General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[Gavros333]

Has anyone read the Pfizer document that was ordered to be released by court order? The first in a series of documents to be released on their vaccine, documents that Pfizer originally did not want to be made public for decades. As someone who has had the Pfizer injection, this makes makes me question any further jabs..

What do others make of it? Will be interesting to see what else they'll be releasing over the coming months.

 

[CaptainCurtis]

Has anyone read the Pfizer document that was ordered to be released by court order? The first in a series of documents to be released on their vaccine, documents that Pfizer originally did not want to be made public for decades. As someone who has had the Pfizer injection, this makes makes me question any further jabs..

What do others make of it? Will be interesting to see what else they'll be releasing over the coming months.

Curious to know where this was released? Following with interest.

 

[Gavros333]

Curious to know where this was released? Following with interest.

So most are probably aware that a Freedom of Information request was granted last year for Pfizer and The FDA to release data on the vaccine?

‘Paramount importance’: Judge orders FDA to hasten release of Pfizer vaccine docs

The organisation which initiated this has released the first set of documentation under the FOI request, which is the PDF attachment on my last post.

I'm still trying to go through it with an unbiased view so was wondering if others had seen it.

 

[drron]

This has been a long time coming. Many in the medical profession have been urging for this to happen for over a year. It is essential that it be done.
Unfortunately Pfizer did a deal with the CDC to slowly release all the data on it's vaccine trials over 75 years. This was taken to court and they must now release it within 12 months. doesn't engender confidence in Pfizer.

Pittman's ruling requires the FDA to start producing documents at an expedited pace — more than 12,000 pages before Jan. 31. That timeline is also in line with the agency's proposal. But deviating sharply from the FDA's desired timeline, the judge ordered the agency to "produce the remaining documents at a rate of 55,000 pages every 30 days, with the first production being due on or before March 1, 2022, until production is complete."

Judge scraps 75-year FDA timeline to release Pfizer vaccine safety data, giving agency eight months

The Food and Drug Administration won't have 75 years to release thousands of pages of documents it relied on to license its COVID-19 vaccine. Instead, the federal agency will have

denvergazette.com

 

[CaptainCurtis]

I'm still trying to go through it with an unbiased view so was wondering if others had seen it.

This has been a long time coming. Many in the medical profession have been urging for this to happen for over a year. It is essential that it be done.

I'm somewhat biased, but here are my (non-medical) thoughts after reading through the document.

My understanding is that one of the main issues with Pfizer, and the mRNA vaccines more generally, is the risk of pericarditis or myocarditis, particularly in young men. Nov, given my experience, this was the first thing I looked for in the document. Interestingly, both pericarditis and myocarditis are reported under the immune-mediated/autoimmune category. I would be interested to know why this is the case, and why these would not be reported under the cardiovascular category. Out of a sample size of 42,086, there were 32 reports of pericarditis and 25 reports of myocarditis - 0.076% and 0.059% respectively. I would be interested to know how this compares to more recent studies, as I have not stayed up-to-date with the studies.

Now if you jump to the cardiovascular section, the most commonly reported issue was tachycardia, with 1,098 reports (2.6%). I appreciate that tachycardia is somewhat non-specific and that it can be caused by a number of other illnesses or its own symptom. This may be symantics, but my understanding that tachycardia falls within the umbrella definition of an arrhythmia, the latter of which has been reported occasionally as a side effect post vaccination. However, the pericarditis and myocarditis issues appear to have attracted the most attention (albeit still insufficient in my opinion). This has me somewhat confused, given the incidence (at least on this Pfizer document) of tachycardia is 34 to 44 times more likely than pericarditis and myocarditis respectively. The TGAs weekly safety report makes no reference to arrhythmias,

The governments vaccine side effects scheme only recognises pericarditis and myocarditis. The Product Information document makes reference to pericarditis and myocarditis (interestingly, under the cardiac category this time), but no reference to arrhythmias (including tachycardias). The governments vaccine claims scheme will not pay compensation for arrhythmias, only pericarditis or myocarditis. None of this makes sense to me.

Tachycardia has been one of my on-going and lingering symptoms since my pericarditis diagnosis. My specialists all agree it is due to my vaccine, but it has been 'diagnosed' variously as inappropriate sinus tachycardia, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome and a symptom of pericarditis. The distinction may be somewhat irrelevant given the treatment is largely the same for all of them, but I remain surprised that this arrrhythmia side of things is not getting spoken about. I saw a cardiology professor yesterday, and he mentioned that a major Sydney hospital is seeing 3-5 patients a week with tachycardia post vaccination that cannot be attributed to pericarditis or myocarditis.

I look forward to further documents being released.

 

[Gavros333]

I'm somewhat biased, but here are my (non-medical) thoughts after reading through the document.

My understanding is that one of the main issues with Pfizer, and the mRNA vaccines more generally, is the risk of pericarditis or myocarditis, particularly in young men. Nov, given my experience, this was the first thing I looked for in the document. Interestingly, both pericarditis and myocarditis are reported under the immune-mediated/autoimmune category. I would be interested to know why this is the case, and why these would not be reported under the cardiovascular category. Out of a sample size of 42,086, there were 32 reports of pericarditis and 25 reports of myocarditis - 0.076% and 0.059% respectively. I would be interested to know how this compares to more recent studies, as I have not stayed up-to-date with the studies.

Now if you jump to the cardiovascular section, the most commonly reported issue was tachycardia, with 1,098 reports (2.6%). I appreciate that tachycardia is somewhat non-specific and that it can be caused by a number of other illnesses or its own symptom. This may be symantics, but my understanding that tachycardia falls within the umbrella definition of an arrhythmia, the latter of which has been reported occasionally as a side effect post vaccination. However, the pericarditis and myocarditis issues appear to have attracted the most attention (albeit still insufficient in my opinion). This has me somewhat confused, given the incidence (at least on this Pfizer document) of tachycardia is 34 to 44 times more likely than pericarditis and myocarditis respectively. The TGAs weekly safety report makes no reference to arrhythmias,

The governments vaccine side effects scheme only recognises pericarditis and myocarditis. The Product Information document makes reference to pericarditis and myocarditis (interestingly, under the cardiac category this time), but no reference to arrhythmias (including tachycardias). The governments vaccine claims scheme will not pay compensation for arrhythmias, only pericarditis or myocarditis. None of this makes sense to me.

Tachycardia has been one of my on-going and lingering symptoms since my pericarditis diagnosis. My specialists all agree it is due to my vaccine, but it has been 'diagnosed' variously as inappropriate sinus tachycardia, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome and a symptom of pericarditis. The distinction may be somewhat irrelevant given the treatment is largely the same for all of them, but I remain surprised that this arrrhythmia side of things is not getting spoken about. I saw a cardiology professor yesterday, and he mentioned that a major Sydney hospital is seeing 3-5 patients a week with tachycardia post vaccination that cannot be attributed to pericarditis or myocarditis.

I look forward to further documents being released.

Sorry to hear about your vaccine-caused pericarditis. A 35 year old friend of mine developed myocarditis after his first Pfizer dose plus another personal contact has pericarditis but the doctors refuse to link it to the vaccine with that case.
My non medical mind has so many questions, firstly why is this vaccine (plus boosters) being "forced" onto the younger population who aren't particularly at risk of severe covid? Especially when said vaccines do not stop the transmission of the virus.
It seems these adverse vaccine events are more common than we think?
No more covid shots for me

 

[CaptainCurtis]

A 35 year old friend of mine developed myocarditis after his first Pfizer dose plus another personal contact has pericarditis

It seems these adverse vaccine events are more common than we think?

I'm sorry to hear. It does seem that everyone knows someone impacted at this point. I had one somewhat comical experience during one of my emergency visits, where a young patient on my left had myocarditis and and an older lady on my right had the AZ clotting issue. Three of us in a row.

but the doctors refuse to link it to the vaccine with that case.

This is the part that frustrates me. I think acceptance of the issues are growing, but anecdotally I have had a number of specialists refuse to acknowledge my issues are vaccine-related, but the overwhelming majority have said that when you can't find another cause and the temporal connection is there, what more can you ask for. What's the saying, if it looks and walks like a duck then its probably a duck.

Transparency is needed. Bring on the next round of documents.

 

[Gavros333]

I'm sorry to hear. It does seem that everyone knows someone impacted at this point. I had one somewhat comical experience during one of my emergency visits, where a young patient on my left had myocarditis and and an older lady on my right had the AZ clotting issue. Three of us in a row.

This is the part that frustrates me. I think acceptance of the issues are growing, but anecdotally I have had a number of specialists refuse to acknowledge my issues are vaccine-related, but the overwhelming majority have said that when you can't find another cause and the temporal connection is there, what more can you ask for. What's the saying, if it looks and walks like a duck then its probably a duck.

Transparency is needed. Bring on the next round of documents.

Haha wow that's crazy, as you said, somewhat comical but shows how serious this is too!

I agree, transparency is definitely needed.

 

[drron]

I agree. There is a tendency to absolve the vaccine. The problem is there is no way to absolutely confirm the link.
What interested me in the document were several cases of the Guillain Barre syndrome. Now I had 2 patients who were proven to have the Guillain Barre syndrome within a week of receing the Pfizer vaccine but the experts wouldn't have a bar of it saying that GBS was associated with the AZ vaccine.
One of my cases was just a little OCD and documented every symptom he developed down to the time of day it developed. It began on the third day post vaccination and there were no other possible causes that could be found. Fortunately he did respond very well to treatment.

 

[Gavros333]

I agree. There is a tendency to absolve the vaccine. The problem is there is no way to absolutely confirm the link.
What interested me in the document were several cases of the Guillain Barre syndrome. Now I had 2 patients who were proven to have the Guillain Barre syndrome within a week of receing the Pfizer vaccine but the experts wouldn't have a bar of it saying that GBS was associated with the AZ vaccine.
One of my cases was just a little OCD and documented every symptom he developed down to the time of day it developed. It began on the third day post vaccination and there were no other possible causes that could be found. Fortunately he did respond very well to treatment.

Very interesting. Seeing this document and hearing other things lately has certainly opened my mind.

What I don't understand is why a fair few doctors don't seem to acknowledge these side effects. Vaccination is a blanket rule for them now, virtually impossible for people to get exemptions, etc.

Is this coming from higher up or they genuinely believe that these adverse effects aren't linked to vaccinations? The mind boggles

 

[drron]

Another study shows that if you have recovered from covid one dose of vaccine is good but second and third doses don't give any extra protection.

https://dgalerts.docguide.com/ncov-home/article/effectiveness-of-bnt162b2-vaccine-in-preventing-reinfection-in-patients-who-had-recovered-from-covid-19

 

[HappyFlyerFamily]

Haven't read the article, but to ask a basic question: would this include Omicron (which is the most mild version so far)?

 

[drron]

Haven't read the article, but to ask a basic question: would this include Omicron (which is the most mild version so far)?

Absolutely.

 

[jrfsp]

Moderna seeks US permission for second COVID-19 booster shot

Moderna seeks emergency use authorisation from US health regulators for a second COVID-19 booster shot, as a surge in cases in some parts of the world fuels fears of another wave of the pandemic.

www.abc.net.au

Moderna seeking emergency use authorisation from US health regulators for a second COVID-19 booster shot.

Whats happening with the next generation of vaccines? The continual boosting of the same vaccines doesnt seem a viable long term solution. The talk of another booster....would mean 4 in a 12 month period......on what cycle can this continue.

 

[Quickstatus]

continual boosting of the same vaccines

Basically I envisage an annual Covid-n shot adjusted for the latest variant.
Just like the flu. They could also roll it all into one.

Some evidence that J&J gives better medium term T cell immunity than the others.

Currently Mix and Match is still a very good - and mix and match includes wild covid.

 

[Quickstatus]

One of my cases was just a little OCD

I suspect some long covid are due to people fixating on all sorts of symptoms and attributing it to Covid.
Very complex area - but similar to why placebo meds cause side effects.

 

[drron]

I suspect some long covid are due to people fixating on all sorts of symptoms and attributing it to Covid.
Very complex area - but similar to why placebo meds cause side effects.

Agree but don't forget the Nocebo effect. Makes life difficult sometimes. I well remember a young adult with epilepsy who really didn't want to take drugs recommended by her neurologist. Rattled off a list of side effects with the newest drug. I thought I remembered that list. Sure enough it was the list of possible side effects in the CPI leaflet given out with the drug. And in the correct order.
I did say I suspected this wasn't actually a true list of her effects with things like diarrhoea and constipation, weight gain and loss of weight but what truly intrigued me was having a loss of sexual desire and increased libido which was just a little hard to imagine. Of course she did also complain of memory loss.

 

[mviy]

Whats happening with the next generation of vaccines?

Winter in the Northern Hemisphere is not till the end of the year. So there isn’t as much urgency as there would be if they were heading into winter.

 

[drron]

And there is no Operation warp speed with billions of Government money available so things are taking the normal time to progress ie much slower.

 

[N860CR]

Plus our vaccines are pretty much perfect, aren’t they? Given I’ve either got or recovered from it at the moment (depending on which country you’re in - amazing how that makes a difference) I can say the worst symptom was maybe a sore throat that I may have imagined when trying to justify how horrible it’s supposed to be.

We’ve gone from world ending, lock every country up pandemic to not even a scratchy throat. I’d say the vaccines are pretty damn good. What more do we want? Are we back on that eradication/covid zero train again?