"Free" classic flight actually costs $1000 more - and no one knows why?

[mannej]

Perhaps i wasn't clear. I have only found the anomaly with International flights.


My comparison is valid in that I compared the identical set of International flights. ( BNE-MNL-BNE) Same dates, same class, same flights. please read it with a careful eye vis

option A was best cash flights..... showing an outbound leg costing circa $500

Option B was same flights, cash out, classic return ... showing an outbound leg costing circa $1500

Option C was same flights - but outbound one way only. ... showing an outbound leg costing circa $600



I hope this is clearer?

You have not understood me - ofcourse you will only find this anomoly with International Fares.

Domestic fares are all priced as one-way fares, so it will not affect the pricing either way.

That being the case, you cannot use the domestic situation as an argument to suit your international fare case as they price differently and are under different fare rules.

There are those here who want to apply the obscure rules and say I should give up. But we have Lawa of fair Trading and this bends them all out of shape.

I don't see the case QF would have to answer here if it were put to the "Laws of Fair Trading"?

 

[GaryBne]

crikey - forget about the domestic flights. Im sorry I mentioned them. leave that totally aside and start afresh please:


Why is a one way fare $600 but the same seat , combined with a classic award now costing $1500 ? Thats not an "award" in any reading of the word.


If a company offers an incentive with one hand , but when you come to claim the incentive, there is a "hidden" fee of $1000 which no employee can explain nor can they get the system to overcome .. then its not "fair"

for example: If Coles offer 4cpl off Shell petrol, but when you get to Shell there is an 8cpl administration fee for using the discount voucher is that fair? Even if it was legal deep in the fine print, is it acceptable conduct?

I'll now look up the ACCC laws for you - please standby

 

[eastwest101]

for example: If Coles offer 4cpl off Shell petrol, but when you get to Shell there is an 8cpl administration fee for using the discount voucher is that fair? Even if it was legal deep in the fine print, is it acceptable conduct?

I'll now look up the ACCC laws for you - please standby

That would be up to the ACCC to decide, or possibly a state based office of fair trading? Anyway - if someone ever does refer this to them we may find out, until then we would be guessing a bit. But I imagine it would take a while.

At the end of the day I think QF may be within the law as they are disclosing the prices in points and $$ to the customer for the various flights, thats not to say that the pricing isn't opaque/illogical but there is nothing against the law to have opaque/illogical pricing displayed, as long as the opaque/illogical pricing is clearly displayed to the customer.

Logic may say that if you ring up and ask for what you want over the phone because the web site cannot do what you want and QF do it ,then it is just a design fault or bug in the booking system, if they refuse to book what you want over the phone then it can only be that the fault/bug is intentional or their policies in this area are intentional.

 

[GaryBne]

My first thought was that you have hit a web engine error - the test for this, unless its a system wide error would be to get a telephone based quote - if its the same price +- a bit then its probably real despite how ridiculous it appears. If it were me, and given you have a lot of good info now on price for booking single legs, I'd book as two separate legs, one out, one in, and try to find a method to get around the ridiculous present CC in 2 days problem (like using a travel booking site).... if that didn't work then I'd almost certainly just use a different airline to return ... I've done that before when things simply became too hard.

yes,, wise advice but ...

1 its not a web engine error RES staff can replicate it in their office...

2 And, in todays example, the MNL_BNE leg was the leg where I could find the classic rewards ticket. So expedia etc isn't an option. ( they only take $ not QFFpoints LOL)

and booking one way out and a separate classic return is viable ... except... I cant present my credit card within two business days.

can you now see the catch 22? heavy sigh followed by sarcastic smile They just don't want me to use my points - just pay cash. Which makes the incentive scheme useless ( in these particular circumstances)

( ladies and gents - there is more to this story - I am presenting the distilled version here )

 

[mannej]

Qf are not offering an incentive to use Points one leg, cash the other leg. They are just offering the option.

I don't believe that the Fuel docket example you have used is valid in this case.

 

[Moopere]

yes,, wise advice but ...

1 its not a web engine error RES staff can replicate it in their office...

*nod*

2 And, in todays example, the MNL_BNE leg was the leg where I could find the classic rewards ticket. So expedia etc isn't an option. ( they only take $ not QFFpoints LOL)

and booking one way out and a separate classic return is viable ... except... I cant present my credit card within two business days.

can you now see the catch 22? heavy sigh followed by sarcastic smile

Ahh, yes, sorry, I missed that, I thought the classic was BNE-MNL. Given the ridiculousness of having to present your ID in person at the MNL office for a points only reward flight, yes, I share your heavy sigh.

They just don't want me to use my points - just pay cash. Which makes the incentive scheme useless ( in these particular circumstances)

Understand. There are 'shortest way between two points' answers in this thread as well as suggestions for 'upholding the right'. There are probably other OW airlines which might allow you to use QFF points to book the reward flight out of MNL without checking ID ... I'd have to check, but granted this is not as easy as using the scheme you are actually with and raises the point you make about offering a 'reward' that, on face value, looks a bit iffy. I understand the point you are making.

 

[GaryBne]

Well, exactly two months later we have an answer.

No one in Reservations, including supervisors and higher. No on if FF and no one in Customer Care, actually cared or listened enough to fix this. Some, only some, admitted that it made no sense at all and that there must be a programming error.


So a formal, registered letter to AJ plus a further three weeks later and QF have reportedly fixed the problem. ( but have not paid me for my costs .. that argument continues)

A call today plus the following email ( in part)

Dear Mr garybne

Thank you for speaking with me about your recent experience with Qantas on-line.

I would like to apologise for the inconvenience caused when you made a booking on-line, I can confirm there was an issue with the fare filing which was preventing you from selecting a Classic Award marginal fare option on the outbound (Brisbane to Manila) with a cheaper Commercial fare option other than 'Flex' on the inbound (Manila to Brisbane)
Your concerns have been brought to the attention of senior management and the fares have been re-filed in order to combine any Commercial fare with a Classic Award marginal fare.
.....

Thank you again for bringing this matter to our attention and hope you and your family have a pleasant journey.

Kind regards
AL
Executive Relations
Customer Journey Management



Bottom line - the programmers / IT had set it up so that if you bought a classic, you got the most expensive return flight. Thus making your choice of a Classic reward a decision that cost $1000 more than just paying all cash.

just stupid and a lack of quality control

This is now the 3rd significant IT shortcoming that has cost me, and that took tenacity to find someone who 'gets it " and fixes it.


But today QF announces that call centres are to be trimmed - pushing more of us into online bookings .. and system without adequate quality controls in place

heavy sigh

 

[OzEire]

Many thanks go to GaryBNE for getting to the bottom of this one.

I will admit I came up against the same issue with a recent booking; but unlike Gary, I accepted it and just decided to take the 'cheaper' cash fare as the price of the ticket...

... however, as QF forced me to abandon using points for part of a QF booking I took the logical next step and shopped around. Guess what? I ended up spending my cash with a competitor.

Nice work Gary, I think you have found another short sighted QF business decision (limiting mixed award and cash fares) that would have driven business away from QF.

OzE

 

[SydneySwan]

I have only just come across this thread. I congratulate you GaryBne on your persistence for getting to the bottom of this and hopefully QF are big enough to recompense you as well.

 

[Mark3000]

very, very impressive effort GaryBne!! Who would have thought that one person could get Qantas to change their IT system
Well done, awesome performance and something that will potentially help lots of us one day

 

[GaryBne]

Yipee! I just tested it. Not properly – just a single example, but the on line booking worked as it should vis: on the page which shows all available flights and seat choices for outbound and return, clicking on Classic for one leg leaves the other leg at the same $price – not $1000 more.

Thank you for your kind words above. I hadn’t thought that the fault would have sent loyal QF customers shopping to a different airline - good point OzEire. Imp more the kind of guy to stay and get justice.

Occasionally I get grumpy enough and unlike others I get determined to write the wrongs (step aside Don Quixote and Robin Hood). What bugs me the most is staff who are looking at the same mistake as I see and refuse to admit it. What comes second is the staff who, to varying degrees, admit it doesn’t make sense yet fail to do anything about it.

This is now the 3[SUP]rd[/SUP] IT shortcoming I fixed in the last 3 years. The others were when points for flying Jetstar with a Plus package added, never made it to my account. When I flew with family they got points. I worked out what was happening: my booking looked perfect, but the ticket was picking up my passport number in preference to my FF number - the programmers had only allowed for ONE number to be present . Six months later, many many calls and a written submission with screen shots and I now see the system has changed ( with lazy programing - you have to re input your FF number rather than picking it up from profile>) .. though I am still am owed points, it is fixed for those who follow.

Getting points from Optus was equally painful. The promotion gives Optus customers 2 points per $1 spend, but only 1 point for Optus business accounts. So it was well known by the programmers that there were two categories of Optus customers. Some IT genius set up a data matching - linking my Optus business account with my QFF number. But they also included a data check: “name” on Optus account had to match “name” on QFF account. – of course for a business the two names will never match! Eg "Mr GaryBNE" vs “Gary’s Plumbing pty ltd” That's not only dumb programming but of course there should have been a huge data rejection report when the matching failed - which I guess was ignored. So we have a nasty combination of dumb followed by lazy. That took 4 months and 3 days for me to work out the fault and get them to fix it. And I am still owed points - again!

Why me and not employees doing their job I don’t know. ( can I nominate for employee of the month?)


On this latest issue, I was kindly offered X points as a goodwill gesture. That means that they STILL didn’t read my detailed submission which showed that my “damages” was that, due to the error they finally fixed yesterday, I missed out on booking MASA “X” airfares - that I now calculate cost me 1.5 X in points more than it should have. So despite the “goodwill” offering I am, yet again, short by thousands of points.

Truth be told the dollar value of the missing points is a about one night in a decent hotel But the principal P’s me off – so I am determined to get not only damages paid but I want compensation ( or employee of the month award)


The last time I went this “insane” ( yes wasting this much time is indeed crazy) I fought the unjust application of a Law. It took 4 years, a Senate Inquiry and an amendment to an Act of Parliament: but 324 Australians had an unjust Criminal record quashed. ( I wasn’t one of them, and no I wasn’t working on it every day for 4 years either!)

Has anyone got a white horse I can borrow? sigh

 

[basso]

Bottom line - the programmers / IT had set it up so that if you bought a classic, you got the most expensive return flight. Thus making your choice of a Classic reward a decision that cost $1000 more than just paying all cash.

Bottom line, the fares were set up incorrectly. I will wager that the issue had nothing whatsoever to do with programmers. But perhaps you haven't got a clue what is meant by fare filing - but it is not something a programmer would get involved in.

 

[GaryBne]

Ok fair enough. when I leaned programming it was in cobol with punch cards ..

Lets change "programmers" to .. what do you suggest? data loaders? fare filers?

My real point is a person in front of a screen at a high level of administration made a dumb decision ... and no one checked it ... and when employees at supervisor and above could see it was wrong, they did nothing about it. Or if they did point out the error they were ignored.

Making a mistake is ok by me. I like mistakes: I must, because I make plenty. What I dont forgive is failing to fix the mistake.

 

[RooFlyer]

Just found this thread and issue, following link from the ACA 'victory' thread. Well done and thank you GaryBne for persevering.

And the naysayers above may wish to chime in here too.