General Discussion/Q&A on Coronavirus (COVID-19)

[DC3]

Oh. Back to that again

Yes. I had an idea that we had been through this previously.

So, you are not covering up for SA Health, who may well be testing only the infrastructure?

 

[Pushka]

Yes. I had an idea that we had been through this previously.

So, you are not covering up for SA Health, who may well be testing only the infrastructure?

They are testing the poop.

 

[drron]

The US is certainly going through a hard time with C19.


But it is not evenly spread.Some states have increasing infections ,some have falling rates.
It really doesn't matter what degree of lockdown a state has.Florida with a loose policy has a falling rate.NY ,NJ and CA with more severe lockdowns have increasing rates.

Coronavirus closures: Map of where US states are tightening restrictions

Throughout the pandemic, officials across the United States have rolled out a patchwork of restrictions on social distancing, masking and other aspects of public life. The orders vary by state, county and even city. At the height of restrictions in late March and early April 2020, more than 310...

www.usatoday.com

Even when you adjust for incidence per head of population the rates bear no relation to lockdown status or even the colour of the State Government.And like Australia it is mainly the State Governments who call the shots..

U.S. COVID death rate by state 2023 | Statista

As of March 2023, Arizona had the highest COVID death rate in the U.S., with 455 deaths per 100,000 population. Hawaii had the lowest death rate.

www.statista.com

Hospitality businesses are paying a huge price.
.

 

[OZDUCK]

Another senior political leader has tested positive for Covid-19 - President Macron of France.

Emmanuel Macron: Positive test prompts European leaders to self-isolate

French President Emmanuel Macron tests positive for Covid-19 after meeting other leaders recently.

www.bbc.com

 

[PLANT]

Mask up Sydney!
PM me if you want link to not your average looking mask

 

[JessicaTam]

Hey Sydney, it's going to be tough few days but I hope that is all it is. My thoughts are with you.

 

[Melburnian1]

Hey Sydney, it's going to be tough few days but I hope that is all it is. My thoughts are with you.

A stupid overreaction from other states such as Qld and Vic in relation to the latest outbreak.

They're acting like the Wild West, or Australia pre-1901. It's striking panic into millions when a more mature response would highlight that the alarmist predictions made by bureaucrats of thousands of intensive care beds being full to overflowing have never come true.

I feel sorry for all the panicked travellers queuing on smartphones to airlines, or rushing to an airport to get 'away from Sydney' (or 'back to it').

Thoughts are OK but prayers that our 'leaders' at state level will finally show some sense and not go immediately into panic mode would be better.

No doubt some voices of reason like that Chris bloke in 'The Oz' tomorrow, if he's not on hols, will have something to say.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

A stupid overreaction from other states such as Qld and Vic in relation to the latest outbreak.

They're acting like the Wild West, or Australia pre-1901. It's striking panic into millions when a more mature response would highlight that the alarmist predictions made by bureaucrats of thousands of intensive care beds being full to overflowing have never come true.

I feel sorry for all the panicked travellers queuing on smartphones to airlines, or rushing to an airport to get 'away from Sydney' (or 'back to it').

Thoughts are OK but prayers that our 'leaders' at state level will finally show some sense and not go immediately into panic mode would be better.

No doubt some voices of reason like that Chris bloke in 'The Oz' tomorrow, if he's not on hols, will have something to say.

I'm not sure it's quite as straightforward as you make out. Melbourne's second waive didn't see overflowing ICUs, but it saw hospital staff stretched to the limit and exhausted. Once hospital staff get the virus, or come into contact with someone with the virus, they need to quarantine. Taking hundreds of staff out of the system paces a huge strain on those remaining

So it's not an issue of beds. But the capacity of staff.

Many of AFF pleaded for a 'hot spot' system. Now we have it they're still complaining!

We don't want covid back in Victoria. Queensland and WA are the same. It's bad luck for those in Sydney who have been exposed. But they shouldn't be travelling, and people shouldn't be going there.

 

[Melburnian1]

I'm not sure it's quite as straightforward as you make out. Melbourne's second waive didn't see overflowing ICUs, but it saw hospital staff stretched to the limit and exhausted. Once hospital staff get the virus, or come into contact with someone with the virus, they need to quarantine. Taking hundreds of staff out of the system paces a huge strain on those remaining

So it's not an issue of beds. But the capacity of staff.

Many of AFF pleaded for a 'hot spot' system. Now we have it they're still complaining!

We don't want covid back in Victoria. Queensland and WA are the same. It's bad luck for those in Sydney who have been exposed. But they shouldn't be travelling, and people shouldn't be going there.

I'll bet London to a brick other states cannot keep it out without massively disproportionate job losses.

Pursuing a de facto 'elimination strategy' is doomed to fail, even though politicians like Gutwein in Tassie (Liberal), and the three Labor states of Qld, Vic and WA deny that's what their doing. SA had an infamous recent lockdown that was highly questionable, and embarrassing for its Liberal Premier when the facts came out.

The 'cure' is worse than the 'disease'.

In Victoria - where I have been the whole time - emergency departments were practically devoid of patients for months while draconian lockdowns were on. When I had to take someone to a public hospital, staff saw them immediately. I had to go once, and was admitted within about one minute even though my concern was almost certainly triaged at the lower end of whatever scale nurses use, compared with a previous occasion a year or two ago for a serious dental problem out of hours when I waited about three hours.

So while for a time as you suggest, some nursing and other hospital staff had to quarantine, none died to my knowledge and other departments of public hospitals were far quieter than usual.

We just can't have State Premiers shutting down borders as they have been. More will die of suicide and suffer mental illness/job loss/fewer hours worked than of the virus, which in Oz IIRC has killed either no one or hardly any under the age of 70.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I'll bet London to a brick other states cannot keep it out without massively disproportionate job losses.

Pursuing a de facto 'elimination strategy' is doomed to fail, even though politicians like Gutwein in Tassie (Liberal), and the three Labor states of Qld, Vic and WA deny that's what their doing. SA had an infamous recent lockdown that was highly questionable, and embarrassing for its Liberal Premier when the facts came out.

The 'cure' is worse than the 'disease'.

In Victoria - where I have been the whole time - emergency departments were practically devoid of patients for months while draconian lockdowns were on. When I had to take someone to a public hospital, staff saw them immediately. I had to go once, and was admitted within about one minute even though my concern was almost certainly triaged at the lower end of whatever scale nurses use, compared with a previous occasion a year or two ago for a serious dental problem out of hours when I waited about three hours.

So while for a time as you suggest, some nursing and other hospital staff had to quarantine, none died to my knowledge and other departments of public hospitals were far quieter than usual.

We just can't have State Premiers shutting down borders as they have been. More will die of suicide and suffer mental illness/job loss/fewer hours worked than of the virus, which in Oz IIRC has killed either no one or hardly any under the age of 70.

Hospital ERs may have been quiet, but that doesn't mean staff in areas looking after covid patients weren't busy and stretched to capacity.

The last part of your argument is going back to 'health vs economics'. The majority of people appear to support the former, at least for the moment.

I'm also in Victoria. My concern is different to yours... I don't understand why it is taking so long to stop people coming from Sydney! Why midnight tonight instead of immediately? How can it be that people can be rushing to the airport to 'escape' Sydney? That seems inconsistent with containing an outbreak

 

[N860CR]

I do find it very odd that our supposedly world leading health care system (that we pay an absolute fortune to support in tax and Medicare levies) was “overrun” with what amounted to still a small number of cases on a global scale (can’t remember the worst Melbourne got to. 700?). To compare with tens of thousands a day in Europe and hundreds of thousands in the United States, there is quite a concern there.

 

[Pushka]

Hospital ERs may have been quiet, but that doesn't mean staff in areas looking after covid patients weren't busy and stretched to capacity.

The last part of your argument is going back to 'health vs economics'. The majority of people appear to support the former, at least for the moment.

I'm also in Victoria. My concern is different to yours... I don't understand why it is taking so long to stop people coming from Sydney! Why midnight tonight instead of immediately? How can it be that people can be rushing to the airport to 'escape' Sydney? That seems inconsistent with containing an outbreak

Not sure about Vic but SA hospitals are flat out because GP's are reluctant to see anyone with respiratory illness at the moment but if necessary are directed to have a test, isolate, and if in need of care go to hospital.

 

[Melburnian1]

Hospital ERs may have been quiet, but that doesn't mean staff in areas looking after covid patients weren't busy and stretched to capacity.

The last part of your argument is going back to 'health vs economics'. The majority of people appear to support the former, at least for the moment.

I'm also in Victoria. My concern is different to yours... I don't understand why it is taking so long to stop people coming from Sydney! Why midnight tonight instead of immediately? How can it be that people can be rushing to the airport to 'escape' Sydney? That seems inconsistent with containing an outbreak

A majority of people in Australia support capital punishment and a few other public policies I could mention.

That doesn't make them right.

We elect political leaders for many reasons but an ability to convince the community that what may be (initially) an unpopular stance is necessary comes in handy.

So many people in Oz are suffering economically and mentally, plus perhaps in other health-related areas, but largely it isn't from coronavirus.

While I don't agree that politicians and decision makers in Victoria ought be panicking, as they are, you're correct to highlight yet another inconsistency with timing.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Melbournian, can you please provide evidence to support your claims on capital punishment? I have found a Parliamentary study showing 52% support the death penalty for deadly acts of terrorism, but 67% are opposed for domestic murder offences. I’m not sure this is can be used to support the view that they majority’ is wrong here?

We have to also consider that for the vast majority of people there has been no economic impact from covid. And for many people, Jobkeeper and the enhanced Jobseeker was actually an economic gain.

 

[Melburnian1]

Melbournian, can you please provide evidence to support your claims on capital punishment? I have found a Parliamentary study showing 52% support the death penalty for deadly acts of terrorism, but 67% are opposed for domestic murder offences. I’m not sure this is can be used to support the view that they majority’ is wrong here?

We have to also consider that for the vast majority of people there has been no economic impact from covid. And for many people, Jobkeeper and the enhanced Jobseeker was actually an economic gain.

You omitted:

'... Swap the crime to drug offences committed overseas, and there is suddenly less opposition to capital punishment. When a January 2015 Morgan poll asked respondents: ‘In Malaysia, Sri Lanka, Indonesia, Singapore and some other countries, the penalty for drug trafficking is death. If an Australian is convicted of trafficking drugs in another country and sentenced to death, in your opinion, should the penalty be carried out or not?’, 52 percent answered ‘yes’, and 48 percent ‘no’...'

I could include other more controversial areas of public policy but it's OT so that's the last I'll say about this.

For the vast majority no economic (adverse) impact from covid? Huge effect though: hundreds of thousands lost their job, others - especially young people in tourism and hospitality - had significant reductions in hours. JobKeeper just can't continue forever, and when it's reduced/abolished by April 2021 we'll see a truer picture as there are many 'life support' small businesses that may then fold. Our national GDP reduced by seven per cent in the latest quarter: we haven't been hit overall as badly as woke New Zealand, but ask someone who runs a restaurant here and they may be less sanguine.

JobKeeper, successful as it may have been, was rorted by some businesses (a union claims QF was one), and is no substitute for the satisfaction of 'real' job and contributing to a business, or on one's own, or to social goals.

Maybe ask a sacked pilot (well paid as many would suggest they are) or even better a flight attendant or baggage handler who was sacked or chose to leave whether they've suffered economically. Many never expected to suddenly lose a job that they enjoyed. We have at least one well known contributor on AFF who worked for an airline and who said it's been hard for them to find another position 'outside', and unless things have altered, they haven't yet succeeded.

 

[Pushka]

JobKeeper, successful as it may have been, was rorted by some businesses (a union claims QF was one), and is no substitute for the satisfaction of 'real' job and contributing to a business, or on one's own, or to social goals.

Because of jobkeeper we kept on our EA and she worked as much as was possible for her to do so. We kept up her normal rate of pay with it even though, through her Covid circumstances, she worked far fewer hours. Otherwise she would have had to go around July.

As you say, the real damage may be evident when JK ends.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

For the vast majority no economic (adverse) impact from covid? Huge effect though: hundreds of thousands lost their job, others - especially young people in tourism and hospitality - had significant reductions in hours. JobKeeper just can't continue forever, and when it's reduced/abolished by April 2021 we'll see a truer picture as there are many 'life support' small businesses that may then fold. Our national GDP reduced by seven per cent in the latest quarter: we haven't been hit overall as badly as woke New Zealand, but ask someone who runs a restaurant here and they may be less sanguine.

JobKeeper, successful as it may have been, was rorted by some businesses (a union claims QF was one), and is no substitute for the satisfaction of 'real' job and contributing to a business, or on one's own, or to social goals.

Maybe ask a sacked pilot (well paid as many would suggest they are) or even better a flight attendant or baggage handler who was sacked or chose to leave whether they've suffered economically. Many never expected to suddenly lose a job that they enjoyed. We have at least one well known contributor on AFF who worked for an airline and who said it's been hard for them to find another position 'outside', and unless things have altered, they haven't yet succeeded.

I agree, and I'm not saying that there isn't hardship out there. And I'm not saying people still with jobs aren't extremely grateful. Unfortunately some businesses were struggling before covid, this was the final straw

 

[PLANT]

I'm calling it now, third wave lock down here we come! Get your masks on people! Still no source found #Americanairlinecrew

 

[moa999]

NSW has shown an ability to get into of outbreaks.
Slightly poor behavior from some of the other states (especially Vic).

That said, given this article, does seem like a super spreader of this strain

Coronavirus NSW: Sydney tradie tests positive after visiting two Avalon venues

 

[drron]

NSW has shown an ability to get into of outbreaks.
Slightly poor behavior from some of the other states (especially Vic).

That said, given this article, does seem like a super spreader of this strain

Coronavirus NSW: Sydney tradie tests positive after visiting two Avalon venues

Though that article may explain how the virus spread. The fellow was sitting close to the band. The band had a positive case, Singing can spread the aerosol further. So the singer may well be the spreader.