Flying Safe - Medics Onboard Qantas

[CaviAck]

Hi everyone,

I'm a dentist to be, feel free to call me Dr. CaviAck.

Ok fun and games over and back to being serious, very interesting read so far. I do hope this could turn into something like Ask the Pilot.

I am however very happy to step up in the event someone calls for assistance in regards to a toothache.

On my Rex flight to BHQ on Sunday night at least 9 of the 22 pax were medicos.
Would have been interesting if a medical incident.

Good chance it could end up with one of the medicos treating/diagnosing him/herself.

 

[JohnM]

Hi everyone,

I'm a dentist to be, feel free to call me Dr. CaviAck.

OT and no disrespect intended, but I'm very curious about the title 'Dr' for a dentist. This was traditionally never the case but it seems to have been taken up by dentists, albeit inconsistently (dentists that I know (older generation, I admit) don't use the honorific). I've guessed that it's an American thing that's crept in - but that's entirely a guess.

Has this been formally approved by some body with appropriate standing? - eg. a Gov't regulatory body (ie. not talking about a dentists' association.) Or do you graduate with the title 'Dr' conferred by the university?

Please don't take this the wrong way - it is a genuinely a question that I've wanted to know the answer to for some time because dentists were previously never 'Dr'.

 

[Hvr]

On my Rex flight to BHQ on Sunday night at least 9 of the 22 pax were medicos.
Would have been interesting if a medical incident.

Or it might have been a case of physician heal thyself.

 

[CaviAck]

OT and no disrespect intended, but I'm very curious about the title 'Dr' for a dentist. This was traditionally never the case but it seems to have been taken up by dentists, albeit inconsistently (dentists that I know (older generation, I admit) don't use the honorific). I've guessed that it's an American thing that's crept in - but that's entirely a guess.

Has this been formally approved by some body with appropriate standing? - eg. a Gov't regulatory body (ie. not talking about a dentists' association.) Or do you graduate with the title 'Dr' conferred by the university?

Please don't take this the wrong way - it is a genuinely a question that I've wanted to know the answer to for some time because dentists were previously never 'Dr'.

No disrespect taken, I'm still a student after all. And from my interaction it also does seem like the older generation of dentists don't use the title when introducing themselves to patients and merely just go by first name. I'm always happy to discuss the relation of a dentist in the medical hierarchy considering the (from what I've been told) "apparent" under-appreciation of dentists, considering the sort of tasks we're now expected to deal with especially in rural/remote areas. (In a bit of a tangent, as a student I am the lowest of the low.. my only claim is being of a higher year level than certain other dental students, thumbing my nose at you Labsley )

I'm not aware of any official body conferring the title to dentists, it's a social grace given to dentists as it is a social grace given to a non-PhD doctor (AFAIK or am aware). Our closest claim to being a doctor is the fact we teach people how to brush.... On the flip side we do treat and heal patients, the disease and conditions we work with may not be as sever or significant as what many medical doctors deal with, it is still a fact that shouldn't be lost in the argument between doctors and dentists and who is or isn't superior. There is a field in which medical doctors and dentists overlap but mostly we deal with two completely different fields of work that aren't really comparable IMO in regards to the general practice area.

I'm not sure where or how dentists came to using the title 'Dr' but it does seem most of us are plastering it on advertising and reaping the benefits because the title is not regulated in Australia other than when advertising it must be made clear that we are not medical doctors. Many patients refer to us as 'Doc' or 'Dr' and many also feel that if we don't use the title we don't get the respect from patients or patients won't listen to us because we don't imply this social conception of superiority because we're a "doctor". From my understanding the title 'Dr' is not "conferred" upon anyone other than a PhD graduate, but I'm fairly naive in how anyone other than a dental student graduates.

I'm happy to be corrected on any of this, I'm not going to say I'm an expert in using the title "Doctor" because I really don't like the title myself. I'm more than likely to just tell my patients to refer to me by first name and drop the title unless I feel an absolute need to enforce my position as a person who is taking care of someone's health or someone who is in charge of the treatment plan when coordinating with a third party.

That being said I once had to contact the Public Guardians and they addressed me the status of Dr CaviAck even though I clearly made out that I was only a student practicing in a teaching facility. So who knows who gives out the title of 'Doctor', I think it's now society thinking anyone looking after something health wise they're a doctor of some kind. Chiropractors I think are the latest lot leveraging into the title.

 

[JohnM]

No disrespect taken, I'm still a student after all. And from my interaction it also does seem like the older generation of dentists don't use the title when introducing themselves to patients and merely just go by first name. I'm always happy to discuss the relation of a dentist in the medical hierarchy considering the (from what I've been told) "apparent" under-appreciation of dentists, considering the sort of tasks we're now expected to deal with especially in rural/remote areas.

I'm not aware of any official body conferring the title to dentists, it's a social grace given to dentists as it is a social grace given to a non-PhD doctor (AFAIK or am aware). Our closest claim to being a doctor is the fact we teach people how to brush.... On the flip side we do treat and heal patients, the disease and conditions we work with may not be as sever or significant as what many medical doctors deal with, it is still a fact that shouldn't be lost in the argument between doctors and dentists and who is or isn't superior.

I'm not sure where or how dentists came to using the title 'Dr' but it does seem most of us are plastering it on advertising and reaping the benefits because the title is not regulated in Australia other than when advertising it must be made clear that we are not medical doctors. Many patients refer to us as 'Doc' or 'Dr' and many also feel that if we don't use the title we don't get the respect from patients or patients won't listen to us because we don't imply this social conception of superiority because we're a "doctor". From my understanding the title 'Dr' is not "conferred" upon anyone other than a PhD graduate.

I'm happy to be corrected on any of this, I'm not going to say I'm an expert in using the title "Doctor" because I really don't like the title myself. I'm more than likely to just tell my patients to refer to me by first name and drop the title unless I feel an absolute need to enforce my position as a person who is taking care of someone's health or someone who is in charge of the treatment plan when coordinating with a third party.

That being said I once had to contact the Public Guardians and they conferred me the status of Dr CaviAck even though I clearly made out that I was only a student practicing in a teaching facility. So who knows who gives out the title of 'Doctor', I think it's now society thinking anyone looking after something health wise they're a doctor of some kind. Chiropractors I think are the latest lot leveraging into the title.

Thanks for this.

I really do suspect that it is something that has infiltrated from LOTFAP - as well as the 'respect' element that you mention being some sort of rationalisation for it.

Chiropractors and veterinarians are both on the bandwagon, I think you will find. I hope that pharmacists are not next .

My personal view is that it's becoming absurd. (No disrespect intended to you or anyone else personally.)

 

[CaviAck]

Thanks for this.

I really do suspect that it is something that has infiltrated from LOTFAP - as well as the 'respect' element that you mention being some sort of rationalisation for it.

Chiropractors and veterinarians are both on the bandwagon, I think you will find. I hope that pharmacists are not next .

My personal view is that it's becoming absurd. (No disrespect intended to you or anyone else personally.)

You are very welcome JohnM.

Oh please let the pharmacists jump onto the bandwagon, we dentists will finally have someone to pass on the big bad bullying from the doctors! hhahahah. Ok not really, I agree it's starting to become absurd at the number of people claiming rights to the title 'Dr'.

I wouldn't be surprised if it is infiltrating from LOTFAP, considering the dental qualifications in Australia, as well as the medical, are switching from BDS/BDSc to DDS/DMD and MBBS to MD (or whatever other variant the uni decides they want to be special with).

 

[Princess Fiona]

OT but this garnered me a few re-tweets a couple of days ago JohnM courtesy of the brilliant Cathy Wilcox

 

[JohnM]

OT but this garnered me a few re-tweets a couple of days ago JohnM courtesy of the brilliant Cathy Wilcox
View attachment 47411

Notice the bow-tie?

My motto: never trust a man who wears a bow-tie (tuxedo-type excluded) . Wilcox is on-song...

 

[CaviAck]

Notice the bow-tie?

My motto: never trust a man who wears a bow-tie (tuxedo-type excluded) . Wilcox is on-song...

Hey hey hey Dr W. Masters wore bow ties!

 

[prozac]

Hey hey hey Dr W. Masters wore bow ties!

I'll look into it...

 

[JohnM]

Hey hey hey Dr W. Masters wore bow ties!

Indeed - and would you have trusted him .

 

[Major]

Hey hey hey Dr W. Masters wore bow ties!

So does Dr Donald Mallard (Ducky)

 

[jb747]

Any decision to divert (or do anything else with the aircraft, such as change altitude) rests solely with the Captain. End of story.

I will always go with the advice of Medlink over any person helping out. They have information on actual facilities available at various ports...Bangkok is way better than Hyderabad.

But...the pilots are always aware that whilst we have ONE sick person on board, any diversion entails an element of risk that involves hundreds. Many diversion options are relatively backwater runways, that we only really want to consider when the aircraft is sick, not the contents. A real example...passenger having a heart attack (and a couple of doctors helping), whilst on the way to HK, and not far from Manila (just love that place). 230 passengers on a 767, so NO access to Medlink. HK typhoon on the way, and weather pretty bad. Manila...typhoon very close, weather really bad.

What's your choice?

 

[CaviAck]

Indeed - and would you have trusted him .

I doubt I would ever have needed his services as he was an OB/GYN so there's no need to have trusted him.

So does Dr Donald Mallard (Ducky)

I complete forgot about Ducky, some NCIS fan I am then eh?

 

[Quickstatus]

Any decision to divert (or do anything else with the aircraft, such as change altitude) rests solely with the Captain. End of story.

I will always go with the advice of Medlink over any person helping out. They have information on actual facilities available at various ports...Bangkok is way better than Hyderabad.

But...the pilots are always aware that whilst we have ONE sick person on board, any diversion entails an element of risk that involves hundreds. Many diversion options are relatively backwater runways, that we only really want to consider when the aircraft is sick, not the contents. A real example...passenger having a heart attack (and a couple of doctors helping), whilst on the way to HK, and not far from Manila (just love that place). 230 passengers on a 767, so NO access to Medlink. HK typhoon on the way, and weather pretty bad. Manila...typhoon very close, weather really bad.

What's your choice?

Captains Call...

Kirk via Spock: "the lives of many....."

 

[cambriamarsh]

So does Dr Donald Mallard (Ducky)

So did James Strong.

 

[drron]

And so do I.

 

[ajd]

I'm not aware of any official body conferring the title to dentists, it's a social grace given to dentists as it is a social grace given to a non-PhD doctor (AFAIK or am aware). Our closest claim to being a doctor is the fact we teach people how to brush.... On the flip side we do treat and heal patients, the disease and conditions we work with may not be as sever or significant as what many medical doctors deal with, it is still a fact that shouldn't be lost in the argument between doctors and dentists and who is or isn't superior. There is a field in which medical doctors and dentists overlap but mostly we deal with two completely different fields of work that aren't really comparable IMO in regards to the general practice area.

The Dental Board of Australia has a fact sheet on this: http://www.dentalboard.gov.au/docum.../9309&dbid=AP&chksum=O3NS9It3zKKvSQTcXJFoGw== As you say, there aren't any bodies that officially confer the title in Australia, but it's illegal to use the title in a way that falsely implies a health practitioner registration which you don't actually hold, so I suppose a dentist can't get a job working at at a GP's office and continue to use the title Dr (as unlikely as that situation is).

 

[QF WP]

Our closest claim to being a doctor is the fact we teach people how to brush.... On the flip side we do treat and heal patients, the disease and conditions we work with may not be as sever or significant as what many medical doctors deal with, it is still a fact that shouldn't be lost in the argument between doctors and dentists and who is or isn't superior. There is a field in which medical doctors and dentists overlap but mostly we deal with two completely different fields of work that aren't really comparable IMO in regards to the general practice area.

I'll disagree with you there, I think there is a more signifiant overlap than there was 10 years ago. As a professional with many dentists as clients (back to year of UQ 1969 graduates IIRC), I have a modest working knowledge of the industry. Your profession now checks patients (often presenting with pain management issues) for jaw misalignment , tongue and mouth cancers and other oral-based issues that are treated by the dentist (or referred to the appropriate doctor or specialist when they aren't).

 

[JohnM]

So did James Strong.

Certainly. I was only repeating the old joke seeing that the cartoonist had cleverly incorporated it into the cartoon.