easyjet are fine. Just check twice their conditions and charges for extra baggage.

 

[Magoo]

I love European trains, have used them for over 30 years, and haven't been aware of any safety issues. Perhaps now, as an elderly dame, I'll have to be more careful. Seat61.com is my bible.

I don't have any real problem with flying in Europe, either. As a previous poster said, one of my worst flights was Iberia - out of Madrid. Seriously cramped. I just pay for preferred seating, luggage and anything else I want. Although, in December, I actually opted for a 4 hour bus trip, rather than face the rigmarole of getting to the airport, waiting around, waiting for luggage for the short flight from Tallinn to Riga. The trains currently do not work well for that trip. I was surprised how comfortable the bus was, watched a movie, no problem bringing drinks on board.

 

[kelvedon]

Pay for toilet access is pretty common Europe. Most public toilets are either coin operated doors to enter, and at Kings Cross station they have proper turnstiles set up to access the toilets.

So whilst it might seem funny to us over here in AU, over there it would simply be another place where leaving a deposit is going to cost you.

As of next year, they'll be free in British train stations.

Network Rail to end toilet charges in 2019

 

[Cossie]

I love European trains, have used them for over 30 years, and haven't been aware of any safety issues. Perhaps now, as an elderly dame, I'll have to be more careful. Seat61.com is my bible.

I don't have any real problem with flying in Europe, either. As a previous poster said, one of my worst flights was Iberia - out of Madrid. Seriously cramped. I just pay for preferred seating, luggage and anything else I want. Although, in December, I actually opted for a 4 hour bus trip, rather than face the rigmarole of getting to the airport, waiting around, waiting for luggage for the short flight from Tallinn to Riga. The trains currently do not work well for that trip. I was surprised how comfortable the bus was, watched a movie, no problem bringing drinks on board.

I'm surprised by the Iberia issues, I haven't had a problem with Iberia, but their 'second' airline Vueling, I will not fly them ever again, if I can avoid it. I booked a B.A. flight which ended up being on Vuelieng, never again....

 

[jkbaus]

In Aug 2016 I flew Iberia J between Madrid and Lisbon as last leg of award ticket. It was fine but I wouldn't pay for a J ticket.
In Sep 2016 I did Porto to Barcelona on Vueling. I wasn't expecting much but it was fine as well.

 

[Mattg]

I think Iberia is OK, but I will never again fly Iberia Express. The legroom on their aircraft was the worst I've ever experienced, and I've flown Ryanair, Jetstar, Tiger, Air Asia etc.

On the subject of Iberia, that's another airline where not all availability is actually shown on the Qantas website. For example, there's plenty of Y/J availability from MAD to LIS but it never seems to appear on line. If you call up, the call centre people can see the seats.

 

[RooFlyer]

I have a spare weekend coming up in the UK; Nothing I really want to see there ( been there too many times) so I decided I would go LCC to somewhere in Europe for the heck of it.

After researching the costs, logistics destinations etc, I've ended up on BA to Toulouse (whY).

I couldn't be stuffed doing the trip out and back to whatever small airport was going to be used by Ryanair, the BA fare was only a little more, much more flexible and I even earn a few points and SCs. I have low expectations, and am prepared to be disappointed.

 

[kelvedon]

I have a spare weekend coming up in the UK; Nothing I really want to see there ( been there too many times) so I decided I would go LCC to somewhere in Europe for the heck of it.

After researching the costs, logistics destinations etc, I've ended up on BA to Toulouse (whY).

I couldn't be stuffed doing the trip out and back to whatever small airport was going to be used by Ryanair, the BA fare was only a little more, much more flexible and I even earn a few points and SCs. I have low expectations, and am prepared to be disappointed.

Is an Airbus factory tour on the itinerary?

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