General Coronavirus chit chat thread - non-travel specific

[Pushka]

And a 5th in Tasmania, I think also from the ship.

Meanwhile, in other news, Tas Greens Senator Wish-Wilson is holed up in his shack on the east coast of Tas.

Angry locals say a Tasmanian politician staying at his East Coast shack “sends the wrong message” to Tasmanians and is “beyond disappointing”.

Apparently moved there a month ago, before restrictions, but its not his primary residence. Politicians are also exempt from the quarantine period after coming back from interstate, so after he attended Canberra last week, he's been freely moving around his east coast town. So he claims to be not in breach of any rules. But I think its still poor on several fronts. I intended to self isolate on my return home from o/s before they brought in the compulsion to do so (posted on AFF at the time), so maybe he could have showed some empathy for the 'common-folk' who do have to be quarantined and just kept a low profile, instead of being sighted in shops and on the beach.

I see no reason why politicians should be exempted from self or hotel isolation on return from the state; Federal Parliament isn't expected to meet in the near future and only a few of the pollies are attending. In Wish-Wilson's case, its clear he isn't visiting his state-wide constituents while at his shack.

Well, like I said. I'm not sure this isolation from other properties works. We didn't go down to our very isolated river shack and stayed here as per the advice. And have been inundated by other Adelaidians coming to the area for exercise. And let's face it, if regional people developed significant complications they'd be transported to major public hospitals anyway. Going to your own shack does not have to flout the self isolation restrictions.

 

[Pushka]

Fair point but..... yesterday a friend's sister left her quarantine hotel in Sydney. She lives in Scone in NSW about 200kms away. Her journey was train to Central Station in Sydney - train to Maitland - train to Scone - taxi to home. Journey took 6+ hours. No quarantine required in Scone.

That journey is similar to the plane journey you described swapping planes for trains and airports for stations.

So a long journey within a state is permitted without facing any additional quarantine measures. However if you pop over a state boundary you face various quarantine / self-isolation / permission requirements. The risk is surely in the journey you make not whether you pass over a line on the map. And if you have just served two weeks quarantine I imagine you are a lower risk to others than if you had been going to supermarkets, petrol stations, commuting, etc, anywhere in Australia.

Just my observations. I am not saying anyone is right or wrong.

But she stayed in New South Wales. Same state. Different states have different rules. In SA we can have gatherings up to 10 people. NSW can't. If NSW had concerns about intrastate travel then they should change their restrictions.

 

[nutwood]

The whole State border thing is a schmozzle IMHO. On top of it, some businesses have started adding in their own site rules. On my last trip to SA, I was refused entry to a site because I hadn't been in SA for the last fourteen days. I could have spent the last two weeks touring the Barossa, no problem. I understand the logic, in that borders are a pre-existing, defined boundary but common sense also needs to be applied.
I know of someone who has to perform one day's work on a particular site. I'll keep it vague because of CIC, but they live in State A. The job is in State B. The nature of the work is that it's part of a larger contract, so they are virtually locked in. They travel to State B; fourteen days quarantine. They can get essential service exemption in State B but site rules still prevail. They do one day's work and travel home to start another fourteen days quarantine in State A. They are driving from their low risk location to site. Twenty nine days plus driving time, sacrificed to do one day's work and retain a client.

 

[Pushka]

The whole State border thing is a schmozzle IMHO. On top of it, some businesses have started adding in their own site rules. On my last trip to SA, I was refused entry to a site because I hadn't been in SA for the last fourteen days. I could have spent the last two weeks touring the Barossa, no problem. I understand the logic, in that borders are a pre-existing, defined boundary but common sense also needs to be applied.
I know of someone who has to perform one day's work on a particular site. I'll keep it vague because of CIC, but they live in State A. The job is in State B. The nature of the work is that it's part of a larger contract, so they are virtually locked in. They travel to State B; fourteen days quarantine. They can get essential service exemption in State B but site rules still prevail. They do one day's work and travel home to start another fourteen days quarantine in State A. They are driving from their low risk location to site. Twenty nine days plus driving time, sacrificed to do one day's work and retain a client.

I thought Barossa had been locked down from the rest of the state as well because of their cluster. Although you may have just been using that as an example only.

 

[RooFlyer]

Going to your own shack does not have to flout the self isolation restrictions.

In Tas, the main reason for the 'don't go to your shack over Easter' has been that the shack areas are mainly inhabited by retirees - the older age bracket, and there's currently no virus cases. That's certainly the case where I live, and the east coast of Tas in general. They don't want a flood of people from cities possibly bringing cases into these communities - they would be mixing in the local shops, for instance, and buying fuel. Usually during Easter here, shackies outnumber the locals by maybe 10 to 1.

Could easily be argued to be low risk, with social distancing etc, put persoanlly I'm happy with the rule, and that its been largely obeyed.

Now, semi-permanently relocating to your shack well before now, which is what I think you wanted to do, seems reasonable to me, but it seems that bird had flown.

 

[drron]

Well having flown into Tassie as an essential worker just 6 days ago I had to sign a form saying I would self isolate for 14 days with the only trips to the hospital for work.These are my conditions.
.

As you can see I am not allowed to visit shops and MUST wear a mask.Why isn't the Senator bound by the same conditions?
I have been in self isolation for 4 weeks before coming to Tassie.the Senator though has a possible exposure to the virus with at least 1 Senator testing positive to the virus.
On top of that he has a wife and 2 children-could he possibly exposing them to the virus?Did he even think about that?
Senator Peter Whish-Wilson Tasmanian cretin of the day.

 

[SydneySwan]

I have limited medical knowledge but understand that COVID-19 itself is agnostic. It takes no account as to whether you have been issued with an exemption but will take every opportunity to infect you regardless.

 

[drron]

I have limited medical knowledge but understand that COVID-19 itself is agnostic. It takes no account as to whether you have been issued with an exemption but will take every opportunity to infect you regardless.

But my exemption is only to enter Tasmania and then into mandatory isolation.The virus also doesn't distinguish between politicians and the hoi polloi so my point is the Senator should be subject to the same conditions as I am.

 

[SydneySwan]

But my exemption is only to enter Tasmania and then into mandatory isolation.The virus also doesn't distinguish between politicians and the hoi polloi so my point is the Senator should be subject to the same conditions as I am.

Yes I agree. Actually I would argue that the Senator should be subject to harsher conditions than yourself as you are assisting the medical emergency and he isn't.

The virus doesn't distinguish between the hoi polloi of which I am a fully paid-up member and absolutely anyone else, politicians included.

 

[nutwood]

I thought Barossa had been locked down from the rest of the state as well because of their cluster. Although you may have just been using that as an example only.

The timing of this was that SA was still open (just) and the Barossa cluster was on the news. It seemed bizarre to me that I was persona non-grata because I came from Tasmania but no questions were being asked about where in SA others had come from.
This whole domestic quarantine thing should be being handled competently at a federal level (OK- oxymoron alert registered), with the country being considered as a whole.
A day of brainstorming and another couple to put it together and the whole country could be segmented along logical, enforceable lines. Each segment classified according to risk and inter segment travel controlled accordingly. Interestingly, this is sort of evolving anyway, driven by the various State Governments, but the local approach is leading to inconsistencies that are very frustrating to those involved with them. I'm watching the last six years of building a business happily dissolving away because my competition are not subject to the restrictions that I am. No doubt others are in a similar position. Stimulus payments (yet to see one!), do not make up for the loss of a client base.

 

[nutwood]

How are the police meant to know that this is a harmless activity unless they "engage"? Your comments harbour a common theme. I understand your desire to protect the person, but you do not (and I expect can not) explain how things actually work. You are assessing a situation with hindsight - as most people do from their armchairs - so how exactly do you think that the police should be able to assess these situations without " engaging"? Do you understand that by pushing the limits of interpretation of what is acceptable that you are one of the few that is making the whole success of Australia's battle that much harder? We, as a nation, are attempting a soft lockdown that gives the medical people and all of us a glimmer of hope. They do this despite the resistance of such people as you that make the whole thing so much harder

Depressing to reach the stage of "such people as you" in a general discussion. For the record, I am invariably polite to police and do not wash my car late at night, or any other time for that matter!
In the example in question, I refer back to my original response. One person, washing his car late at night. What exactly is there to assess? A legal activity, with negligible risk of spreading a virus. Considered in more general terms, which I think you are alluding to, I think my concern is based on the the use of on the spot fines in this situation.
On the spot fines are generally used in situations where there's very little room for doubt. You give someone an on the spot fine for a traffic offence because it's generally black and white. In this instance, they've introduced brand new laws, with a bunch of ambiguous exceptions, and then sent the police in to enforce them with on the spot fines. They're essentially using the on the spot fine system to pervert the legal system.
I totally understand the reasoning, but I also think it is important to recognise and discuss what is going on here. It's so very easy to slip down the "end justifies the means" path. I strongly suspect that not one of the fines issued would stand up in court against vigorous defence. There are so many loop holes that a competent defense could exploit. Obviously the intent is to slap the population into obedience, quickly and efficiently, but it's very easy for these tactics to slip into general use.

 

[drron]

And then there are the super snoops who need a reality check.
.

Well I don't wear a uniform when I drive to the hospital you idiot.
And left outside an elderly women's home after her daughter delivered her groceries.
.
A definite lack of humanity.

 

[get me outta here]

“We need to live restricted lives for at least six months – police-enforced lockdowns are unnecessary”.

I agree with Peter Collignon: (Peter Collignon is a professor of infectious disease at Australian National Univeristy Medical School).

“People who sit on a park bench to have a rest or just watching the scenery are now threatened with fines or arrest in NSW and Victoria.

These overzealous new laws also give out a poor and very mixed message. If it’s deemed reasonably safe to be two metres apart in supermarkets and workplaces, how can this be wrong for people outdoors in our parks, beaches or in the countryside? What we need enforced is not people sitting on benches but these important distancing rules plus stopping groups from gathering – not a complete lockdown.

I hope NSW and Victoria can be persuaded to relax on their overzealous restrictions so recently and unnecessarily put in place.“

We need to live restricted lives for at least six months – police enforced lockdowns are unnecessary | Peter Collignon

There is no evidence to support the over the top laws put in place in NSW and Victoria in response to the coronavirus

www.theguardian.com

How are the police meant to know that this is a harmless activity unless they "engage"? Your comments harbour a common theme. I understand your desire to protect the person, but you do not (and I expect can not) explain how things actually work. You are assessing a situation with hindsight - as most people do from their armchairs - so how exactly do you think that the police should be able to assess these situations without " engaging"? Do you understand that by pushing the limits of interpretation of what is acceptable that you are one of the few that is making the whole success of Australia's battle that much harder? We, as a nation, are attempting a soft lockdown that gives the medical people and all of us a glimmer of hope. They do this despite the resistance of such people as you that make the whole thing so much harder

 

[RooFlyer]

I agree with Peter Collignon: (Peter Collignon is a professor of infectious disease at Australian National Univeristy Medical School).

“People who sit on a park bench to have a rest or just watching the scenery are now threatened with fines or arrest in NSW and Victoria.

These overzealous new laws also give out a poor and very mixed message.

While I admire the good Professor, haven't all of those 'overzealous' cases been overturned/dropped? The kebab guy, the carwash guy, even the 'raid' on Rushcutters Bay park that attracted so much attention have all been dropped/conceded as too much by the government.

And then there are the super snoops who need a reality check.

Was that note directed at you drron? I notice they refer to the 'NHS'.

 

[Pushka]

And then there are the super snoops who need a reality check.
View attachment 213922.

Well I don't wear a uniform when I drive to the hospital you idiot.
And left outside an elderly women's home after her daughter delivered her groceries.
View attachment 213933.
A definite lack of humanity.

Such people need to be advised of Scott Morrison's comment. If you can still work and can ensure social distancing then you are an essential Service.
As for the note left for the elderly lady. I have no words. Unforgivable. Hope social media blasts her

 

[drron]

Both notes from twitter-first from the UK second from Australia.

 

[get me outta here]

Some overturned, at least a few we hear about. Qld has apparently raised huge amounts of money from fines.
But it’s also the divisive message that’s being sent, the negativity of it all results in those nasty unfortunate notes saying we are dobbing you in for not allowing your mother starve to death.

While I admire the good Professor, haven't all of those 'overzealous' cases been overturned/dropped? The kebab guy, the carwash guy, even the 'raid' on Rushcutters Bay park that attracted so much attention have all been dropped/conceded as too much by the government.



Was that note directed at you drron? I notice they refer to the 'NHS'.

 

[Flashback]

Don't people know what it means when they say groups of no more than 2 and with that 2, just people from one household? They're not exercising either.... I fear all parks will be closed here after the weekend as the weather is only going to get nicer and more people will flaunt the rules.

 

[TheRealTMA]

And then there are the super snoops who need a reality check.
View attachment 213922.

Well I don't wear a uniform when I drive to the hospital you idiot.
And left outside an elderly women's home after her daughter delivered her groceries.
View attachment 213933.
A definite lack of humanity.

Yes while I agree with the sentiments, these are internet or twitter unverified memes from UK, not actually anything have received. I don’t see the point in exacerbating the situation in Tas?

 

[PineappleSkip]

But if these people now travel back to their interstate homes, they'll be subject to local quarantine? In Tasmania, that's fourteen days locked up in a hotel!

Article here from Fairfax talks about quarantinees returning from SYD to WA. Apparently they have 24 hours to get home after release or they get a further bout of quarantine. Practical problem is the next flight to WA is in nearly two weeks! Similar problem for returnees from Perth and Rotto, although NSW and Vic don’t have a quarantine of course.

Not sure what happens to returnees to Qld, there was an exemption for residents of Qld returning, except from hotspots. And of course about Wednesday Qld declared most of Sydney a hotspot!

cheers skip